::LAGUNA RACE 09::

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 7 2009, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But Roger, just because he wins is he not allowed to be critical of the bike or whatnot?

People can win races when something is not 100%, be that tyres, setup etc and they should be able to say that things were wrong.

As for the posturing or gesticulating I really say who cares as it would seem that the team do like having him there and it is possible that the gesticulating works in his favour. I have seen many riders do it over the years and many do it today, no problem as the team get the message and then try their best to rectify the issue.




But when Stoner says things people doubt him, it surely cannot be both ways where one says the truth and a second outright fabrications.

Despite many, Stoner has complimented the bike upon finishing down positions, he has complimented riders who have finished above him and he has thanked his team. He has even pulled some of the best stand-up wheelies around when finishing third so it is not correct to say that he whinges all the time.

As for Suppo, never heard the comment but you can bet that all team leaders know when their charge is in a bad mood as they all have those days.






Garry
No i dont think he should, Its disrespectfull and un grateful to his team. They help him to a win and he re pays that by publicly pointing out any petty shortfall, and they must be petty if you just won. It begs the question ,why does he feel the need to do that ? Maybe its an ego thing, not happy with winning he need's to try and prove he did it with a disadvantage or a problem to make the win look even better. I notice since motegi when he won but complained about the clutch he has been more complementary about his bike and team. maybe Suppo has had words.

Biaggi used to complain publicly about his team and bike, he got the boot, stoner is not holding as many cards to his chest as he did in 07 . ive even read here some stoner fans being pretty disappointed in him lately. Bunyip even commented on how many aussie fan's he's lost of late. all this could spell the future demise of stoners relationbship with ducati. By publicly complaining even when he wins is saying "im so ....... great and win even tho the bike is ....". hardly makes me want to rush out and buy one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 7 2009, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No i dont think he should, Its disrespectfull and un grateful to his team. They help him to a win and he re pays that by publicly pointing out any petty shortfall, and they must be petty if you just won. It begs the question ,why does he feel the need to do that ? Maybe its an ego thing, not happy with winning he need's to try and prove he did it with a disadvantage or a problem to make the win look even better. I notice since motegi when he won but complained about the clutch he has been more complementary about his bike and team. maybe Suppo has had words.

Biaggi used to complain publicly about his team and bike, he got the boot, stoner is not holding as many cards to his chest as he did in 07 . ive even read here some stoner fans being pretty disappointed in him lately. Bunyip even commented on how many aussie fan's he's lost of late. all this could spell the future demise of stoners relationbship with ducati. By publicly complaining even when he wins is saying "im so ....... great and win even tho the bike is ....". hardly makes me want to rush out and buy one.
This is complete ........ and should not be listened to. There is no problem between Casey and Ducati. Stoner just needs to get healthy right now and you need to stop starting .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 7 2009, 03:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't worry its just Rog. stirring, he thinks it gets a rise out of folk, thats how he gets his rocks off . But he does say the wackiest things at times

I agree with yur take on the garage situation, looks a great place to be, very "italian", lots of emotion, both the ups and downs.

As to Suppo/Stoner relationship, I have often thought that these two have a very comfortable understanding of each other, just watch the way Suppo and his missus greet Casey/Adrianna at any of the non-racing events they attend. Its a relationship based a tad on more than just Rog.'s couch thats for sure
Are you suggesting there wife swapping swingers ?? Damn

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 7 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is complete ........ and should not be listened to. There is no problem between Casey and Ducati. Stoner just needs to get healthy right now and you need to stop starting .........



Thanks RG. Just like I said Stoner fans behaved: "LA LA LA LA, can't hear you, can't see your, LA LA LA"
Allways nice to be proven right by the "oposition".

Absolutely hilarious that people are suggesting Stoner could get the boot because Hayden scored 1 fifth place.
Don't forget Melandri also scored a fifth place last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (heyhuub @ Jul 7 2009, 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely hilarious that people are suggesting Stoner could get the boot because Hayden scored 1 fifth place.
Don't forget Melandri also scored a fifth place last year.


Just like those that said Hayden should get the sack after his first race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (heyhuub @ Jul 7 2009, 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely hilarious that people are suggesting Stoner could get the boot because Hayden scored 1 fifth place.
Don't forget Melandri also scored a fifth place last year.
Who said stoner would get the boot because hayden got a 5th ?? That's taking my comments out of context !

How many top riders have we seen leave a team or get the boot. even rossi jumped from honda before he was pushed as was biaggi, hayden just to name a few.
The point is ,stoner could name his price and say what he liked in 07 and part way through 08 because ducati had no other choice if they wanted to look like a factory team. Things are changing though. There is now light at the end of the tunnel for ducati now. its proved that the bike development is now headed in the direction they want it. That a direction where other riders can be competitive on there bike rather than just one guy. If Hayden can ride to a 5th then maybe just maybe a rider like simoncelli could win on it.

