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Jorge $13,000,000 contract with Ducati

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 21 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes i do remember and if you care to do some digging back you will see i didn't believe bridgstone and there "we cant supply any more bla bla" bollocks back then. i was right because not only did they supply rossi, they also supplied pedro and bid to be the sole supplier. that was just marketing mumbo jumbo. just look at the free press they got out of that.
I never said they were telling the truth, but they did say they couldn't handle supplying any more team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 21 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If that's true then where being robbed and this was yet another stupid rule that was detrimental to our sport. To be honest i cant see that being correct.

and who the .... is Gavin and Nick ?
Absolutely it's true. They still need to make the tires quite competitive but they're no longer in a tire war. There has to be less spent on development, thus allowing them to supply the entire grid. Why else would they say they didn't have the funds to supply more riders after 2007 and then become sole supplier in 2009? Like I said, I'm sure they had the capacity to do so at that time but the costs of doing so would have been astronomical. They don't have to compete with Michelin anymore, all they have to do is continue making tires that can handle the 800s grip needs.

Nick Harris and Gavin (can't remember his last name) are the commentators for MotoGP.com if I'm thinking of the right people.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 21 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I never said they were telling the truth, but they did say they couldn't handle supplying any more team.


Absolutely it's true. They still need to make the tires quite competitive but they're no longer in a tire war. There has to be less spent on development, thus allowing them to supply the entire grid. Why else would they say they didn't have the funds to supply more riders after 2007 and then become sole supplier in 2009? Like I said, I'm sure they had the capacity to do so at that time but the costs of doing so would have been astronomical. They don't have to compete with Michelin anymore, all they have to do is continue making tires that can handle the 800s grip needs.

Nick Harris and Gavin (can't remember his last name) are the commentators for MotoGP.com if I'm thinking of the right people.

I don't think it was mumbo jumbo. They were talking about not being able to supply more teams
with a multiplicity of choices including qualifiers. Supplying everyone with very limited choices in a control tire is a whole other thing.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 21 2009, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it was mumbo jumbo. They were talking about not being able to supply more teams
with a multiplicity of choices including qualifiers. Supplying everyone with very limited choices in a control tire is a whole other thing.
maybe ,maybe not. id love to know what the real figures are on tyre costs. Surely they cant be doing it that much on the cheap. after all lap records are still being broken.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 21 2009, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>maybe ,maybe not. id love to know what the real figures are on tyre costs. Surely they cant be doing it that much on the cheap. after all lap records are still being broken.
There are no more qualifiers. Each b-stone rider used to get 2.
There are no intermediates, which used to be brought to races.
There are only 2 compound choices per race (A or
<
.
There is only one construction choice per race (hard). There were at least 2 construction types last year.
Slicks are no longer cut.
I believe the number of Bstone tecs has not increased.

The above leave much room for cost cuts and development can go slower and be done earlier (2010's are already spec'd out)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 21 2009, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't you all remember Bridgestone saying that they wouldn't supply tires to any more riders?
I belive the exact wording were team. One could make an argument that Rossi is not a team, only half a team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Valentino got them before 2008, Pedrosa got them mid-season. There are two powers in this sport and it's been that way for about the past seven years: Valentino Rossi and HRC. Valentino gets what he wants and HRC gets what they want for their chosen rider. It's not surprising Pedro got them midway through the year. What is surprising is that Rossi was able to get them before HRC.
That is kind of interesting isn't it. It even might suggest that there are other things than pure power that came into play when Bridgestone choose to accept Rossi as one of their customers.
That said I have no illusions regarding Rossi here. He saw that strings needed to be pulled, took a look at it and found he had a reasonable chance, or even that he just had to try his best, and he pulled. One of his actions were to exploit the possibility to come to bridgestone as a single rider, not as a team, something I suspect were a key factor as BS previously DID say team and later used the single rider thing to explain how they found room for Rossi. Was it out of line or in any way unsportsmanlike? No FUING way. He asked for, and got what the current champion had. Considering this is motor sport where there always are resource shortcomings everyone is on their own to get the best equipment and best personnel, there is nothing funny about this transaction. If this was in anyway unfair then motor sport as a whole is by default unfair and has always been.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Aug 21 2009, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are no more qualifiers. Each b-stone rider used to get 2.
There are no intermediates, which used to be brought to races.
There are only 2 compound choices per race (A or Rossi-Hard).
There is only one construction choice per race (hard). There were at least 2 construction types last year.
Slicks are no longer cut.
I believe the number of Bstone tecs has not increased.

