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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 20 2009, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Claiming that Stoner is only good for a hot lap is complete rubbish. Only since his mystery illness has this theory proven to be true.
+ 3 If he'd never been consistantly fast how could he have won so many races?
+ 3 If he'd never been consistantly fast how could he have won so many races?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bill88 @ Aug 20 2009, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no, stoner did have a much faster bike
Hi Billy, read my post carefully. I did not say his bike was slower, I said he was rarely on the fastest bike when he won. Fastest, as in the fastest bike recorded. I know because I looked it up, and Stoner was rarely, I think maybe once or twice, that his bike was fastest at the event in which he won the race. My point is faster bike deosn't men much. You will be interested to know that Barros' bike was faster than Stoner's consistently, so what does this say about 'fast'? Well it says to me that this is NOT a reliable parameter in which to judge performance advantage. Which bike was faster in turns? Answer this. This is where it really counts. The fastest bike in a straight line rarely wins. FACT! (look it up). That is right, when the fastest bike wins, this is the exception, NOT the rule.
Hi Billy, read my post carefully. I did not say his bike was slower, I said he was rarely on the fastest bike when he won. Fastest, as in the fastest bike recorded. I know because I looked it up, and Stoner was rarely, I think maybe once or twice, that his bike was fastest at the event in which he won the race. My point is faster bike deosn't men much. You will be interested to know that Barros' bike was faster than Stoner's consistently, so what does this say about 'fast'? Well it says to me that this is NOT a reliable parameter in which to judge performance advantage. Which bike was faster in turns? Answer this. This is where it really counts. The fastest bike in a straight line rarely wins. FACT! (look it up). That is right, when the fastest bike wins, this is the exception, NOT the rule.
Joined Sep 2006
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Aug 20 2009, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Motorcycle News' Matthew Birt has broken the story. Now Matt is the best reporter in that paddock
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 20 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Billy, read my post carefully. I did not say his bike was slower, I said he was rarely on the fastest bike when he won. Fastest, as in the fastest bike recorded. I know because I looked it up, and Stoner was rarely, I think maybe once or twice, that his bike was fastest at the event in which he won the race. My point is faster bike deosn't men much. You will be interested to know that Barros' bike was faster than Stoner's consistently, so what does this say about 'fast'? Well it says to me that this is NOT a reliable parameter in which to judge performance advantage. Which bike was faster in turns? Answer this. This is where it really counts. The fastest bike in a straight line rarely wins. FACT! (look it up). That is right, when the fastest bike wins, this is the exception, NOT the rule.
i agree that top speed alone is not the most important thing.. as for which bike can go faster through turns, but not as fast in the straight then it's the same, all the hard work done in the turns means nothing if you get past easily at the next straight. what is important is the lap time and then you need both.. you can do a good lap time when running alone, but in the race it is different. (for example, a guy with a ss600 can do consistently faster laps than someone else in a liter bike, but if they decide to race, all the sbk guy has to do is follow him then easily pass him and then block him.. the ss600 might be faster and its rider more talented, but he will lose due to the other guy being there, not letting him go as fast as he can. i dont watch the ama championship, but i think this is the case with the buells.. they just shouldnt race together..) anyway, i mean that if the bikes are close, as in motogp, one little difference can become a big advantage in the race. i think you get my point. in the end, rossi and his yamaha might had greater corner speed, but who would win the race? the start/finish line is in the straight, not in the corners. so, top speed and greater acceleration, can have a decisive role occassionally.
