Is now the time to march Dani to the gallows?
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Is wsbk even on Spanish tv? Baturro?
Maybe that's about to change now
Maybe that's about to change now
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According to the list on here:
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_gpwin.htm
The following riders have/had a lesser right to be in GP than Dani:
.
Freddie SPENCER
(2 titles) 20 Linto 1 Barry SHEENE
(2 titles) 19 Koenig 1 Wayne GARDNER
(1 title) 18 Sanvenero 1 Alex CRIVILLE
(1 title) 15
Randy MAMOLA 13 Max BIAGGI 13 Phil READ
(2 titles) 11 Sete GIBERNAU 9 Loris CAPIROSSI 9 Gary HOCKING
(1 title) 8 Luca CADALORA 8 Kenny ROBERTS
Jr. (1 title) 8 Alex BARROS 7 Umberto MASETTI
(2 titles) 6 Marco LUCCHINELLI
(1 title) 6 Leslie GRAHAM
(1 title) 5 Wil HARTOG 5 Franco UNCINI
(1 title) 5 Marco MELANDRI 5 Reg ARMSTRONG 4 Libero LIBERATI
(1 title) 4 John KOCINSKI 4 Tadayuki OKADA 4 Alfredo MILANI 3 John HARTLE 3 Alberto PAGANI 3 Jack FINDLAY 3 Pat HENNEN 3 Johnny CECOTTO 3 Daryl BEATTIE 3 Norick ABE 3 Garry McCOY 3 Nicky HAYDEN
(1 title) 3 Nello PAGANI 2 Fergus ANDERSON 2 Ray AMM 2 Jim REDMAN 2 Jarno SAARINEN 2 Virgino FERRARI 2 Jack MIDDELBURG 2 Carlos CHECA 2 Makoto TAMADA 2 Harold DANIELL 1 Bill DORAN 1 Jack BRETT 1 Cromie McCANDLESS 1 Ken KAVANAGH 1 Pierre MONNERET 1 Dickie DALE 1 Giuseppe COLNAGO 1 Bill LOMAS 1 Bob McINTYRE 1 Remo VENTURI 1 Jorge KISSLING 1 Alan SHEPHERD 1 Benedicto
CALDARELLE 1 Jack AHEARN 1 .... CREITH 1 Frantisek STASTNY 1 Godfrey NASH 1 Angelo BERGAMONTI 1 Dave SIMMONDS 1 Chas MORTIMER 1 Kim NEWCOMBE 1 Edmund CZIHAK 1 Franco BONERA 1 Phil CARPENTER 1 Teuvo LANSIVUORI 1 Hideo KANAYA 1 Mick GRANT 1 Tom HERRON 1 John WILLIAMS 1 John NEWBOLD 1 Dennis IRELAND 1 Boet Van DULMEN 1 Michel FRUTSCHI 1 Takazumi KATAYAMA 1 Christian SARRON 1 Kevin MAGEE 1 Pier Francesco
CHILI 1 Alberto PUIG 1 Simon CRAFAR 1 Regis LACONI 1 Tohru UKAWA 1 Toni ELIAS 1 Troy BAYLISS 1 Chris VERMEULEN 1 Andrea DOVIZIOSO 1 Ben SPIES 1
And I would proffer that these riders right to be there is proportional to the formula :
Riders wins / Dani's wins ( 22 )
ie. lets just say you were ........ Jumkie ( just a random choice ...... not suggesting too much that Jumkie is a incoherent wacker ) and lets just say that Jumkie <strike>followed</strike> ....... <strike>liked</strike> ...... <strike>loved</strike> ........ wanted to have Nicky haydens babies, then we could work out that Nicky is 0.136 the rider that Dani is hence he has the same value in being i GP.
incoherent sooking wackers!!!!
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_gpwin.htm
The following riders have/had a lesser right to be in GP than Dani:
.
