January testing discussion

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hopper_fan @ Jan 24 2008, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>RC211V or GSV-R? Which was the bike to have in the 990 era? It's ok, I will wait.

After 2002 Hopkins was coming off the Yamaha 500cc and was avaiable for 03.If Honda thought for a second that he was a better rider they would have snatched him up instead of plucking Hayden out of the AMA.The RC211v was a better bike than the GSV-R and thats why Hayden was riding it.You see,historically,teams like Honda go after the better rider.That strategy has worked out pretty well over the years dont you think.Yamaha had an opening this year on the factory team and as far as i know,Hopper wasnt even considered,why do you think that is.Ducati also had an opening last year and wanted Hayden,why do you think that is.Except for those that are blinded by fandom,Nicky Hayden is seen as a better option than Hopkins when it comes to filling a seat.Im still waiting on the offer of a wager.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jan 24 2008, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden can pull the occasional "fast one", but he needs to work out how to pull the "occasional fast one" more often ......... he can be the fastest one out there ..... but why not for a race distance??

Is Pedrosa going to let me down!!??

Many people have bashed on Hayden for winning the 06 title by "just being consistent". What has changed since then? So again, why not for the race distance? Could it be the tires maybe?? Or maybe he just peaked in 06...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jan 25 2008, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Many people have bashed on Hayden for winning the 06 title by "just being consistent". What has changed since then? So again, why not for the race distance? Could it be the tires maybe?? Or maybe he just peaked in 06...

I'll be honest .... I think Hayden needs a bigger bike ...... the 800's are too much the "sewing machine" for him ........ I also am of the camp that he would be good on a Duc. if he has to ride 800's.

And I'm not talking weight I'm talking grunt and torque and snappy nasty power curves here .... imagine Hayden on a 125!! ..... no?? ..... neither can I

The drop to 800's did not suit many of the riders out there .... Hayden, Edwards, Checa, Barros .... I think it suits the Stoners, Pedrosa's and Rossi's ... Lorenzo is going to find it good etc. etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jan 24 2008, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll be honest .... I think Hayden needs a bigger bike ...... the 800's are too much the "sewing machine" for him ........ I also am of the camp that he would be good on a Duc. if he has to ride 800's.

And I'm not talking weight I'm talking grunt and torque and snappy nasty power curves here .... imagine Hayden on a 125!! ..... no?? ..... neither can I

The drop to 800's did not suit many of the riders out there .... Hayden, Edwards, Checa, Barros .... I think it suits the Stoners, Pedrosa's and Rossi's ... Lorenzo is going to find it good etc. etc.
Excellent post. Yes, I wish he could have been on a Ducati when they went to 800 because it kept the big bike characteristics and it may have suited him better. Ah, who would have known, eh? He's much too loyal to a brand who's loyalties lie in midgets and jockeys.

Another note, if Melandri fails to impress and Stone again dominates, I must say that Casey will have to go down as the best rider bar none and an end at point at the bike/tires to explain his success. Why, well that would make it two outstanding Italian champions that proved it was not the bike, but rather Casey dominating the grid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jan 24 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Many people have bashed on Hayden for winning the 06 title by "just being consistent". What has changed since then? So again, why not for the race distance? Could it be the tires maybe?? Or maybe he just peaked in 06...
Very interesting. I bet some people miss your point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 25 2008, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Excellent post. Yes, I wish he could have been on a Ducati when they went to 800 because it kept the big bike characteristics and it may have suited him better. Ah, who would have known, eh? He's much too loyal to a brand who's loyalties lie in midgets and jockeys.

This years Honda looks a bit more 990ish.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jan 25 2008, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This years Honda looks a bit more 990ish.

Doubt if "looks" of the bike is what he needs .... its cubes Hayden needs

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 25 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After 2002 Hopkins was coming off the Yamaha 500cc and was avaiable for 03.If Honda thought for a second that he was a better rider they would have snatched him up instead of plucking Hayden out of the AMA.The RC211v was a better bike than the GSV-R and thats why Hayden was riding it.You see,historically,teams like Honda go after the better rider.That strategy has worked out pretty well over the years dont you think.Yamaha had an opening this year on the factory team and as far as i know,Hopper wasnt even considered,why do you think that is.Ducati also had an opening last year and wanted Hayden,why do you think that is.Except for those that are blinded by fandom,Nicky Hayden is seen as a better option than Hopkins when it comes to filling a seat.Im still waiting on the offer of a wager.
True. Nicky was the next big thing.... this is a motorcycledaily.com article from Nov 2003.