i agree that top speed alone is not the most important thing.. as for which bike can go faster through turns, but not as fast in the straight then it's the same, all the hard work done in the turns means nothing if you get past easily at the next straight. what is important is the lap time and then you need both.. you can do a good lap time when running alone, but in the race it is different. (for example, a guy with a ss600 can do consistently faster laps than someone else in a liter bike, but if they decide to race, all the sbk guy has to do is follow him then easily pass him and then block him.. the ss600 might be faster and its rider more talented, but he will lose due to the other guy being there, not letting him go as fast as he can. i dont watch the ama championship, but i think this is the case with the buells.. they just shouldnt race together..) anyway, i mean that if the bikes are close, as in motogp, one little difference can become a big advantage in the race. i think you get my point. in the end, rossi and his yamaha might had greater corner speed, but who would win the race? the start/finish line is in the straight, not in the corners. so, top speed and greater acceleration, can have a decisive role occassionally.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bill88 @ Aug 20 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i agree that top speed alone is not the most important thing.. as for which bike can go faster through turns, but not as fast in the straight then it's the same, all the hard work done in the turns means nothing if you get past easily at the next straight. what is important is the lap time and then you need both.. you can do a good lap time when running alone, but in the race it is different. (for example, a guy with a ss600 can do consistently faster laps than someone else in a liter bike, but if they decide to race, all the sbk guy has to do is follow him then easily pass him and then block him.. the ss600 might be faster and its rider more talented, but he will lose due to the other guy being there, not letting him go as fast as he can. i dont watch the ama championship, but i think this is the case with the buells.. they just shouldnt race together..) anyway, i mean that if the bikes are close, as in motogp, one little difference can become a big advantage in the race. i think you get my point. in the end, rossi and his yamaha might had greater corner speed, but who would win the race? the start/finish line is in the straight, not in the corners. so, top speed and greater acceleration, can have a decisive role occassionally.
Amen! Not that I am that religious...
Amen! Not that I am that religious...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 20 2009, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, everyone else were talking about how fast he is. After '07 he has obviously not been the faster rider, that would have brought him last years title. Being quick and crash still don't make riders fast, and being quick or fast in practice dosen't give any points.
So, by this statement to win the title you have to be the fastest rider, which would mean the fastest bike would it not?
I say this as you admit that CS was faster in 2007 and allude to that being shown by his world championship and that as he did not win in 2008 it therefore shows that he was not the fastest which would mean that the winner of the championship was on the fastest bike.
Now, let us say that this is true, then why do so many people still say that the Ducati was the fastest bike in 2008?
It is pedantics again Babel.
Let me ask you who is the fastest rider.
One with the highest top speed.
One with the fastest lap on the day.
The lap record holder
The race winner
Gaz
So, by this statement to win the title you have to be the fastest rider, which would mean the fastest bike would it not?
I say this as you admit that CS was faster in 2007 and allude to that being shown by his world championship and that as he did not win in 2008 it therefore shows that he was not the fastest which would mean that the winner of the championship was on the fastest bike.
Now, let us say that this is true, then why do so many people still say that the Ducati was the fastest bike in 2008?
It is pedantics again Babel.
Let me ask you who is the fastest rider.
One with the highest top speed.
One with the fastest lap on the day.
The lap record holder
The race winner
Gaz
im 22. i use to make about 40k usd a year. but i don't ride a bike
. thats the only explanation why i'm not making 1300000000000000000000000000000 today.
Joined Oct 2006
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J708 @ Aug 20 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>im 22.
Is that your age or your IQ?
Is that your age or your IQ?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 20 2009, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh, I stand corrected, Stoner is .....
All I need to know about Rossi's titles are that minus the special tires, he couldn't win one. ie 07. The year they had the same tires, Stoner was faster than him the entire season, fact. Oh, and this year, haha, Yamaha, enuf said. Smoke that.
You children don't understand MotoGP. You think he's the greatest ever, but don't realize the machine/tires make the better riders look like geniuses. Slap Rossi on a Suzuki, Kawasaki, or even worse, a Ducati, and you'd see just how great he is. Which year on those other brands would he have delivered? Ah, prototype racing, making fools out of ignorant people for years!
So this means that Rossi is .... then? I'm confused..... If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
You had better do a little more investigating before you spew more rubbish like this out....Colin has always said that Rossi's special Michys were actually too hard a compound for him (CE) to use and in that same statement he qualified VR as a true racing genius, I will stick with Colin's view as it is not only a more qualified source, but his view isn't tainted with parochial narcissism.
125-250cc championships both on Dunlops available to the whole field I believe....
Slap VR on a Yamaha M1 in 04, which was, at the time, performing worse/similar than the Duck is now.....what happened there Jum? Special tyres....Special bike, springs, wheels, chains-Alien technology. Your not far from Groom lake, maybe they got some stuff from there? Explain to us all here what has been special about VR's equipment, that no-one else has access to? Real facts now...
