Is now the time to march Dani to the gallows?

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Whatever the usual suspects say, Danny has helped Honda win the constructors title for the last two years, and will this year, with corporate pride very high in Japan the constructors title is very important to Honda, he can win races every year and ride shotgun when required, this is what Yamaha hoped Rossi would be doing but that is another story.
 
michaelm
3609811378978367

No doubt that Dani looked the best available rider when Honda hired him, and I agree it is hard to come up with someone even now from outside the proper factory seats who would be likely to outperform him on a factory Honda. Honda have actually said they prefer not to have 2 Spanish riders though.


 


He as recently as last year was the best rider in the world on his day, of which there were several. I just don't see his luck, or perhaps more particularly his <u>physical fragility</u>, changing at this stage. I am not sure how long he will want to continue himself if he doesn't think he can beat MM for a championship, he looks to be fairly sick of fracturing his collar bones. However as I understand it he already is contracted for 2014.
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I think this is his main problem, and when he does do damage you can see reluctance in his riding for quite a while afterwards, which is in stark contrast to Mark, however he is very young and i'm sure that will change over time.
 
IMO, a lot of the problem the non-Spanish/non-European world in general has with being competitive in MotoGP is that no one else can realistically get in on the ground floor of the series.


 


For quite a long time, Australians and Americans won everything in the 500cc class, despite the fact that to a man none of them came through the 125s/250s to get there.  The reason for this, in my opinion, is that at the time the smaller classes, while very competitive, did not teach the skillset that was necessary to be able to properly ride the 500s at their limit.  So for a lot of years, otherwise very good European riders were shut out of any chance at success in the big class, because all of the training they had racing motorcycles up to that point was not very applicable to the skills the 500s needed to go fast.  Even despite their superior track knowledge and being a part of the show for years, they simply couldn't ride the beasts that the 500s were well.


 


That started to change at the end of the Doohan era.  Criville/Roberts/Rossi had all come up through the feeder classes, and from that point on, most of those who have had any success in the big class have followed the same path.  Hayden won a title and a few races bucking that trend, Spies looked good early bucking that trend, Crutchlow looks good now bucking that trend.... but very few have besides them (Vermeulen and Tamada are the only other two race winners I can think of off the cuff), and there don't seem to be any more coming in that look likely to.


 


So for whatever reason--tc, better tires, other electronics, whatever--the route to MotoGP success seems to have irrevocably changed to being routed through Moto3/2, because it certainly seems that the skills learned there are now applicable to the big class.  Add in the familiarity with the race tracks and the MotoGP circus, and it has become an advantage which is probably too big for anyone but the most supremely talented outsider to overcome.  I know that the Red Bull Cup is supposed to help non-Europeans come along, but for the most part, the infrastructure that is set up to bring the next generation of riders along is pretty firmly rooted in Spain.  There are, frankly, not very many Stoner families (people who will completely uproot their lives in another country to take their son to a foreign country so that he has a chance to race internationally), even if there were, say, a dozen Stoner-level talents in Australia/America, or Russia, or India, or Brazil, or wherever else.


 


Bottom line--if we ever want to see competitive riders from anywhere besides Spain, somebody's going to have to pony up the dosh to make a legitimate feeder series elsewhere, which can get the 15/16 year-olds into Moto3/2 on competitive bikes.  Given the state of the world economy and motorcycle racing's status as a fringe sport... I'm not holding my breath.
 
spottswoode
3610021379007417

IMO, a lot of the problem the non-Spanish/non-European world in general has with being competitive in MotoGP is that no one else can realistically get in on the ground floor of the series.


 


For quite a long time, Australians and Americans won everything in the 500cc class, despite the fact that to a man none of them came through the 125s/250s to get there.  The reason for this, in my opinion, is that at the time the smaller classes, while very competitive, did not teach the skillset that was necessary to be able to properly ride the 500s at their limit.  So for a lot of years, otherwise very good European riders were shut out of any chance at success in the big class, because all of the training they had racing motorcycles up to that point was not very applicable to the skills the 500s needed to go fast.  Even despite their superior track knowledge and being a part of the show for years, they simply couldn't ride the beasts that the 500s were well.


 


That started to change at the end of the Doohan era.  Criville/Roberts/Rossi had all come up through the feeder classes, and from that point on, most of those who have had any success in the big class have followed the same path.  Hayden won a title and a few races bucking that trend, Spies looked good early bucking that trend, Crutchlow looks good now bucking that trend.... but very few have besides them (Vermeulen and Tamada are the only other two race winners I can think of off the cuff), and there don't seem to be any more coming in that look likely to.


 


So for whatever reason--tc, better tires, other electronics, whatever--the route to MotoGP success seems to have irrevocably changed to being routed through Moto3/2, because it certainly seems that the skills learned there are now applicable to the big class.  Add in the familiarity with the race tracks and the MotoGP circus, and it has become an advantage which is probably too big for anyone but the most supremely talented outsider to overcome.  I know that the Red Bull Cup is supposed to help non-Europeans come along, but for the most part, the infrastructure that is set up to bring the next generation of riders along is pretty firmly rooted in Spain.  There are, frankly, not very many Stoner families (people who will completely uproot their lives in another country to take their son to a foreign country so that he has a chance to race internationally), even if there were, say, a dozen Stoner-level talents in Australia/America, or Russia, or India, or Brazil, or wherever else.


