Has your view on Dani changed after his Brno win?

I was impressed that Dani had some fight in him, and won through battling rather than riding off into the sunset when he does win - sure made the race very interesting!



As for the spoilers - think you now know the forum etiquette ratdeal - however, anyone that comes onto a site dedicated to bike racing, on race day, without having seen the race still only has themselves to blame if they see comments outside the main race thread.



I've been camping over the weekend so have only just seen the race today, but I did foolishly go on Facebook and happen to see a post by Roger slagging (rightly so) the BBC for the podium coverage of the BRIT on the podium - doh!

chopperman said:

Ah

I may be wrong but i'm sure the 990 hrc use pneumatics towards the end of the season to give a higher rev ceiling but when you drink as much Absinthe as me the old brain does get time warped now and again

I think the Kawasaki was the first to use them back in 04-05?

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Which refreshingly proves you post off the top of your head which I know anyway, unlike certain Google Wikki merchants around here - one antipodean member in particular springs to mind.



At work - gotta be quick. The evo bike was very different in respect of its mass centralisation - I think corner entry was greatly improved but it compromised other things which hampered Hayden for the first half of the season along with the diaphragm clutch which he actually preferred but proved to be a real thorn in his side. Hayden also wound up ironically testing a raft of internals for the '07 Pedrocycle...a bike designed around Dani!! Pedrosa was not saddled with this onerous developmental programme.

Jumkie said:

And I'll add, as Arrabi mentioned (which was so obvious it should not have even been needed to point out) but that acceleration advantage he has over the M1 going up the hill after the Ses, leading to the final turns, was crucial to that margin of victory.

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Brno is a handling track. Apart from that small section it is all Yamaha territory. If anything, Lorenzo on his M1 shouldn't even be in the position to have to fight a handicaped (new tires anyone?) Honda with a handicaped/disadvantaged rider on it (a midget on a fire-breathing 1000 Honda GP bike on a track as demanding as Brno riding at record pace for 23 consecutive laps is bound to have some obstacles to overcome in comparisson to someone of JL's size on a sweet handling M1).



It was evident that Pedro was having problems negotiating the turns (and he himself admited after the race: "my bike was sliding a lot in the middle of the corner and it didn’t turn very well. I had to spin with the throttle to make it turn..."). The result of having to spin/steer with the rear to make the bike turn is that it puts excessive heat in the tire and wears the tyre much faster. And of course we don't have the past years durable/resistant tires anymore. Chatter was also visible on Pedro's bike when they showed a slow mo.



In the last stages of the race it was visible the Honda was becoming more and more of a handful to ride (with poor grip) while the Yamaha looked always to be on rails and was being held up by the Honda in the turns.

With this track having a lot of right hand corners (thus bad for Honda's chatter) I was not even expecting Pedro to be on Lorenzo's pace this weekend, let alone beating him for the win.



It was the rider who made the difference in the outcome of this race, although you will never admit it.

Zootalaws said:

'Under-performed' and 'failed to be competitive are worlds apart. I replied to the claim that he had failed to be competitive.



But has he under-performed? He has been in the unlucky position that when his ducks have been lined up, he's had some form of catastrophe, when that catastrophe has visited someone else, there's been a freak on a faster bike.



You, as a racer, should see his record and know that isn't the scorecard of an under-performer.



To me, he is a hard trier, that has been unlucky to be in one of the deepest pools of GP talent for decades.

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I agree and disagree. You're right, they are different but not worlds apart on his case. He's always been the nearly man, winning a few races a year but never fighting until the end for the championship. With the backing he's had and the fact he was clear number 1 at Honda from 07 to 10 without being in contention for a championship late in the season means hes under performed. His results have been great number 2 rider but not as good as clear number 1 support on a factory Honda he's been getting as Spain's next big thing when he entered the sport.



If you disagree look at the last Spanish double 250 world champ; Lorenzo. Year 1 he was a quick crasher. Year two he was faster and crashed a bit less and year 3 he dethroned. One other than Valentino Rossi on the same bike. Pedders has remained stagnant in comparison and therefore has under performed. Certainly by a big racing corporation like Honda he has and I personally think stoner retiring saved his ride for 2013

BBSB said:

It was the rider who made the difference in the outcome of this race, although you will never admit it.

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If I'm honest...I think you may be right.



My sheer dislike of the diminutive one has blinded me. He could ride like a demon - hellfire spitting from his exhaust and brimstone flaming in his wake but he'd still have a charisma bypass and the personality of a hatstand.