All of which he didn't really use properly to clear out in races if his machinery was that much better, how many times has VR just cleared out in his career. Most of his close rivals have been just as quick and he beats them in the last few laps.
The M1 has only recently been able to really out perform the Honda. You aren't just pouring .... on VR here, its falling on other legends like JB and .... Smart.
Anyone who understands motogp knows this, even people who don't.....
All I need to know about Rossi's titles are that minus the special tires, he couldn't win one. ie 07. The year they had the same tires, Stoner was faster than him the entire season, fact. Oh, and this year, haha, Yamaha, enuf said. Smoke that.
You children don't understand MotoGP. You think he's the greatest ever, but don't realize the machine/tires make the better riders look like geniuses. Slap Rossi on a Suzuki, Kawasaki, or even worse, a Ducati, and you'd see just how great he is. Which year on those other brands would he have delivered? Ah, prototype racing, making fools out of ignorant people for years!
So this means that Rossi is .... then? I'm confused..... If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
You had better do a little more investigating before you spew more rubbish like this out....Colin has always said that Rossi's special Michys were actually too hard a compound for him (CE) to use and in that same statement he qualified VR as a true racing genius, I will stick with Colin's view as it is not only a more qualified source, but his view isn't tainted with parochial narcissism.
125-250cc championships both on Dunlops available to the whole field I believe....
Slap VR on a Yamaha M1 in 04, which was, at the time, performing worse/similar than the Duck is now.....what happened there Jum? Special tyres....Special bike, springs, wheels, chains-Alien technology. Your not far from Groom lake, maybe they got some stuff from there? Explain to us all here what has been special about VR's equipment, that no-one else has access to? Real facts now...
All of which he didn't really use properly to clear out in races if his machinery was that much better, how many times has VR just cleared out in his career. Most of his close rivals have been just as quick and he beats them in the last few laps.
The M1 has only recently been able to really out perform the Honda. You aren't just pouring .... on VR here, its falling on other legends like JB and .... Smart.
Anyone who understands motogp knows this, even people who don't.....
GP Rider : I want Rossi's tires !!!
Michelin Man : OK.
Mechanic : Wrench. Wrench. Wrench.
Engine : Vroom!
GP Rider : OH ....!!!
Michelin Man : Here he comes.
GP Rider : Can I have my old tires back?
Michelin Man : OK.
Mechanic : Wrench. Wrench. Wrench.
Engine : Vroom!
GP Rider : OH ....!!!
Michelin Man : Here he comes.
GP Rider : Can I have my old tires back?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 21 2009, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So this means that Rossi is .... then? I'm confused..... If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
You had better do a little more investigating before you spew more rubbish like this out....Colin has always said that Rossi's special Michys were actually too hard a compound for him (CE) to use and in that same statement he qualified VR as a true racing genius, I will stick with Colin's view as it is not only a more qualified source, but his view isn't tainted with parochial narcissism.
125-250cc championships both on Dunlops available to the whole field I believe....
Slap VR on a Yamaha M1 in 04, which was, at the time, performing worse/similar than the Duck is now.....what happened there Jum? Special tyres....Special bike, springs, wheels, chains-Alien technology. Your not far from Groom lake, maybe they got some stuff from there? Explain to us all here what has been special about VR's equipment, that no-one else has access to? Real facts now...
All of which he didn't really use properly to clear out in races if his machinery was that much better, how many times has VR just cleared out in his career. Most of his close rivals have been just as quick and he beats them in the last few laps.
The M1 has only recently been able to really out perform the Honda. You aren't just pouring .... on VR here, its falling on other legends like JB and .... Smart.
Anyone who understands motogp knows this, even people who don't.....
+ 1 mate but i am sure jumkie will come up with some kind of self generated facts.
You had better do a little more investigating before you spew more rubbish like this out....Colin has always said that Rossi's special Michys were actually too hard a compound for him (CE) to use and in that same statement he qualified VR as a true racing genius, I will stick with Colin's view as it is not only a more qualified source, but his view isn't tainted with parochial narcissism.
125-250cc championships both on Dunlops available to the whole field I believe....
Slap VR on a Yamaha M1 in 04, which was, at the time, performing worse/similar than the Duck is now.....what happened there Jum? Special tyres....Special bike, springs, wheels, chains-Alien technology. Your not far from Groom lake, maybe they got some stuff from there? Explain to us all here what has been special about VR's equipment, that no-one else has access to? Real facts now...