The above leave much room for cost cuts and development can go slower and be done earlier (2010's are already spec'd out)

Fixed it for ya.
<
 
Aspar Martinez to Marca.com :

"Nunca me he movido por el dinero y menos en lo deportivo. Lo que pasa es que dentro de Yamaha está luchando contra el más grande de la historia y para mí, de tú a tú, con lo mismo, será muy difícil que le gane", opinó. Además, Aspar cree que Ducati "tiene el potencial para mejorar esa moto y sería muy bonito ver un duelo distinto al que vemos ahora".

Aspar seems to think Lorenzo will go to Ducati...
 
Sorry, I forgot the translation:

"If he stays with Yamaha, Lorenzo will have to fight the strongest rider in history using the same material, and it will be very difficult for him to win.... I think Ducati have the potential to improve their bike and it would be nice to see this duel with different machines, unlike now."

<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 21 2009, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I belive the exact wording were team. One could make an argument that Rossi is not a team, only half a team.

That is kind of interesting isn't it. It even might suggest that there are other things than pure power that came into play when Bridgestone choose to accept Rossi as one of their customers.
That said I have no illusions regarding Rossi here. He saw that strings needed to be pulled, took a look at it and found he had a reasonable chance, or even that he just had to try his best, and he pulled. One of his actions were to exploit the possibility to come to bridgestone as a single rider, not as a team, something I suspect were a key factor as BS previously DID say team and later used the single rider thing to explain how they found room for Rossi. Was it out of line or in any way unsportsmanlike? No FUING way. He asked for, and got what the current champion had. Considering this is motor sport where there always are resource shortcomings everyone is on their own to get the best equipment and best personnel, there is nothing funny about this transaction. If this was in anyway unfair then motor sport as a whole is by default unfair and has always been.
My mistake on the rider/team mix up. I've never said what he did was unsportsmanlike, out of line or unfair. This is motorsport, and the best get the best. That's how it works. I won't argue that. I'm just pointing out the influence and power Rossi possesses. I also find it interesting that Rossi's wishes were met before HRC's considering HRC's longstanding relationship with Michelin and their stance as the most powerful manufacturer in the series for the past three to four decades.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 22 2009, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Fixed it for ya.
<


There are only 2 compound choices per race (A or Rossi-Hard).

Are they the ones they "forget" to put markings on?
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vibe @ Aug 22 2009, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are only 2 compound choices per race (A or Rossi-Hard).

Are they the ones they "forget" to put markings on?
<

Are you sure that you got your favrouite riders in right order?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Aug 21 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you sure that you got your favrouite riders in right order?
You can admire a man and still speak the truth. Something alien to you and talpa I guess. Inam, you still haven't learned have you, its not Rossi bashing as it is simply seeing the inequities of the sport and calling them out. Now add to this the recurring theme of Rossi fanboys rubbishing other riders accomplishments, then this is what you will get. When you have people like you and Talpa (most recently, and believe me, you boys are guppies in an ocean of Rossi Cult Worshippers who have come before you, and frankly have been more of a challenge ie J4rno & Babel) then you will have people like me reminding you of what is on the public record regarding the dirty little backroom deals of the sport. As you can see, when I point them out, I'm "bashing" but you have no rebuttle for the truth, and a bit of sound logic, and meaningful evaluation. Btw, look at my avi, I also have Rossi as a favorite. I'm just aware that not all is face value in the sport.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 22 2009, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can admire a man and still speak the truth. Something alien to you and talpa I guess. Inam, you still haven't learned have you, its not Rossi bashing as it is simply seeing the inequities of the sport and calling them out. Now add to this the recurring theme of Rossi fanboys rubbishing other riders accomplishments, then this is what you will get. When you have people like you and Talpa (most recently, and believe me, you boys are guppies in an ocean of Rossi Cult Worshippers who have come before you, and frankly have been more of a challenge ie J4rno & Babel) then you will have people like me reminding you of what is on the public record regarding the dirty little backroom deals of the sport. As you can see, when I point them out, I'm "bashing" but you have no rebuttle for the truth, and a bit of sound logic, and meaningful evaluation. Btw, look at my avi, I also have Rossi as a favorite. I'm just aware that not all is face value in the sport.
Jumkie you must be sitting along side Rossi in those dirty little backroom deals which abviously not possible for casual fans like me, Talpa or few others on this forum.