Thats look at it like a company/team might look at pro's and con's

Pro's

He won them a wc in 07
he looks good in red
he has a hot misses

con's

he has a mistery illness that effects his performance
he had an old wrist injury that flaired up just because he was doing up his leathers so could flair up again any time.
he now complains he suffered arm pump, something we all know from experience can greatly effect performance
He complains publicly about his bike team other riders constantly and generally looks a right pain to work with.
his development skills are debatable. if the bikes developed for him,no one else can ride it. if its developed for more general use than he doesn't like it. maybe he has a weird style ?
His fan base is very local and not particularly marketable worldwide, intact i believe a lot of fans in red at the tracks are ducati fans rather than stoner fans.

now as ive said at least 3 times in this thread, im not suggesting ducati will fire him any time soon. All i said is he better start being careful !
A lot will depend on this illness and his performance and haydens future performance. ducati want winning riders , not whining sick boys.

Yeah, they want winning riders. Hayden ain't exacly one of those.

"runs and hides"

stoner is 15 points behind the leader and everyone thinks hes having a bad year hahahhaa.

hayden finally crackes it for a fith on his home track after riders in fron of him crash and he is the new #1.

hayden is supposed to developed the winning bike that pedrosa just won with, but when honda wasnt winning, everyone said pdrosa couldnt develop the bike. hahahahah

the stupidity on this forum bemuses me.


p.s 99% of development comes from the factory engineers, the rider just says yes i like it, or no i dont like it. i want this improved or that. end of development work for rider.

do you think it was stoners idea to go with a cf frame? stoner tested it along with others and they all said it was good. on the same note do you think rossi came up with the TC map hes been raving on about? NO - when given it he said it was great, he had no input into creating it, though he did have input in saying what he wanted improved along with the engineers analysis of th data

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 6 2009, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good match? What is this love conection? Just because he has tamed the wild beast doesn't mean he wants to ride it. If he had the choose you don't think he would prefer to ride a tamer bike? Lets not forget when he won the championship his bike has faster than everyone elses. But if it also rode well, he would have dominated. Stoner would be just as, if not more, competitive on the Honda or the Yamaha and he knows it. Even if you don't.

What the .... has stoner said that would infer he was happy with anything?

And I think Suppo could give two ..... for Casey.

When in good health - Stoner has dominated.

Stoner has repeatedly stated in various interviews how pleased he was by the support
from Ducati.

Please reveal any statement or link that supports your contention about Suppo. If you
can't - then really - stop talking out your ....

Things are pretty grim when I have Roger quoting me to support his arguments!

I was a bit harsh about Casey, partly because there is an element of truth and partly to see how Rog would react............took him a week to respond!

I think the truth about Casey lies between the two extremes: that on the one hand his candour is refreshing, but that there are times for him to be a bit more magnanamous, as with Laguna Seca 2008. However , I think the Rossi-fan obsession with detecting any hint of Stoner whinging is grossly overdone and has made Casey overly defensive. If Casey has become insular and paranoid, then the bulk of Rossi-obsessives have a lot to answer for. Roger and others here are vastly improved in their objectiveness these days, but you would only have to go back one to two years here to read volumes of total nonsense. I credit Jumkie with a great effort in his objectiveness lectures over the past year or two.
Unless Casey has a permanent disability that dramatically affects his performance (ps. Roger-substitute affect for effect in your posts!), his tenure at Ducati is safe. Cripes, even a debilitated Stoner is STILL way faster than the remaining Ducati pilots ffs!!
I also think many are too harsh about Casey mentioning his old wrist injury etc, as minor aches can become magnified during illness. Give him a bit of slack.
Whilst some of my friends have been disappointed with Caseys attitude over the years, I don,t think we have the power to influence Ducatis policies about Stoner!

PS: I still think a healthy Stoner is the fastest guy on the planet

I think I just realised Rog. and Babel's "modus operandii" ......... remember 07 when all the excuses in the sun came out for why Rossi was not performing? ........ do these wacky claims/fabrications about Stoner not "ring a bell" for Rossi's behaviour that year

I also note that for the past few races Stoner has patted the tank of the Duc. and publicly thanked his team, as well as acknowledged he is having fitness problems. Its just something the Rossifan's aren't used, its just plain repeateable and observable fact ....... there's no fairytale there ..... so Rog./Babel and co. can't handle it

..

?

Speak to me Jumk................

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 8 2009, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When in good health - Stoner has dominated.

Stoner has repeatedly stated in various interviews how pleased he was by the support
from Ducati.