All of which he didn't really use properly to clear out in races if his machinery was that much better, how many times has VR just cleared out in his career. Most of his close rivals have been just as quick and he beats them in the last few laps.
The M1 has only recently been able to really out perform the Honda. You aren't just pouring .... on VR here, its falling on other legends like JB and .... Smart.
Anyone who understands motogp knows this, even people who don't.....
+ 1 mate but i am sure jumkie will come up with some kind of self generated facts.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Aug 20 2009, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+ 1.
+1? Arent u the same person?
+1? Arent u the same person?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Aug 20 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>GP Rider : I want Rossi's tires !!!
Michelin Man : OK.
Mechanic : Wrench. Wrench. Wrench.
Engine : Vroom!
GP Rider : OH ....!!!
Michelin Man : Here he comes.
GP Rider : Can I have my old tires back?
Didnt we already have this conversation? U lost the first debate, do u think the outcome will b magically different this time? How about we skip the whole thing, so u wont cry foul that im too abrassive, and just say i win again. Nah, making Rossi boppers look silly is too much fun.
The other riders are NOT asking for Rossi's tires genius. Rossi was asking the Michelin man for special tires made for him, and the Michelin man delivered. You guys sighted Colin, as he said Rossi uses very hard tires. So then, Rossi is not asking for Colin's tires right? No, he was asking for a special tire, which he got. What might have happened if Michelin said we can't make hard tires, we only make what we make for everybody else? You think other non-connected riders might have Michelin on their speed dial? Hahaha. So what happened when Rossi couldn't get his special tires any more? Yup, no title. This alone should tell you what others had to deal with for years. Rossi gets his special tires, other have to make do with what they got from Michelin. And now you think Bstones are not created around his specifications? ...., everybody is using Rossi's tires now, and one other choice. Dorna, like DMG made damn sure Rossi's demands were met. Hell, they went so far as to go to a "spec" tire over 07 when the unthinkable happened, he got beat again. Rossi said himself, if the tire manufactures ask him to swim across the ocean, he would. That is how important tires are. And every year running, except for 07, he got what he wanted, not so for the rest.
Michelin Man : OK.
Mechanic : Wrench. Wrench. Wrench.
Engine : Vroom!
GP Rider : OH ....!!!
Michelin Man : Here he comes.
GP Rider : Can I have my old tires back?
Didnt we already have this conversation? U lost the first debate, do u think the outcome will b magically different this time? How about we skip the whole thing, so u wont cry foul that im too abrassive, and just say i win again. Nah, making Rossi boppers look silly is too much fun.
The other riders are NOT asking for Rossi's tires genius. Rossi was asking the Michelin man for special tires made for him, and the Michelin man delivered. You guys sighted Colin, as he said Rossi uses very hard tires. So then, Rossi is not asking for Colin's tires right? No, he was asking for a special tire, which he got. What might have happened if Michelin said we can't make hard tires, we only make what we make for everybody else? You think other non-connected riders might have Michelin on their speed dial? Hahaha. So what happened when Rossi couldn't get his special tires any more? Yup, no title. This alone should tell you what others had to deal with for years. Rossi gets his special tires, other have to make do with what they got from Michelin. And now you think Bstones are not created around his specifications? ...., everybody is using Rossi's tires now, and one other choice. Dorna, like DMG made damn sure Rossi's demands were met. Hell, they went so far as to go to a "spec" tire over 07 when the unthinkable happened, he got beat again. Rossi said himself, if the tire manufactures ask him to swim across the ocean, he would. That is how important tires are. And every year running, except for 07, he got what he wanted, not so for the rest.
Joined Oct 2006
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Warning: Look away true Rossi fans. This is not meant for you, I'm on a rossi-bopper busting mission.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 20 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So this means that Rossi is .... then?
No, but his success has been greatly aided by inequitable glaring preferential treatment among other things, something you boys cannot acknowledge, which leaves him with god status at the same time coming up with every possible reason why the riders that beat him were unfairly aided in their titles.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I'm confused.....