Tell me jumkie one thing why Rossi didn't stop dorna when they scrap special tyre rule, you must be sitting there some where in that backroom behind the sofa or table.
<


You assume youself that you are winning every debate on this forum but to be honest with you Jumkie there is not much to debate with you anyway most of your facts are self generated or from dirty backroom deals which abviously we as a casual fans are not part of it.I am new to this forum buddy but i have been watching MGP for last 20 years or so.

Jumkie you better stop defending CS now with your self generated facts becuase i can see there are plenty of CS boppershere who can do better job than you, so you better start wasting some energy to defend Rossi now.
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 20 2009, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>not really earth shattering stuff.

Jumkie, this ‘Non earth shattering stuff’ has been done by exactly how many riders in ‘All’ the History of our beloved Sport? How many that could win back to back Championships? And how many that could win back to back races?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 21 2009, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To answer your question, NO. There was one golden boy, his name is Rossi. He's a brand for Dorna, and they love the growth in viewership. So much so that they were willing to move heaven and earth in a very public show of preferential treatment at the end of 07 to make sure the golden egg laying machine stayed happy. Ah, how quickly you boys forget (or perhaps the special glasses you where impeded you from seeing) that Rossi threatened to leave MotoGP if he didn't get his way. Dorna very publicly acquiesced. And the message was there for the world to see, nothing would get in the way of motogp's golden boy.

At least Rossi waited for the end of the Season to change from Michelins… I think there was then at least ‘One’ Platinum with Diamonds ‘Preferential’ boy that could make a change mid Season… ´P´ and HRC ring a bell…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 21 2009, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, but his success has been greatly aided by inequitable glaring preferential treatment among other things, something you boys cannot acknowledge, which leaves him with god status at the same time coming up with every possible reason why the riders that beat him were unfairly aided in their titles.

So then you are saying that in 2007 Stoner won because he had the ‘Preferential Brigestones’? Because he did, and they also got the ‘One Tyre’ deal afterwards, meaning by the end of 2007 they proved better than Michelins.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 21 2009, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yet Rossi has legend status as the GOAT. Why?

http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/...toGP/table5.pdf

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 21 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>maybe ,maybe not. id love to know what the real figures are on tyre costs. Surely they cant be doing it that much on the cheap. after all lap records are still being broken.

By the way.., which rider has been the ‘First’ to break the ‘Fastest’ Pole (in Brno) since the ‘One tyre Rule’ came into effect? I am not sure here, but did this same rider do it without Qualifiers? Got to be the GOAT I guess… keep throwing Records 46!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 21 2009, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I never said they were telling the truth, but they did say they couldn't handle supplying any more team.

Absolutely it's true. They still need to make the tires quite competitive but they're no longer in a tire war. There has to be less spent on development, thus allowing them to supply the entire grid. Why else would they say they didn't have the funds to supply more riders after 2007 and then become sole supplier in 2009? Like I said, I'm sure they had the capacity to do so at that time but the costs of doing so would have been astronomical. They don't have to compete with Michelin anymore, all they have to do is continue making tires that can handle the 800s grip needs.

Less in development? How can they break records on non Qualifiers without enough development? I don’t think so, Brigestones earns much more (marketing, sales and all) as the sole provider, as you say… Imagine what kind of propaganda winning that 2007 war (and $) that game them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Aug 21 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's the old thing buddy, not all Rossi fans are brainless 10 year olds who have never followed GP racing. I'm on my way out so I'm not going to join in tonight, but come on, it's getting silly!