Now Johnny Rea...that's a different matter

BBSB said:

Brno is a handling track. Apart from that small section it is all Yamaha territory. If anything, Lorenzo on his M1 shouldn't even be in the position to have to fight a handicaped (new tires anyone?) Honda with a handicaped/disadvantaged rider on it (a midget on a fire-breathing 1000 Honda GP bike on a track as demanding as Brno riding at record pace for 23 consecutive laps is bound to have some obstacles to overcome in comparisson to someone of JL's size on a sweet handling M1).



It was evident that Pedro was having problems negotiating the turns (and he himself admited after the race: "my bike was sliding a lot in the middle of the corner and it didn’t turn very well. I had to spin with the throttle to make it turn..."). The result of having to spin/steer with the rear to make the bike turn is that it puts excessive heat in the tire and wears the tyre much faster. And of course we don't have the past years durable/resistant tires anymore. Chatter was also visible on Pedro's bike when they showed a slow mo.



In the last stages of the race it was visible the Honda was becoming more and more of a handful to ride (with poor grip) while the Yamaha looked always to be on rails and was being held up by the Honda in the turns.

With this track having a lot of right hand corners (thus bad for Honda's chatter) I was not even expecting Pedro to be on Lorenzo's pace this weekend, let alone beating him for the win.



It was the rider who made the difference in the outcome of this race, although you will never admit it.

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Your entire post made it sound like Pedro was on some .... 2nd tier CRT. He is on the best bike on the gird, period. Will you admit it, can you even discern it (doubt it from your post)? I'm ok with you saying the rider made the difference in the outcome of this race, I agree, as it came down to the last few corners, and Lorenzo ended up making the mistake while Pedro negotiated Jorge's attempts at riding defensively into the better race line, that is, Pedro was flawless when it counted. But I'm not going to suddenly forget that the Honda out accelerated the Yamaha up the hill (see the helo shot). Yes, both bikes have their strong points, and the elevation change made Pedro's excellent battle possible for him to execute flawlessly. No acceleration advantage, and I doubt he would have been able to come along side JLo who was trying to cover the line. That RCV is plenty good. Lets not start downplaying it now. That is not saying that it rode itself, so get off your high horse dude. Dani is getting plenty of credit. The question of this thread was, has this changed my opinion of him, my answer, no, not really. Maybe with the only caveat as I said in my original race thread post, this should be counted "as his best performance" ever. And my take on him being perennially on the best kit is fact, undisputable. Nonetheless, as I said before, I was "impressed" with Pedro's performance at Brno. He won "fair and square". I still don't like him, so deal with it buddy.

BEN said:

I was impressed that Dani had some fight in him, and won through battling rather than riding off into the sunset when he does win - sure made the race very interesting!



As for the spoilers - think you now know the forum etiquette ratdeal

- however, anyone that comes onto a site dedicated to bike racing, on race day, without having seen the race still only has themselves to blame if they see comments outside the main race thread.



I've been camping over the weekend so have only just seen the race today, but I did foolishly go on Facebook and happen to see a post by Roger slagging (rightly so) the BBC for the podium coverage of the BRIT on the podium - doh!

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Sorry about that ben, guess i did .... up a bit but i just lost my temper at the BBC. Still waiting for their response to my complaint by the way.

Arrabbiata1 said:

If I'm honest...I think you may be right.



My sheer dislike of the diminutive one has blinded me. He could ride like a demon - hellfire spitting from his exhaust and brimstone flaming in his wake but he'd still have a charisma bypass and the personality of a hatstand.



Now Johnny Rea...that's a different matter

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A different matter, ah yes, more like the lack of matter to be exact. I'm not so sure about JRea having much of a personality. His interviews look like what I imagine a sedated chipmunck would look and sound like if they were human. So in the personality department, a cardboard box has him beat. Now racecraft is a whole other can of worms. I'm sure by now you read my take on this weekends Wsbk event, haha.

Jumkie said:

A different matter, ah yes, more like the lack of matter to be exact.

I'm not so sure about JRea having much of a personality. His interviews look like what I imagine a sedated chipmunck would look and sound like if they were human. So in the personality department, a cardboard box has him beat. Now racecraft is a whole other can of worms. I'm sure by now you read my take on this weekends Wsbk event, haha.

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No - you've been on my ignore list - I've taken you off now...purely for comic value but I refuse to indulge in your irrational hate filled attacks upon such an upstanding member of the race community and well rounded clean rider.



If Rea substitutes for Casey and takes out Dani in the process I'm sure you will allow yourself a wry smile....if he takes out Nicky I shall immediately take refuge from the fallout in darkest Papua New Guinea.

chopperman said:

Sorry about that ben, guess i did .... up a bit but i just lost my temper at the BBC. Still waiting for their response to my complaint by the way.