Freddie SPENCER
(2 titles) 20 Linto 1 Barry SHEENE
(2 titles) 19 Koenig 1 Wayne GARDNER
(1 title) 18 Sanvenero 1 Alex CRIVILLE
(1 title) 15
Randy MAMOLA 13 Max BIAGGI 13 Phil READ
(2 titles) 11 Sete GIBERNAU 9 Loris CAPIROSSI 9 Gary HOCKING
(1 title) 8 Luca CADALORA 8 Kenny ROBERTS
Jr. (1 title) 8 Alex BARROS 7 Umberto MASETTI
(2 titles) 6 Marco LUCCHINELLI
(1 title) 6 Leslie GRAHAM
(1 title) 5 Wil HARTOG 5 Franco UNCINI
(1 title) 5 Marco MELANDRI 5 Reg ARMSTRONG 4 Libero LIBERATI
(1 title) 4 John KOCINSKI 4 Tadayuki OKADA 4 Alfredo MILANI 3 John HARTLE 3 Alberto PAGANI 3 Jack FINDLAY 3 Pat HENNEN 3 Johnny CECOTTO 3 Daryl BEATTIE 3 Norick ABE 3 Garry McCOY 3 Nicky HAYDEN
(1 title) 3 Nello PAGANI 2 Fergus ANDERSON 2 Ray AMM 2 Jim REDMAN 2 Jarno SAARINEN 2 Virgino FERRARI 2 Jack MIDDELBURG 2 Carlos CHECA 2 Makoto TAMADA 2 Harold DANIELL 1 Bill DORAN 1 Jack BRETT 1 Cromie McCANDLESS 1 Ken KAVANAGH 1 Pierre MONNERET 1 Dickie DALE 1 Giuseppe COLNAGO 1 Bill LOMAS 1 Bob McINTYRE 1 Remo VENTURI 1 Jorge KISSLING 1 Alan SHEPHERD 1 Benedicto
CALDARELLE 1 Jack AHEARN 1 .... CREITH 1 Frantisek STASTNY 1 Godfrey NASH 1 Angelo BERGAMONTI 1 Dave SIMMONDS 1 Chas MORTIMER 1 Kim NEWCOMBE 1 Edmund CZIHAK 1 Franco BONERA 1 Phil CARPENTER 1 Teuvo LANSIVUORI 1 Hideo KANAYA 1 Mick GRANT 1 Tom HERRON 1 John WILLIAMS 1 John NEWBOLD 1 Dennis IRELAND 1 Boet Van DULMEN 1 Michel FRUTSCHI 1 Takazumi KATAYAMA 1 Christian SARRON 1 Kevin MAGEE 1 Pier Francesco
CHILI 1 Alberto PUIG 1 Simon CRAFAR 1 Regis LACONI 1 Tohru UKAWA 1 Toni ELIAS 1 Troy BAYLISS 1 Chris VERMEULEN 1 Andrea DOVIZIOSO 1 Ben SPIES 1
And I would proffer that these riders right to be there is proportional to the formula :
Riders wins / Dani's wins ( 22 )
ie. lets just say you were ........ Jumkie ( just a random choice ...... not suggesting too much that Jumkie is a incoherent wacker ) and lets just say that Jumkie <strike>followed</strike> ....... <strike>liked</strike> ...... <strike>loved</strike> ........ wanted to have Nicky haydens babies, then we could work out that Nicky is 0.136 the rider that Dani is hence he has the same value in being i GP.
incoherent sooking wackers!!!!
In Spain, SBK has never had the following that GP has, but it has been getting more attention in the last 5 years. But no where the support. GP has after hour programs and interviews, and SBK is starting to get that, but late night and on the "lesser" channels.
I attended both SBK and GP at Aragon and the crowd at GP is nearly triple. Police presence and dumb ... traffic quadruple!
I attended both SBK and GP at Aragon and the crowd at GP is nearly triple. Police presence and dumb ... traffic quadruple!
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BarryMachine
You crawled outta your cave for THAT Mr. Stark?
3607231378521761
According to the list on here:
blah, blah, blah, incoherent babble, blah, blah, blah, incoherent babble, blah, blah, blah, incoherent babble,
blah, blah, blah, incoherent babble, blah, blah, blah, incoherent babble, blah, blah, blah, incoherent babble,
incoherent sooking wackers!!!!
You crawled outta your cave for THAT Mr. Stark?
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baturro
I hope one day it could be that big here, I can't go one day without seeing something about nascar while flipping the tv channels. GP doesn't race enough to ever become big here, and it doesn't lead to some kind of playoffs or big climax.
I hope one day it could be that big here, I can't go one day without seeing something about nascar while flipping the tv channels. GP doesn't race enough to ever become big here, and it doesn't lead to some kind of playoffs or big climax.