Yes, I know, but I have been trying to school you. Its not working.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
To answer your question, NO. There was one golden boy, his name is Rossi. He's a brand for Dorna, and they love the growth in viewership. So much so that they were willing to move heaven and earth in a very public show of preferential treatment at the end of 07 to make sure the golden egg laying machine stayed happy. Ah, how quickly you boys forget (or perhaps the special glasses you where impeded you from seeing) that Rossi threatened to leave MotoGP if he didn't get his way. Dorna very publicly acquiesced. And the message was there for the world to see, nothing would get in the way of motogp's golden boy.
Yes, a brand. Les you boys forget that Mick Doohan won 5 titles also, but was never much of a marketing jewel. Rossi is a promoter's wet dream. You boys love to say Rossi, the "8" time world champ, but lower class titles don't count. Rossi has so far won ONLY one more title than Doohan; yet Rossi has legend status as the GOAT. Why? Well, quite frankly, we love the guy not just for his success but for his personality. Something Doohan lacked, and hell something Stoner, though he put in the most amazing season in 07, has been jeered because he isn't great for PR.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>You had better do a little more investigating before you spew more rubbish like this out....Colin has always said that Rossi's special Michys were actually too hard a compound for him (CE) to use and in that same statement he qualified VR as a true racing genius, I will stick with Colin's view as it is not only a more qualified source, but his view isn't tainted with parochial narcissism.
Well no ....! I do not doubt Rossi needed very special tires to win. That is my point, isn't it? Interesting that when Michelin could no longer make those special tires Saturday night that Rossi's performance suffered. I can only imagine what this might have meant over the years for his rivals. Ah, but Dorna quickly realized their mistake , and at Rossi's bequest, and bam, motogp does the unprecedented and moves to a "spec" tire over night! Ah, but who's specs? I have no doubt Btones are made with him in mind, Dorna, the entity who awarded the contract (and clearly for Rossi alone), wouldn't have it any other way.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>125-250cc championships both on Dunlops available to the whole field I believe....
Ok, so what is your point? There are plenty of lower class champs in the series. What I'm saying is at the MotoGP level, he got special tires, period. This might explain why the other lower class champs haven't challenged so well, eh.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Slap VR on a Yamaha M1 in 04, which was, at the time, performing worse/similar than the Duck is now.....what happened there Jum? Special tyres....Special bike, springs, wheels, chains-Alien technology. Your not far from Groom lake, maybe they got some stuff from there? Explain to us all here what has been special about VR's equipment, that no-one else has access to? Real facts now...
Ah, when you make such outrageous comments, its a sign you have nothing. Hahaha, I already explained this to inam, your alter ego, but in short: Yamaha and Honda have traded titles for the last 30 years. They are about the same. I'd say like today in fact. Honda may have had the slight advantage in 03, but then once he moved to the slightly less Yamaha, he took his great tires with him. Hell, it might explain why 03 Honda looked so much better than 03 Yamaha. Or are you going to say now that tires are not that important? Ask Rossi what he thinks on the importance of tires. I'm sure Barros did not have Michelin man on his speed dial.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>All of which he didn't really use properly to clear out in races if his machinery was that much better, how many times has VR just cleared out in his career. Most of his close rivals have been just as quick and he beats them in the last few laps.
The M1 has only recently been able to really out perform the Honda. You aren't just pouring .... on VR here, its falling on other legends like JB and .... Smart.
Anyone who understands motogp knows this, even people who don't.....
Well when your special tires are holding up until the last laps, it’s not a mystery why you win at the end. Your point at the beginning of your post was that the Yamaha was .... compared to the Honda when he made the switch. Here you're inconsistent with your logic, as you admit that Rossi didn't clear out, which points to the competitiveness of his rivals machines. Interesting. So then what might be the difference. Hint: Tires.
Would you like me to go on debunking every point you boys make?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 20 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So this means that Rossi is .... then?
No, but his success has been greatly aided by inequitable glaring preferential treatment among other things, something you boys cannot acknowledge, which leaves him with god status at the same time coming up with every possible reason why the riders that beat him were unfairly aided in their titles.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I'm confused.....