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Ha not your fault mate! I haven't forgiven them for when they cut the coverage ages with a handful of laps left for a REPEAT of a rugby match, that they showed live the day before! No idea

BEN said:

Ha not your fault mate! I haven't forgiven them for when they cut the coverage ages with a handful of laps left for a REPEAT of a rugby match, that they showed live the day before! No idea

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There is just no excuse for it now with the many bbc channels and red button. trouble is we have no say, even if we vote with our feet they still get paid. I will post up there response (if i get one). My bet is it will be a standard type reply saying " we have to cater for the majority". Like the majority want to see a postponed triathlon or a repeated rugby highlight.

If you want to make them jump through hoops directly request a response from a human being not a standard reply. Also outline what you don't want to hear such as "minority sport", request a detailed response on how they are going to fix the problems ram home that you will be very upset if you receive a standard fob off. Keep a copy of what you have sent, if the reply is not up to standard send it again highlighting why their answer wasn't good enough & requesting a reply from a human being again.



It will take a little time but you will have forced their hand to look into it properly. They won't do .... all else, but you will have made some poor ....... sweat.

The Hondas have been strong ever since Pedrosa took the entire new 2013 bike and Stoner just took the engine. I wonder how they would look without those updates?



Pedro rode well but I think Lorenzo partly threw it away through his mistake. One thing to throw out there - has pedro finally grown a set and learnt to battle? In the old days, Rossi used to almost scare him away by immediately re-passing him and not letting him get in front. Should Lorenzo have tried to break him earlier instead of allowing him ahead to follow for a while? Was that a flaw in his race strategy? I don't have a view one way or another except that there was a definite difference in the size of the nuts pedro was carrying at Brno compared with other battles in earlier years.

Jumkie said:

Your entire post made it sound like Pedro was on some .... 2nd tier CRT. He is on the best bike on the gird, period. Will you admit it, can you even discern it (doubt it from your post)? I'm ok with you saying the rider made the difference in the outcome of this race, I agree, as it came down to the last few corners, and Lorenzo ended up making the mistake while Pedro negotiated Jorge's attempts at riding defensively into the better race line, that is, Pedro was flawless when it counted. But I'm not going to suddenly forget that the Honda out accelerated the Yamaha up the hill (see the helo shot). Yes, both bikes have their strong points, and the elevation change made Pedro's excellent battle possible for him to execute flawlessly. No acceleration advantage, and I doubt he would have been able to come along side JLo who was trying to cover the line. That RCV is plenty good. Lets not start downplaying it now. That is not saying that it rode itself, so get off your high horse dude. Dani is getting plenty of credit. The question of this thread was, has this changed my opinion of him, my answer, no, not really. Maybe with the only caveat as I said in my original race thread post, this should be counted "as his best performance" ever. And my take on him being perennially on the best kit is fact, undisputable. Nonetheless, as I said before, I was "impressed" with Pedro's performance at Brno. He won "fair and square". I still don't like him, so deal with it buddy.

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At this point I think I should mention that I'm no Dani fanboy. Although at the beginning when I started watching MotoGP back in 2007 I used to be a fan but that was before I started to better notice and understand his personality, that like most of motogp fans, I simply dislike. So, in truth I was more of a fan of his riding abilities and to be honest I still am.



BTW, when I said "a midget on a fire-breathing 1000 Honda GP bike on a track as demanding as Brno riding at record pace for 23 consecutive laps is bound to have some obstacles to overcome in comparisson to someone of JL's size on a sweet handling M1" I was obviously referring to Pedro's stature as a disadvantage.



"Your entire post made it sound like Pedro was on some .... 2nd tier CRT"



Haha, no. I was just remind you some facts regarding the different equipment of JL and DP and which one is the better ride for the track in question.

My opinion regarding which one is the best bike still stands. The 2012 Yamaha M1 is still the overall best package. It's the ride to have in the majority of the tracks, incl. Brno.



"Pedro was flawless when it counted. But I'm not going to suddenly forget that the Honda out accelerated the Yamaha up the hill"



...And as I said, given that JL had the fastest bike for this race he should've been well clear of DP's Honda to let that happen. So no excuses.



"That RCV is plenty good. Lets not start downplaying it now"



I agree. Plenty good. Unfortunately not as good as the Yamaha, though. "Downplaying"? No, just stating fact. The RC213V is a great bike but was handicapped by the introduction of the new front tire which only seems to work well on the Yamaha bike.