 


Bottom line--if we ever want to see competitive riders from anywhere besides Spain, somebody's going to have to pony up the dosh to make a legitimate feeder series elsewhere, which can get the 15/16 year-olds into Moto3/2 on competitive bikes.  Given the state of the world economy and motorcycle racing's status as a fringe sport... I'm not holding my breath.
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Very very well said.
 
I still contend as of right now, Pedrosa should have that 2nd bike from Repsol Honda for at least the next year or so.  Same with Rossi.  No one is really at their level just yet.  Redding won't be there anytime soon, Pol and his brother aren't there either.  Cal is the only one who you could say with more certainty, would be able to contend.  The entire state of GP right now is on thin ice and isn't as solid as any of us would like it I would suppose.  More bikes, more riders being able to compete.  I just hope we are on an upward turn vs. a downward.
 
Jumkie said:
I don't think we'll see another American title for a while. Unless somebody comes out of nowhere from AMA or some dirt championship... There's no Americans anywhere in the world championships that I think could win. Ben Spies is broken and I don't think he'll ever regain his confidence, and definitely won't be winning on the Duck...

Hayden had his shot
Edwards had his shot

Even if you gave all 3 of them a factory honda/yamaha, they wouldn't be able to match Marquez, Lorenzo or Pedrosa.

You guys like to .... all over Pedrosa but he is a really strong contender. He's been so close to titles only to be injured and out of the running. You guys act like he doesn't deserve his ride, but really, with the amount of podiums, wins, other class titles, it's just downright idiotic to say he doesn't deserve his seat. Just because he hasn't won a title. Nicky won a title by sheer luck and you guys are all over his .....

Elite, the problem with the argument is this notion of "deserve". Who deserves what? What does a "champion" or a rider "deserve"? (I'm assuming you are just looking at "results" without analysis to calculate this "deserve" factor, as you premise is to site Pedro's results.) Did Pedro "deserve" his own personal bike when his teammate was the actual "champion"? Did Rossi "deserve" to be awarded one of the only 4 win worthy bikes after finishing so poorly in the standings (that is results, right)? Did Stoner deserve for the league to effectively take away the tires relationship he had with his manufacture when he became the Ducati champion? Does P.Espargaro "deserve" a factory contract to ride a prototype when the champion elect is going to a CRT/Prody? Keep in mind Crutchlow was in affect made to leave Tech3 to make room for P.Espargaro, and gues where Cal's "results" are destined to be next year. Do the champions of their class "deserve" to be relegated to the back step respective of the riders they beat?

Agree about not having any American champions, but that is not because there isn't the talent, rather its because the series is hell bent on maintaining the Spanish GP welfare state. Salom and Zarco will be in Moto2 next year, the Frenchman was a champ, while the the Spaniard was a runners up to an American named JD Beach. Both the Zarco and Salom will probably do well in the series, certainly the Spaniard Salom can have something to celebrate as it was just announced he was signed to a Moto2 team. The American that beat him? Well he is battling with another Rookies Cup champ named Jacob Gange, both of these are being beat routinely (but just barely) by a lad named Cameron Beaubier. Dorna will continue to feed you their riders and you will continue to think they are the best, when the reality they simply are force-fed the opportunities to the world stage.
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Beaubier looks good. Like Gerloff too
 
With MotoGP going to pay TV, it's going to be interesting to see what happens to the viewing figures. If they drop considerably, this'll affect the value of MotoGP for sponsors, and could start a downwards spiral.
 
Geonerd
3624411380854292

Stumbled upon this engaging rant.  http://www.bikeme.tv/index.php/dani-pedrosa-motogps-biggest-parasite/


 


Jumkie's ghost writing career has really taken off lately!
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That's absurd, Pedrosa has won a good number of races and has been runner up to the title on more than one occasion. He's not a leach, he's a very competitive rider with some very bad luck, contrary to Nicky Hayden, who is a 3rd rate rider who won a championship by sheer luck and has done nothing since then and yet he still has a factory ride, albeit with Ducati....
 
AnnoyingTwit
3610571379058591

With MotoGP going to pay TV, it's going to be interesting to see what happens to the viewing figures. If they drop considerably, this'll affect the value of MotoGP for sponsors, and could start a downwards spiral.
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 You do know that MGP is an international sport don't you?


 


 


Not that our free to air viewing numbers hold much ........
 
has it not switched to a Sky pay channel in Italy as well?? Probably the biggest reason Rossi will stay put, if he leaves a top bike or the series altogether and they start charging at the same time.... i dont think many Italian subs would be sold. 


the move to BT sport will probably all but kill GP's in the UK, if we had a rider fighting for wins it maybe a bit different but next year our only hope goes Red so hmmm...
 
557953
3624591380877578

has it not switched to a Sky pay channel in Italy as well?? Probably the biggest reason Rossi will stay put, if he leaves a top bike or the series altogether and they start charging at the same time.... i dont think many Italian subs would be sold. 


the move to BT sport will probably all but kill GP's in the UK, if we had a rider fighting for wins it maybe a bit different but next year our only hope goes Red so hmmm...
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Agreed, UK viewing is finished.
 
barbedwirebiker
3624621380880094

Probably only a matter of time in Australia. I won't be getting pay tv to only watch motogp
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 We still have at least 5 years. I believe ONE signed a 5 year deal back when Stoner joined Honda ........ lucky us :lol:


 


And that was after Talpa's threats to close ONE down cos he wanted it back on pay TV.
 
What is this? Everybody's first day at PS? That article is not long enough by half to have been written by Jums ;)
 

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