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stiefel
of course you are right. i`m just tired to see (almost always) the spanish flag and hear the spanish anthem at every gp. i was celebrating moto2 in brno with an extra beer just because was no spanish on the podium. i just like a little diversity.
of course you are right. i`m just tired to see (almost always) the spanish flag and hear the spanish anthem at every gp. i was celebrating moto2 in brno with an extra beer just because was no spanish on the podium. i just like a little diversity.
Sorry, Gekko, but in recent past, when it was the Star Spangled Banner playing every other race, did you get a little tired of that? Advance Australia Fair get a little old a few years back?? Ill Canto Degli Italiani must have been a bore for you during the Rossi era...
To me, none of the anthems get old, even if it gets played three times at each GP. In Spain's case, it show that the country is doing something right in terms of rider development. In my eyes, and many others, it is a clear fact that CEV (Campeonato Espanol de Velocidad) is the best feeder series in the globe. This did not happen over night. Spain has been working hard for this to happen. And it is not only Spaniards that have come though the program. Casey Stoner, Stephan Bradl are two that come to mind.
So not only to you Gekko, but to all getting annoyed by all the Marcha Real (Royal March). Suck it up, or do something productive about it. Send a check to your local racer.
No reason to be bitter cause Spain is producing better motorcycling riders than your country. Historically, Great Britain and Italy have been the win champs. Don't be jealous, work harder.
To me, none of the anthems get old, even if it gets played three times at each GP. In Spain's case, it show that the country is doing something right in terms of rider development. In my eyes, and many others, it is a clear fact that CEV (Campeonato Espanol de Velocidad) is the best feeder series in the globe. This did not happen over night. Spain has been working hard for this to happen. And it is not only Spaniards that have come though the program. Casey Stoner, Stephan Bradl are two that come to mind.
So not only to you Gekko, but to all getting annoyed by all the Marcha Real (Royal March). Suck it up, or do something productive about it. Send a check to your local racer.
No reason to be bitter cause Spain is producing better motorcycling riders than your country. Historically, Great Britain and Italy have been the win champs. Don't be jealous, work harder.
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stiefel
It certainly is to Dorna.
Mi amigo Baturro, I disagree with ur assertion that its just happenstance its an all Spanish podium most of time, but no use retyping everything Ive written the last two months. If u and others want to believe its just because they are the "best" and have got their positions based soley on "merit", at this point ur not gonna be convinced otherwise.
In a nutshell, Spanish riders overwhelming are facilitated the most competitive seats, robust favortism when promoted into the series in all categories, its own feeder series' are reserved exclusively, and nullification of rules to boot.
I will however agree with u there is 'one happenstance' that has helped the most, and this is despite all the comprehensive machinates to elevate Spanish riders, that was Casey Stoner. The surpression of his talent (by design or not) has been perhaps the most effective for Spanish riders. "Helping" him on to a 2nd rate 250, then 3rd tier tires in 06, then sequestered on Ducati most of his career, ultimately resulting in him resigning/quiting/retiring (whatever) has had a great impact. I have argued, without this 'happenstance' quite possibly the only Spanish Champion would have been Alex Criville (Lorenzo odds would have been surely a longer shot for sure). This should give anyone pause to consider this complete ........ myth about the Spanish conveyor of producing superior riders. That was the point somebody was trying to make when they pointed to the lack of Spanish domination in Wsbk, and any other competitive national series in the world. They have sucked there because nobody was giving them the same welfare status they enjoy in GP. Thats because once again, the indication is the only place they can make it is in GP thanks to the forces of favortism and facilitation.
It certainly is to Dorna.
Mi amigo Baturro, I disagree with ur assertion that its just happenstance its an all Spanish podium most of time, but no use retyping everything Ive written the last two months. If u and others want to believe its just because they are the "best" and have got their positions based soley on "merit", at this point ur not gonna be convinced otherwise.
In a nutshell, Spanish riders overwhelming are facilitated the most competitive seats, robust favortism when promoted into the series in all categories, its own feeder series' are reserved exclusively, and nullification of rules to boot.