Hayden Anointed By Doohan
By Dirck Edge


With the imminent departure of Valentino Rossi, Honda is beginning to talk up the future prospects of MotoGP rookie Nicky Hayden. Leading the charge is HRC's Mick Doohan, who has proclaimed Honda's expectation that Nicky is championship material, and can take the crown in the MotoGP class within the next two years.

Next year, Hayden could be considered Honda's number one rider in MotoGP. A remarkable achievement for a 21 year old rider in only his second year at the World championship level.

Hayden had achieved much more than Hopper. Another motorcycledaily.com article:

<u>Is Nicky Hayden the Best 18 Year Old Ever; Thoughts on Honda's 2000 Roadracing Team</u>


Nicky Hayden turned 18 in July of this year, and, by the end of this racing season, he had (1) won the AMA 600cc SuperSport roadracing title, (2) won the Hagerstown half-mile dirt track race in the AMA Grand National Dirt Track series (also taking three runner-up finishes in that series), (3) finished second in the AMA Formula Extreme roadracing series; and (4) landed on the podium in an AMA Superbike race after just a few rides on the feisty Honda RC45 (beating his teammate Eric Bostrom, who was in his second season on the RC45, and who is none too shabby a rider himself).

We can't think of another 18 year old (17 for most of the season) in the history of racing who has accomplished as much as Nicky Hayden accomplished this year.

It is well accepted that being an accomplished AMA dirt tracker was the foundation for many national and world roadracing champions, including Kenny Roberts, Wayne Rainey and Eddie Lawson. Nicky Hayden may be the most gifted dirt tracker of them all (I'm sure you'll argue this one with me).

If Nicky Hayden is the most accomplished road racer in history for his age, how good will he get when he peaks? And when will that be?

Next year, Hayden will race AMA Superbikes full time alongside teammate Miguel Duhamel (the winningest AMA Superbike rider of all time). Together, they will dial in the new Honda RC51.

We know that Miguel will hate losing to a young kid like Nicky Hayden -- even more than he hates losing to Doug Chandler. It will be extremely interesting to watch these two ride the new Honda, but we think that the Honda will be competitive right out of the box, and that both Hayden and Duhamel will win races on this bike. Don't forget that Miguel Duhamel rode the Harley-Davidson VR1000 years ago in the early stages of its development, and did remarkably well considering the fact that the bike was essentially uncompetitive at that stage. He knows how to ride a twin.

Nicky Hayden knows how to ride a twin, as well (at least a dirt track twin). We think he will adapt to the RC51 very quickly. Anyone who can jump on an RC45 and put it on the podium in his first few races can adapt to a slower revving, better handling 1000cc V-twin Superbike.

All in all, Honda's roadracing team should be outstanding next year. We hope that Miguel Duhamel stays healthy (and that his leg has finally had enough time to fully heal). We also hope that Nicky Hayden continues to display the brilliant riding he displayed this year -- and wins multiple AMA Superbike races next year. We wouldn't be surprised.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jan 25 2008, 06:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll be honest .... I think Hayden needs a bigger bike ...... the 800's are too much the "sewing machine" for him ........ I also am of the camp that he would be good on a Duc. if he has to ride 800's.

And I'm not talking weight I'm talking grunt and torque and snappy nasty power curves here .... imagine Hayden on a 125!! ..... no?? ..... neither can I

The drop to 800's did not suit many of the riders out there .... Hayden, Edwards, Checa, Barros .... I think it suits the Stoners, Pedrosa's and Rossi's ... Lorenzo is going to find it good etc. etc.
I agree a ducati with a set-up like stoner's would seem well suited to nicky; ?point and shoot rather than corner speed riding as some of our other more technically erudite members have discussed previously. I guees he had the choice to go to ducati, but as jumkie says who could have foreseen the direction honda would take?