Yes, I know, but I have been trying to school you. Its not working.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
To answer your question, NO. There was one golden boy, his name is Rossi. He's a brand for Dorna, and they love the growth in viewership. So much so that they were willing to move heaven and earth in a very public show of preferential treatment at the end of 07 to make sure the golden egg laying machine stayed happy. Ah, how quickly you boys forget (or perhaps the special glasses you where impeded you from seeing) that Rossi threatened to leave MotoGP if he didn't get his way. Dorna very publicly acquiesced. And the message was there for the world to see, nothing would get in the way of motogp's golden boy.
Yes, a brand. Les you boys forget that Mick Doohan won 5 titles also, but was never much of a marketing jewel. Rossi is a promoter's wet dream. You boys love to say Rossi, the "8" time world champ, but lower class titles don't count. Rossi has so far won ONLY one more title than Doohan; yet Rossi has legend status as the GOAT. Why? Well, quite frankly, we love the guy not just for his success but for his personality. Something Doohan lacked, and hell something Stoner, though he put in the most amazing season in 07, has been jeered because he isn't great for PR.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>You had better do a little more investigating before you spew more rubbish like this out....Colin has always said that Rossi's special Michys were actually too hard a compound for him (CE) to use and in that same statement he qualified VR as a true racing genius, I will stick with Colin's view as it is not only a more qualified source, but his view isn't tainted with parochial narcissism.
Well no ....! I do not doubt Rossi needed very special tires to win. That is my point, isn't it? Interesting that when Michelin could no longer make those special tires Saturday night that Rossi's performance suffered. I can only imagine what this might have meant over the years for his rivals. Ah, but Dorna quickly realized their mistake , and at Rossi's bequest, and bam, motogp does the unprecedented and moves to a "spec" tire over night! Ah, but who's specs? I have no doubt Btones are made with him in mind, Dorna, the entity who awarded the contract (and clearly for Rossi alone), wouldn't have it any other way.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>125-250cc championships both on Dunlops available to the whole field I believe....
Ok, so what is your point? There are plenty of lower class champs in the series. What I'm saying is at the MotoGP level, he got special tires, period. This might explain why the other lower class champs haven't challenged so well, eh.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Slap VR on a Yamaha M1 in 04, which was, at the time, performing worse/similar than the Duck is now.....what happened there Jum? Special tyres....Special bike, springs, wheels, chains-Alien technology. Your not far from Groom lake, maybe they got some stuff from there? Explain to us all here what has been special about VR's equipment, that no-one else has access to? Real facts now...
Ah, when you make such outrageous comments, its a sign you have nothing. Hahaha, I already explained this to inam, your alter ego, but in short: Yamaha and Honda have traded titles for the last 30 years. They are about the same. I'd say like today in fact. Honda may have had the slight advantage in 03, but then once he moved to the slightly less Yamaha, he took his great tires with him. Hell, it might explain why 03 Honda looked so much better than 03 Yamaha. Or are you going to say now that tires are not that important? Ask Rossi what he thinks on the importance of tires. I'm sure Barros did not have Michelin man on his speed dial.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>All of which he didn't really use properly to clear out in races if his machinery was that much better, how many times has VR just cleared out in his career. Most of his close rivals have been just as quick and he beats them in the last few laps.
The M1 has only recently been able to really out perform the Honda. You aren't just pouring .... on VR here, its falling on other legends like JB and .... Smart.
Anyone who understands motogp knows this, even people who don't.....
Well when your special tires are holding up until the last laps, it’s not a mystery why you win at the end. Your point at the beginning of your post was that the Yamaha was .... compared to the Honda when he made the switch. Here you're inconsistent with your logic, as you admit that Rossi didn't clear out, which points to the competitiveness of his rivals machines. Interesting. So then what might be the difference. Hint: Tires.
Would you like me to go on debunking every point you boys make?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bill88 @ Aug 20 2009, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no, stoner did have a much faster bike, watch again china for example, or qatar.. and by the way remind me of just one overtake he made on the brakes in 07. this means all he had to do was wait to pass clearly at the straight line.
But this can't be, Jumkie, the GP-guru has spoken. Wait, maybe there still is an explanation.
He just said that Stoner didn't have the fastest ducati. Probably he did so because he doesn't know that drafting can often give an extra 10kmp and stoner weren't drafting on any of those tracks in fact he were hardly slip streaming at all in '07. He was out of Rossi's slipstream 1/4 into the straight and passed on power as if he were riding a 990.
