Has your view on Dani changed after his Brno win?

My opinion of Dani has changed as this is the second time he looked like he had a win or bin head on and its .... he got taken out this week as i believe he had the measure of Jorge,but all is not lost if he keeps this up for the rest of the season he may force Jorge into a mistake and get some points back,if this week hasnt done his head in it might be one of the best end of seasons we have had for years,fingers crossed.

Ngads said:

The way i see it is now the championship is where its supposed to be points-wise. Jorge got taken out as well, so now its fair game.



125 points up for grabs...still a long way to go

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I agree. Lorenzo still being ahead by so much is testament to his performances over the year to date.

cliché guevara said:

+1

as much as it sucks for dani, we must not forget that jorge lost out on a possible 25 points, (16 for sure IMO) at assen because he was taken out.

or was that his fault jum?

with honda having chatter and tyre problems and stoner first announcing his departure,then getting hurt by riding too wild on a .... track this is going to be lorenzos year.

think about it. he finished every race so far in first or second place. i have no doubt he would have done the same at assen , or at very least scored a solid 3rd place podium.



i tend to root for the guy in second place in the championship (as i always did ,except for 2001-2002) ,so i'd love to see dani win some races.

but its near impossible to beat a rider whose worst result is second place.

i don't know how much of a team player casey can and will be.

at least i can't imagine him letting dani pass at his last home round.

we talk a lot about spies bad luck and how lucky pedrosa is to have always had a rossi like string of equipment.

but actually i feel kinda bad for him, his title ambitions have been sabotaged by injury every year up until now, and since last year dani really stepped up his game.

he really deserves a chance to fight for the championship in valencia.

i hope he will get the chance

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The bad thing for Pedrosa is that even though there are still 5 races left, there's no one else that can potentially beat Lorenzo in these 5 races except for Stoner. An even then he won't be 100% when he returns so he probably won't be much help at all for Dani, certainly in half of the remaining races. And then as you and others noted, there's the problem of this being his last season and I can't see him accepting to come second.



The only positive for Pedrosa is that he seems to be getting stronger with the latest spec chassis so if he could find an edge over Stoner and Lorenzo at every circuit, then maybe he still has a chance - as small as that can be.



Maybe if Honda gave Bradl the latest HRC spec maybe he could beat JL at a couple of tracks as well... I think that could be a good move for Honda if they really want Dani to have any chance.



"we talk a lot about spies bad luck and how lucky pedrosa is to have always had a rossi like string of equipment.

but actually i feel kinda bad for him, his title ambitions have been sabotaged by injury every year up until now"



I don't know if you are one of them or not but, I never understood what made some fans to believe he always had the best equipment in his entire GP career. That is not the truth. When asked why they think so, they just say "because he rides for HRC and they are the biggest and wealthier team".

Does the journos and experts think like those fans too? I would like to know what Kropo thinks about that, since he's considered one of the most knowledgeable of this sport.



It seems because HRC has the most recources, those fans automatically assume they can't fail to produce the best bike, ignoring the evidence on the track and also the fact that the tires were a big factor as well (tire war), so they lay all the blame on Pedrosa.

Since the change from 990 to 800 Honda was lost with the development direction of the bike. I don't care if the RC212V was built arround Pedro if the bike is not up to the task (hell, tell me what team doesn't buid their bike arround their best hope for the WC, Stoner-Ducati excluded).



It took Honda until 2010 to give him a consistent competitive package. The previous (800cc) years chassis were flawed, the worst of them being in the first year of the 800 era where he beat Rossi in the WC btw (who like Pedrosa was on michelins) - who was considered "the GOAT" and arguably had the beter ride that year.

Still about 2007, like others the Honda was vastly underpowered compared to the Ducati, so again where does this "best equipment" stuff come from?



It's hard for us - the fans - to determine how much was the bike and the michelins but this package was never competitive (not counting the 990) to allow Pedrosa to genuinely fight for a championship. It was only good for a few times a year on a specific set of circumstances/conditions where everything "clicked". But the package was very inconsistent. Of course his injuries contributed to that but when he was not injured it was easy too see the bike was inconsistent and how he was struggling.

Also I disagree with those few who say 2008 would be his year if not the injury. The only reason he was leading the WC at Sachsenring was because Stoner and Ducati had a temporary slump early in the season due to wrong setup direction and because Rossi (who did everything in his power to dump the michelins as soon as possible) and his crew took a few races to optimize the bike's settings to the bridgestones and adjust his riding accordingly.