Pete

Getting really silly man, but I am enjoying to keep bringing out numbers mate!
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Aug 22 2009, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/...toGP/table5.pdf

Numbers ok.

That actually doesn't answer but I know what you are getting at so let us play.

First off, that looks like premier classes only - so does that mean we absolve all other classes from discussion of the greatest Motorcycle Racer of all time?

Now, your table shows that VR has the highest number of First and Second place finishes in the premier class but does not have the Highest number of third place finishes (not even close), most poles, most fastest laps or most championships.

If your argument is that because VR has most 1st and 2nd place finishes then he must be the GOAT, what of Ago who has the highest number of race fast laps and more championships?

Besides which, Ago has more lower class titles as well.

The big factor missing from the list you show is the total number of races per season and competed in as that would add a very interesting side benefit to any discussion.

Now, to be fair using this type of table is a major disservice to the likes of Saarinen who many consider an absolute true legend of the sport (nor Hailwood, Duke, Surtees), so one should not look at it as the sole purveyor of all things GOAT.







Gaz
 
Lorenzo going to Ducati...everyone in the free world wants to go to factory Yamaha and he is looking elsewhere. Makes you wonder if he has a screw loose.
 
Jumkie knows everythings that people does not know!!!! Why? The simple answer, I'm sure, that you Jumkie don't know anything more than anyone in this forum, and you're doing masturbation.

And even if Rossi success has been greatly aided by inequitable glaring preferential treatment, you must raise a question: why Rossi has it? Because Rossi is the best, and the best has power. In this planet, rich people will become richer. Some years ago, can an average rider go to Bridgestone office and ask for his spec tyre??? Bridgestone says: OK man, but you're anonymous, your name means nothing, so please give us a lots of money
<
.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 21 2009, 06:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, but his success has been greatly aided by inequitable glaring preferential treatment among other things, something you boys cannot acknowledge, which leaves him with god status at the same time coming up with every possible reason why the riders that beat him were unfairly aided in their titles.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nghiemlong @ Aug 21 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie knows everythings that people does not know!!!! Why? The simple answer, I'm sure, that you Jumkie don't know anything more than anyone in this forum, and you're doing masturbation.

And even if Rossi success has been greatly aided by inequitable glaring preferential treatment, you must raise a question: why Rossi has it? Because Rossi is the best, and the best has power. In this planet, rich people will become richer. Some years ago, can an average rider go to Bridgestone office and ask for his spec tyre??? Bridgestone says: OK man, but you're anonymous, your name means nothing, so please give us a lots of money
<
.

You are right, I don't know nothing more than is accessible to everybody on this forum. The difference is some selectively turn away from the truth, while some suffer from poor logic, while some lack the ability to evaluate. But have no fear, for every one that is lacking there are sound intelligent readers and evaluators of information too.

Yes, that is my point. But here is what you, and everybody supporting your side is missing: EQUAL & AUTHENTIC COMPETITION. In order to have this, the playing field must be as level as possible, ESPECIALLY FROM THE SANCTIONING BODY (in this case Dorna).

I'm sure you've seen the Olympics right? Bolton is the fastest man in a 100M dash. So should he get a head start now that he is the best? That is what your insane comment above is saying! Not just you, but everybody that subscribes to your suggestion above. Rossi got special tires from Michelin not delivered to his rivals. That is called an unfair advantage. You are saying he deserved it because he was the best--that is perfect if the sport was as fake as WWF (spectacle based wrestling NOT authentic competition). I have argued with everybody here who thinks Rossi "deserved" the Bridgestones after 07 because he was the best and had earned the right for exclusive treatment. Hell, you don't have to go back that far, look up what Rossi himself said when the question about who gets priority in machine updates, he said he does because he deserves it). This may be fine in a team where they must prioritize who is #1, BUT THIS IS NOT FINE for the competitors under the same governing body! DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE? The series of events that led to the spec tire surrounded Rossi EXCLUSIVELY (the soup played our very publically), and in the end he was the only one awarded them (while others where denied).
 

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