The rest of the ducatis midfield had plenty of slipstrem possibilities and now doubt the succeeded a few times during a race, and there you have it: The faster Ducatis were midfield while Stoner obviously was on a much slower Ducati. Not a very reliable way of measuring the bikes speed potential, but J trust measurements more, SO MUCH more than what you and I can see with our own eyes.
But this can't be, Jumkie, the GP-guru has spoken. Wait, maybe there still is an explanation.
He just said that Stoner didn't have the fastest ducati. Probably he did so because he doesn't know that drafting can often give an extra 10kmp and stoner weren't drafting on any of those tracks in fact he were hardly slip streaming at all in '07. He was out of Rossi's slipstream 1/4 into the straight and passed on power as if he were riding a 990.
The rest of the ducatis midfield had plenty of slipstrem possibilities and now doubt the succeeded a few times during a race, and there you have it: The faster Ducatis were midfield while Stoner obviously was on a much slower Ducati. Not a very reliable way of measuring the bikes speed potential, but J trust measurements more, SO MUCH more than what you and I can see with our own eyes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 21 2009, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Didnt we already have this conversation? U lost the first debate, do u think the outcome will b magically different this time? How about we skip the whole thing, so u wont cry foul that im too abrassive, and just say i win again. Nah, making Rossi boppers look silly is too much fun.
The other riders are NOT asking for Rossi's tires genius. Rossi was asking the Michelin man for special tires made for him, and the Michelin man delivered. You guys sighted Colin, as he said Rossi uses very hard tires. So then, Rossi is not asking for Colin's tires right? No, he was asking for a special tire, which he got. What might have happened if Michelin said we can't make hard tires, we only make what we make for everybody else? You think other non-connected riders might have Michelin on their speed dial? Hahaha. So what happened when Rossi couldn't get his special tires any more? Yup, no title. This alone should tell you what others had to deal with for years. Rossi gets his special tires, other have to make do with what they got from Michelin. And now you think Bstones are not created around his specifications? ...., everybody is using Rossi's tires now, and one other choice. Dorna, like DMG made damn sure Rossi's demands were met. Hell, they went so far as to go to a "spec" tire over 07 when the unthinkable happened, he got beat again. Rossi said himself, if the tire manufactures ask him to swim across the ocean, he would. That is how important tires are. And every year running, except for 07, he got what he wanted, not so for the rest.
You take yourself a little too seriously.
But you must be right. Rossi sucks.
The other riders are NOT asking for Rossi's tires genius. Rossi was asking the Michelin man for special tires made for him, and the Michelin man delivered. You guys sighted Colin, as he said Rossi uses very hard tires. So then, Rossi is not asking for Colin's tires right? No, he was asking for a special tire, which he got. What might have happened if Michelin said we can't make hard tires, we only make what we make for everybody else? You think other non-connected riders might have Michelin on their speed dial? Hahaha. So what happened when Rossi couldn't get his special tires any more? Yup, no title. This alone should tell you what others had to deal with for years. Rossi gets his special tires, other have to make do with what they got from Michelin. And now you think Bstones are not created around his specifications? ...., everybody is using Rossi's tires now, and one other choice. Dorna, like DMG made damn sure Rossi's demands were met. Hell, they went so far as to go to a "spec" tire over 07 when the unthinkable happened, he got beat again. Rossi said himself, if the tire manufactures ask him to swim across the ocean, he would. That is how important tires are. And every year running, except for 07, he got what he wanted, not so for the rest.
You take yourself a little too seriously.
But you must be right. Rossi sucks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 21 2009, 08:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>
If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
To answer your question, NO.
I can only assume you are showing your ignorance here, because the top riders did get preferential treatment as they always have in motor sport, nothing new there.
They get the best parts and they get the hottest girs.
As long as Michelin could, and there were any gains to be seen they brought in fresh rubber over night for all the top riders. Sometimes they were used sometimes not. Some might have felt left out as they were close to the top or among those up and coming taking M. by surprise, but all in all they tried to supply the best riders with the best rubber. Let's not forget that except a couple of years all top riders the last couple of decades were on Michelin. In other words that "preferential" treatment only really came into play as Bridgestone came with competitive tires and competitive riders.