Please reveal any statement or link that supports your contention about Suppo. If you
can't - then really - stop talking out your ....

if stoner in good health he gonna be the same as 2008 era and he gonna fall crash again... but he will behind lorenzo

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cygnus88 @ Jul 7 2009, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if stoner in good health he gonna be the same as 2008 era and he gonna fall crash again... but he will behind lorenzo

This is just poison-pen, wishful thinking on your part. Even with his health issues dogging
him - Stoner has continued to be top three in the points this year and he hasn't
crashed as much as Lorenzo. If Stoner regains his health - there's no way it's not going
to be a three-way battle to the end.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 6 2009, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay before this weekend and I watch Moaners interview on motogp, I thought there was no way he would be leaving ducati. But now I can see it happening. At the end of the interview he starts talking about Nicky's results of late. It starts with a lot of praise to the team and the new electronics, rider position, etc. But he ends it with but since then(catalunya) I haven't been able to get the results. Is this maybe a shift in ducati's priorities? The new bike seems to be helping killio and hayden, and obviously not stacy. Why would they do that unless he gave them the big .... you all ready? I mean they obviously want all there riders to succeed, but at the expense of their number 1 rider? I don't think so. So maybe its Casey that is feed up with ducati. Just because he is the only one who can ride that bike doesn't mean he wants to. Hayden and Killio next year, I can see it already.

Stoner hasn't been able to get results since Catalunya, but not b/c of the bike.

Even Casey would be quick to point out that his mystery illness is causing his results to suffer. I think his comments were a lament about his physical condition: The bike is much better, but I can't do anything with it b/c I keep getting sick.


BTW, I think Stoner's illness is related to diet and nutrition. Casey is extremely motivated and I suspect he is trying to train his way back to the front of motogp. I also think he's trying to shed another 2 or 3 pounds to take weight off of his wrist. The result is extremely low energy reserves, fever, and nausea. His symptoms also magnify any problems he is having with the bike.

No real hard evidence, just a guess.

Pinky is really a big .....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Jul 7 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner is 15 points behind the leader and everyone thinks hes having a bad year hahahhaa.

hayden finally crackes it for a fith on his home track after riders in fron of him crash and he is the new #1.

hayden is supposed to developed the winning bike that pedrosa just won with, but when honda wasnt winning, everyone said pdrosa couldnt develop the bike. hahahahah

the stupidity on this forum bemuses me.


p.s 99% of development comes from the factory engineers, the rider just says yes i like it, or no i dont like it. i want this improved or that. end of development work for rider.

do you think it was stoners idea to go with a cf frame? stoner tested it along with others and they all said it was good. on the same note do you think rossi came up with the TC map hes been raving on about? NO - when given it he said it was great, he had no input into creating it, though he did have input in saying what he wanted improved along with the engineers analysis of th data

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 8 2009, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner hasn't been able to get results since Catalunya, but not b/c of the bike.

Even Casey would be quick to point out that his mystery illness is causing his results to suffer. I think his comments were a lament about his physical condition: The bike is much better, but I can't do anything with it b/c I keep getting sick.


BTW, I think Stoner's illness is related to diet and nutrition. Casey is extremely motivated and I suspect he is trying to train his way back to the front of motogp. I also think he's trying to shed another 2 or 3 pounds to take weight off of his wrist. The result is extremely low energy reserves, fever, and nausea. His symptoms also magnify any problems he is having with the bike.

No real hard evidence, just a guess.

http://www.moto-live.com/motogp/en/headlin...706092100.shtml

…The American delighted his home crowd not only with his performance but also with a special ‘stars and stripes' livery, that will also be available on the new Ducati 848, launched in the USA two days ago.

“I have won here twice and to say that fifth place feels just as good might sound strange but man, so much hard work has gone into getting us to this point and I want to savour this feeling”, he said. “To be racing at home, to score a solid result and to have had fun out there is nice. I just want to say a huge ‘thank you' to my whole team, to Ducati and to everybody who has continued to believe in me during some difficult times this season. We have made progress over the last two races, we have kept the faith and it has paid off with this fifth place. Hopefully we can keep it going and score even better results as the season progresses.”

However, a fourth place finish for Stoner was another case of damage limitation following another physically demanding weekend. The Australian has been combating physical exhaustion and to have two races in successive weekends certainly didn't help his cause here. Stoner will now stay on in the United States for extensive tests at the Fremont Surgery Center with Dr. Arthur Ting and Dr. Tuan, to try and understand the source of the problem.

“It has been a weekend to forget. I can't be happy with fourth place even if it has limited the damage to my championship chances. Today I didn't feel as bad at the end of the race as I have done in the last two but I'm still not right”, he said. “I found it really difficult to keep my concentration over the last few laps and I was in a bit of a daze by the end. My left arm was feeling really tired by the end because of the fact there are so many left-handers here and my left wrist still doesn't have the full range of movement after my operation in the winter. I'm really disappointed because without all of these problems we could have done so much better. I want to thank the team for giving me a great bike and also Doctor Claudio Macchiagodena and our physiotherapist Freddie (Dente) for all their help. Now we'll focus on trying to find out the root of the problem because racing in this condition is not much fun”…

Stoner thanks the team, but still seems to have 2 or 3 reasons as a way out to explain his results. I mean, Lorenzo had a really bad shoulder the day before the race and just got on with it.