More p-chop of Rossi's day 1 off (nicked from Ride on Two this time ) :

2736:rossi_chop.jpg]
2737:vr_ballet.jpg]

LMFAO Yamaka!!
If anyones interested GPOne has some comparison times between Rossi and Stoner, although I'm not sure what it all means...


http://www.gpone.com/news/News.asp?NNews=1402

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jan 25 2008, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LMFAO Yamaka!!
If anyones interested GPOne has some comparison times between Rossi and Stoner, although I'm not sure what it all means...


http://www.gpone.com/news/News.asp?NNews=1402
I think that the first set of timings is Rossi's long run. On lap 15 he said he had a "rest" cos it was so hot. Apparently his long run was at a better race pace then at the Sepang race last year.

The second set of timings is Stoner doing a short "consistency" run and the times show that he is indeed consistent and fast.

But as I posted earlier, these are last years day 3 Sepang test times. Shows what you can't read into them :

Test times from last year:

Sepang Test - Day 3 (1/24/07) Results:
1. Valentino Rossi (ITA) Yamaha 2'00.936 (.7 off 990cc pole in 2006)
2. John Hopkins (USA) Suzuki 2'01.026
3. Loris Capirossi (ITA) Ducati 2'01.274
4. Dani Pedrosa (SPA) Honda 2'01.664
5. Chris Vermeulen (AUS) Suzuki 2'01.691
6. Randy de Puniet (FRA) Kawasaki 2'01.878
7. Nicky Hayden (USA) Honda 2'01.884
8. Colin Edwards (USA) Yamaha 2'02.266
9. Casey Stoner (AUS) Ducati 2'02.407 (Casey who?)
10. Marco Melandri (ITA) Honda 2'02.489
11. Carlos Checa (SPA) Honda 2'02.583
12. Alex Barros (BRA) Ducati 2'02.630
13. Toni Elias (SPA) Honda 2'02.927
14. Alex Hofmann (GER) Ducati 2'03.040
15. Shinya Nakano (JPN) Honda 2'03.077
16. Makoto Tamada (JPN) Yamaha 2'03.308
17. Kenny Roberts (USA) Team KR 2'03.330
18. Olivier Jacque (FRA) Kawasaki 2'03.592
19. Shinichi Ito (JPN) Bridgestone Test 2'03.973

Rossi on crashnet sounds pretty relaxed about the bridgestones; he was 0.3 of a second or so faster than lorenzo on race tyres and said the tyres lasted to the end of his race simulation which was the main thing he was looking for. Also positive about the pneumatic engine.

He praised lorenzo and said he thought they were the strongest overall team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 25 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He praised lorenzo and said he thought they were the strongest overall team.
kinda like him & edwards last seaason... theres no reason why they could'nt of finnished 1-2 last season... according to ce.

yeah i dont think vale was that bothered about times to much he is more concered about if the stones will last race distance, also working harder to get the bike setup's for the different types of tyres and also put the new motor throuh its paces.
all in all i think he has adapted pretty well to the stones and looks like he collected enough data for yam and bridgestone to rummage throuh.
it was a good choice because we know how abusive the yam is on its rubber and i think the bridgstone durability can cope with that.

yea Vale is a bit ahead of Lorenzo on race tyres but hes still learning how to adapt to the bridgestone qualifiers.

Michelin have been making the best qualifiers forever it seems but the race tyre they all go backwards.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jan 25 2008, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yea Vale is a bit ahead of Lorenzo on race tyres but hes still learning how to adapt to the bridgestone qualifiers.

Michelin have been making the best qualifiers forever it seems but the race tyre they all go backwards.

Like i said in a previous post,Edwards says that Michelin has met the challange and then some.Also said it was not right to have doubted thier ability to come back in 08.Is that spokesperson speak or has Michelin met the challenge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 25 2008, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like i said in a previous post,Edwards says that Michelin has met the challange and then some.Also said it was not right to have doubted thier ability to come back in 08.Is that spokesperson speak or has Michelin met the challenge.

its hard to know until we go to other tracks and conditions.

when its extremely hot the bridgestone lasts longer and they also get up to speed much faster.

From what i read of michelin they are working on the last area but the compounds are roughly the same as 07.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 24 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Congrats Lex, well done. Now lets keep that crystal ball moving the planets just right for some race wins this year, eh.

Thanks Jumk. I can't promise you I can line the stars up to help Nicky win, but if you fade my race days picks you can make a fortune.

Maybe I should bet against Nicky and see what happens.