And it eats your hart out that Rossi whopped ... as soon as he got the right tires, the same as the '07 champion, doesn't it? Well it proved aprx 100 Jumkie posts about tires were Junk so no wonder you talk the huge conspiracy but fact is that he only moved to the currently dominating tire brand, riders does that all the time, especially the best. Get over it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Yes, a brand. Les you boys forget that Mick Doohan won 5 titles also, but was never much of a marketing jewel.
While we're at it; lets drag Doohan into the dirt as well. Obvioulsy and arguably he recived the same preferential treatment at Honda and Michelin as Rossi did, right? Yes of course it's right, The best riders recive the best equipment.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Well no ....! I do not doubt Rossi needed very special tires to win. That is my point, isn't it? Interesting that when Michelin could no longer make those special tires Saturday night that Rossi's performance suffered. I can only imagine what this might have meant over the years for his rivals.
Or it could be that most of his Michelin challengers, that would be 100% of his challengers only a few years earlier, were hit by the same problem, and it wasn't the overnight specials. To take a check on the impact of those overnight specials Rossi haters often used his miraculous improvement over the night as solid proof of how effective they were, while in fact the overnight specials often wasn't there or were dropped. But these days we know that overnight specials has absolutely nothing to do with Rossi's overnight improvement, don't we?
The real problem, for all Michelin riders, where that the limited numbers of tires heavily penalized them as Michelin tires had very narrow operating parameters and that would require a lot more tires to be covered for all conditions. While Bridgestone who proposed the new tires rules did so based on how they operated and designed their tires. With much more general tires they could operate near or at optimum with a lot fewer tires than M. could, and while this came to a big surprise to the public I'll bet it was no surprise for them.
If there were more geniuses out there in the past 12 years surely they would have commanded special tyres? Biaggi, Gibbers, Hayden, didn't they get the good stuff too?
To answer your question, NO.
I can only assume you are showing your ignorance here, because the top riders did get preferential treatment as they always have in motor sport, nothing new there.
They get the best parts and they get the hottest girs.
As long as Michelin could, and there were any gains to be seen they brought in fresh rubber over night for all the top riders. Sometimes they were used sometimes not. Some might have felt left out as they were close to the top or among those up and coming taking M. by surprise, but all in all they tried to supply the best riders with the best rubber. Let's not forget that except a couple of years all top riders the last couple of decades were on Michelin. In other words that "preferential" treatment only really came into play as Bridgestone came with competitive tires and competitive riders.
And it eats your hart out that Rossi whopped ... as soon as he got the right tires, the same as the '07 champion, doesn't it? Well it proved aprx 100 Jumkie posts about tires were Junk so no wonder you talk the huge conspiracy but fact is that he only moved to the currently dominating tire brand, riders does that all the time, especially the best. Get over it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Yes, a brand. Les you boys forget that Mick Doohan won 5 titles also, but was never much of a marketing jewel.
While we're at it; lets drag Doohan into the dirt as well. Obvioulsy and arguably he recived the same preferential treatment at Honda and Michelin as Rossi did, right? Yes of course it's right, The best riders recive the best equipment.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Well no ....! I do not doubt Rossi needed very special tires to win. That is my point, isn't it? Interesting that when Michelin could no longer make those special tires Saturday night that Rossi's performance suffered. I can only imagine what this might have meant over the years for his rivals.
Or it could be that most of his Michelin challengers, that would be 100% of his challengers only a few years earlier, were hit by the same problem, and it wasn't the overnight specials. To take a check on the impact of those overnight specials Rossi haters often used his miraculous improvement over the night as solid proof of how effective they were, while in fact the overnight specials often wasn't there or were dropped. But these days we know that overnight specials has absolutely nothing to do with Rossi's overnight improvement, don't we?
The real problem, for all Michelin riders, where that the limited numbers of tires heavily penalized them as Michelin tires had very narrow operating parameters and that would require a lot more tires to be covered for all conditions. While Bridgestone who proposed the new tires rules did so based on how they operated and designed their tires. With much more general tires they could operate near or at optimum with a lot fewer tires than M. could, and while this came to a big surprise to the public I'll bet it was no surprise for them.