And of course 2009 was a such a hopless year for Pedrosa and HRC. He probably was thinking he would have a much better ride than in 2007/'08 now with BS's but the decision to bring a bike not so different from the '08 one proved to be a big mistake as no matter how many different directions they tried with the setup, the bike was so inconsistent and out of sync with the bridgestones, it was eating the tires up in the races so fast that he usually go backwards after mid race.



So for 2010 HRC developed a completely different bike arround the BS tires. It still took them a lot of time and effort to make the chassis better at home with the tires and meanwhile Jorge built a massive lead in the WC.

After his rookie season this was the first time he was actually given proper competitive machinery. After mid season the bike seemed to get better and he finally could show what he could do with competitive equipment, and he started winning consistently until the throttle of his bike stuck open on a straight at Motegi forcing him to land at 300Kph and breaking his collarbone.



So, to my eyes 2010 was the first time in Pedrosa's Motogp carrer that he had a genuine shot of a WC and the first time after his debut season that he had top level equipment (but not for the entire campaign).

Not 2008, but 2010 yes I believe that could be his year if not for the Motegi accident which was not his fault. Yes I'm convinced he would've closed the gap to JL until Valencia because in a short period of time before Motegi he ate big chunks out of JL's lead and the gap was not that big anymore and he had several riders finnish between them unlike in 2012.



His other seasons where he was given top level equipment was of course 2011 (where sic ensured he pass his 6th year without that elusive first title) and this year.

good post bbsb,i agree with most what you say



my thoughts :1. as much as i'm a fan of bradl (i rate him very highly), i don't think he will be able to fight with jorge ,even on equal machinary.at least not this year. if anybody can beat lorenzo to help dani its casey. i'm 100% sure stoner will go for the win at PI , but at the other rounds who knows?



2. about his equipment : i think the 125 and 250 honda were right up there with the aprilia in those years. better than the apes? wouldn't say that. but equal best machinery is still good enough right?



2006 , rookie season in which he did very well



2007 , bike not as bad as others say,especially for pedrosa . surely not a masterpiece but i dare saying that if stoner had been on a honda(or yamaha for that matter) he'd still have won it.even if pedro and rossi had been on the duc

certainly the honda was as fast as the duc in the latter stages of the season.top speed is little more but an advantage in wheel to wheel battle on the start-finish straight anyways IMO . what made the honda look so bad was that the satellite machinery was obviously inferior and that hayden just had a bike that was nothing like what he needed.

all things considered still a very good season by him, as you said he beat rossi.and i never thought the yamaha was a bad bike that year so kudos to him.as a sidenote i think 2007 was the only year where the duc/yamaha/honda were probably close to equal.



2008-2010 : bike at the very least as good as the ducati,most likely much better. injuries sabotage his title efforts. yamaha is the bike to beat,but i wouldn't say the honda was far behind. i don't want to sound repetitive but i think a healty stoner(and for that matter a healthy pedrosa since stoner was stuck on the duc) could have won the title on it



2011: first time in the 800cc(except 2007) era that i wouldn't say the yamaha is definately the best bike out there, honda and yamaha more or less equal in my eyes. hondas good results come from having 4 very good riders pushing each other. pedrosa out of title fight because of injury.

my honest guess : if there hadn't been a stoner and simoncelli pushing dani to ride at a higher level he would have done no better than in the past years.

same goes btw for every other rider, lorenzo being so good because he had to fight rossi etc.i think its normal that having a good benchmark allows you to step up your game where as if your teammates are hayden and dovi you can't really improve that much if you're dani and have the bike built to suit you anyways.

point of my lenghty ,multiple bowl induced rambling : danis bikes have been good enough all the time, IMO its just that he stayed healthy this year and more importantly became a much better rider by having some real competition in the honda camp

cliché guevara said:

good post bbsb,i agree with most what you say



my thoughts :1. as much as i'm a fan of bradl (i rate him very highly), i don't think he will be able to fight with jorge ,even on equal machinary.at least not this year. if anybody can beat lorenzo to help dani its casey. i'm 100% sure stoner will go for the win at PI , but at the other rounds who knows?



2. about his equipment : i think the 125 and 250 honda were right up there with the aprilia in those years. better than the apes? wouldn't say that. but equal best machinery is still good enough right?