I will however agree with u there is 'one happenstance' that has helped the most, and this is despite all the comprehensive machinates to elevate Spanish riders, that was Casey Stoner. The surpression of his talent (by design or not) has been perhaps the most effective for Spanish riders. "Helping" him on to a 2nd rate 250, then 3rd tier tires in 06, then sequestered on Ducati most of his career, ultimately resulting in him resigning/quiting/retiring (whatever) has had a great impact. I have argued, without this 'happenstance' quite possibly the only Spanish Champion would have been Alex Criville (Lorenzo odds would have been surely a longer shot for sure). This should give anyone pause to consider this complete ........ myth about the Spanish conveyor of producing superior riders. That was the point somebody was trying to make when they pointed to the lack of Spanish domination in Wsbk, and any other competitive national series in the world. They have sucked there because nobody was giving them the same welfare status they enjoy in GP. Thats because once again, the indication is the only place they can make it is in GP thanks to the forces of favortism and facilitation.
Jumkie
I have to say I don't see much evidence Jorge ever got much in the way of preferment, he never to my knowledge had long-term Repsol sponsorship or the like from early in his junior days (EDIT Fortuna sponsored his 250 team, but have no influence as far as I know over premier class seats particularly at Yamaha ).
It is also possible that if Stoner had won a further championship or championships soon after 2007 he might have decided to retire even earlier. He always said he had no ambition to match Mick Doohan or whatever. Dorna reputedly also susidised LCR's entry into the premier class in the first place to get an Australian rider in the field, which is not the same as them wanting him to win multiple championships though I guess.
If Dorna had a policy (and I accept Lex's argument that it is possible that the rule changes which followed Stoner's 2 championships were coincidental to him rather than aimed at thwarting him) it was anyone but Stoner rather than anyone Spanish imo. The sudden disappearance of their apparent animus towards Honda once Stoner was no longer contending for them did rather stretch coincidence for me at least.
The other point is that the current and previous formulae were not of Dorna's design, but largely Honda's to suit their mass centralisation engineering philosophy, particularly the 800 formula, and some (also Lex I think) have argued Dani was picked to suit this rather than the other way around. Certainly riders who develop in the Spanish national series seem to suit the current gp bikes, whilst other countries who have tradition in the sport, such as the US and to a lesser extent Australia, race different bikes in their national series. I don't think we are going to return to the days of superbike riders prospering in the premier class as they did in the 500 days while the bikes remain as they are currently.
I do think the situation now is that Spain is the place where the sport is vastly popular, with more competitors and programs to foster such competitors, so I think Spain being prominent in the sport can be likened to previous eras when the UK and Italy were the hotbeds of the sport as Baturro has said. Espargaro being the next next big thing is pushing it though imo, as was MM's treatment for numerous on track incidents in moto 2, brilliant rider and deserving of a factory Honda ride though he obviously is.
I have to say I don't see much evidence Jorge ever got much in the way of preferment, he never to my knowledge had long-term Repsol sponsorship or the like from early in his junior days (EDIT Fortuna sponsored his 250 team, but have no influence as far as I know over premier class seats particularly at Yamaha ).
It is also possible that if Stoner had won a further championship or championships soon after 2007 he might have decided to retire even earlier. He always said he had no ambition to match Mick Doohan or whatever. Dorna reputedly also susidised LCR's entry into the premier class in the first place to get an Australian rider in the field, which is not the same as them wanting him to win multiple championships though I guess.
If Dorna had a policy (and I accept Lex's argument that it is possible that the rule changes which followed Stoner's 2 championships were coincidental to him rather than aimed at thwarting him) it was anyone but Stoner rather than anyone Spanish imo. The sudden disappearance of their apparent animus towards Honda once Stoner was no longer contending for them did rather stretch coincidence for me at least.
The other point is that the current and previous formulae were not of Dorna's design, but largely Honda's to suit their mass centralisation engineering philosophy, particularly the 800 formula, and some (also Lex I think) have argued Dani was picked to suit this rather than the other way around. Certainly riders who develop in the Spanish national series seem to suit the current gp bikes, whilst other countries who have tradition in the sport, such as the US and to a lesser extent Australia, race different bikes in their national series. I don't think we are going to return to the days of superbike riders prospering in the premier class as they did in the 500 days while the bikes remain as they are currently.
I do think the situation now is that Spain is the place where the sport is vastly popular, with more competitors and programs to foster such competitors, so I think Spain being prominent in the sport can be likened to previous eras when the UK and Italy were the hotbeds of the sport as Baturro has said. Espargaro being the next next big thing is pushing it though imo, as was MM's treatment for numerous on track incidents in moto 2, brilliant rider and deserving of a factory Honda ride though he obviously is.