"And my take on him being perennially on the best kit is fact, undisputable"



Hmmm I wouldn't be so certain about that. But I think it's better we don't go there. Besides, I don't think I have the patience to discuss such a controversial topic, specially since my english is not my strong point.

BBSB said:

Hmmm I wouldn't be so certain about that. But I think it's better we don't go there. Besides, I don't think I have the patience to discuss such a controversial topic, specially since my english is not my strong point.

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Your English is more than adequate. In fact your English is significantly better than most British people.

Jumkie said:

Your entire post made it sound like Pedro was on some .... 2nd tier CRT. He is on the best bike on the gird, period. Will you admit it, can you even discern it (doubt it from your post)? I'm ok with you saying the rider made the difference in the outcome of this race, I agree, as it came down to the last few corners, and Lorenzo ended up making the mistake while Pedro negotiated Jorge's attempts at riding defensively into the better race line, that is, Pedro was flawless when it counted. But I'm not going to suddenly forget that the Honda out accelerated the Yamaha up the hill (see the helo shot). Yes, both bikes have their strong points, and the elevation change made Pedro's excellent battle possible for him to execute flawlessly. No acceleration advantage, and I doubt he would have been able to come along side JLo who was trying to cover the line. That RCV is plenty good. Lets not start downplaying it now. That is not saying that it rode itself, so get off your high horse dude. Dani is getting plenty of credit. The question of this thread was, has this changed my opinion of him, my answer, no, not really. Maybe with the only caveat as I said in my original race thread post, this should be counted "as his best performance" ever. And my take on him being perennially on the best kit is fact, undisputable. Nonetheless, as I said before, I was "impressed" with Pedro's performance at Brno. He won "fair and square". I still don't like him, so deal with it buddy.

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I think the hrc honda does have the overall advantage now, since the bike has been adapted/the rider has adapted to the new tyres, with drive out of the corner/up the hill a crucial advantage in this race as you say; even the clueless TV commentators recognised way before the end of the race that jorge would have trouble holding off dani in the last section of the track if it was close on the last lap. Credit to pedro though as woody has said, on previous form it would have been difficult to predict him holding on/fighting back to prevail as he did both at brno and sachsenring. I also agree with BBSB that lorenzo had a fast bike as well, which still looked to have some handling advantage, but couldn't ever break away from dani.

BSbb, ur English is plenty good, better than mine. Ok, fair enuf, i wont argue with ur take. (Except, yes, Dani has been on the best kit HRC have to offer, and all designed around him to boot).



Mike, good to see u posting, agree, bith have great bikes. In this case, i'll quite Bbss, the rider made the diff. I'll acept that.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

I wasnt referring to Nicky. I was referring to Stoner

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That was fairly obvious dude. U said first year teammate in reference to the bike, Nicky had already been on a factory RCV, while Casey was a first year teammate on Pedro's bike. But for those who missed it, i say what u said again: Pedro's first year teammate (a guy named Casey Stoner) whipped Pedros ... on the same factory bike. May i remind everybody, a bike designed and developed for Pedro. (Oh wait, wait wait, i think i saw some stickers rearranged on their bikes, ok, slightly and nearly the SAME factory bike, of their 'choosing', BSbb).



And i have no doubt Stoner would have beat Pedro again this year had he not got hurt (granted Pedro has got hurt himself, but even when u compare their records straight up minus injured rounds). Understandably, the new updates suited Pedro considering Stoner is retiring.



Again, Pedro done good in Brno. Pat him on the behind! But lets not start sucking his .... just yet. Dude has had it ALL his way, in a situation that cannot be overstated: on one of only two competitive factories, an army of which have been developing on his behave, with all the might of a limitless bank account, influence in the series to boot, and a "mentior/manager" who has an official earlobe to Carmelo Clause. Continue to ignore the lessons of 2011-12, the supposed goat, clearly better than Pedro is midpack 7-10, why isnt the reverse true?!? Pedro is the beneficiary of a +4 position potential every ....... event. Yet, hes got .... titles to show for it. Fact. U guys love to call on scoreboard as the be all without scrutiny, EXCEPT when it comes to Rossi (benefit of doubt on a .... Duc) and in reverse for Pedro (the benefit of doubt on the best bike).

Arrabbiata1 said:

I shall immediately take refuge from the fallout in darkest Papua New Guinea.

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You can rent my place, cheap.

Goatboy said:

If you want to make them jump through hoops directly request a response from a human being not a standard reply. Also outline what you don't want to hear such as "minority sport", request a detailed response on how they are going to fix the problems

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You could also remind them that their 'minority sport' is second only to F1 in motorsport viewers, worldwide.