2006 , rookie season in which he did very well



2007 , bike not as bad as others say,especially for pedrosa . surely not a masterpiece but i dare saying that if stoner had been on a honda(or yamaha for that matter) he'd still have won it.even if pedro and rossi had been on the duc

certainly the honda was as fast as the duc in the latter stages of the season.top speed is little more but an advantage in wheel to wheel battle on the start-finish straight anyways IMO . what made the honda look so bad was that the satellite machinery was obviously inferior and that hayden just had a bike that was nothing like what he needed.

all things considered still a very good season by him, as you said he beat rossi.and i never thought the yamaha was a bad bike that year so kudos to him.as a sidenote i think 2007 was the only year where the duc/yamaha/honda were probably close to equal.



2008-2010 : bike at the very least as good as the ducati,most likely much better. injuries sabotage his title efforts. yamaha is the bike to beat,but i wouldn't say the honda was far behind. i don't want to sound repetitive but i think a healty stoner(and for that matter a healthy pedrosa since stoner was stuck on the duc) could have won the title on it



2011: first time in the 800cc(except 2007) era that i wouldn't say the yamaha is definately the best bike out there, honda and yamaha more or less equal in my eyes. hondas good results come from having 4 very good riders pushing each other. pedrosa out of title fight because of injury.

my honest guess : if there hadn't been a stoner and simoncelli pushing dani to ride at a higher level he would have done no better than in the past years.

same goes btw for every other rider, lorenzo being so good because he had to fight rossi etc.i think its normal that having a good benchmark allows you to step up your game where as if your teammates are hayden and dovi you can't really improve that much if you're dani and have the bike built to suit you anyways.

point of my lenghty ,multiple bowl induced rambling : danis bikes have been good enough all the time, IMO its just that he stayed healthy this year and more importantly became a much better rider by having some real competition in the honda camp

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Agreed sir

NO, he will never win a W/C on the HRC Repsol or on any motogp unit. He has been sort of unlucky but after seeing him crash at the last gp I'm convinced that he's brainless and rides with his emotions and not his skills!!

Scotty said:

NO, he will never win a W/C on the HRC Repsol or on any motogp unit. He has been sort of unlucky but after seeing him crash at the last gp I'm convinced that he's brainless and rides with his emotions and not his skills!!

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Sorry oh great one.

cliché guevara said:

good post bbsb,i agree with most what you say



my thoughts :1. as much as i'm a fan of bradl (i rate him very highly), i don't think he will be able to fight with jorge ,even on equal machinary.at least not this year. if anybody can beat lorenzo to help dani its casey. i'm 100% sure stoner will go for the win at PI , but at the other rounds who knows?



2. about his equipment : i think the 125 and 250 honda were right up there with the aprilia in those years. better than the apes? wouldn't say that. but equal best machinery is still good enough right?



2006 , rookie season in which he did very well



2007 , bike not as bad as others say,especially for pedrosa . surely not a masterpiece but i dare saying that if stoner had been on a honda(or yamaha for that matter) he'd still have won it.even if pedro and rossi had been on the duc

certainly the honda was as fast as the duc in the latter stages of the season.top speed is little more but an advantage in wheel to wheel battle on the start-finish straight anyways IMO . what made the honda look so bad was that the satellite machinery was obviously inferior and that hayden just had a bike that was nothing like what he needed.

all things considered still a very good season by him, as you said he beat rossi.and i never thought the yamaha was a bad bike that year so kudos to him.as a sidenote i think 2007 was the only year where the duc/yamaha/honda were probably close to equal.



2008-2010 : bike at the very least as good as the ducati,most likely much better. injuries sabotage his title efforts. yamaha is the bike to beat,but i wouldn't say the honda was far behind. i don't want to sound repetitive but i think a healty stoner(and for that matter a healthy pedrosa since stoner was stuck on the duc) could have won the title on it



2011: first time in the 800cc(except 2007) era that i wouldn't say the yamaha is definately the best bike out there, honda and yamaha more or less equal in my eyes. hondas good results come from having 4 very good riders pushing each other. pedrosa out of title fight because of injury.

my honest guess : if there hadn't been a stoner and simoncelli pushing dani to ride at a higher level he would have done no better than in the past years.

same goes btw for every other rider, lorenzo being so good because he had to fight rossi etc.i think its normal that having a good benchmark allows you to step up your game where as if your teammates are hayden and dovi you can't really improve that much if you're dani and have the bike built to suit you anyways.

point of my lenghty ,multiple bowl induced rambling : danis bikes have been good enough all the time, IMO its just that he stayed healthy this year and more importantly became a much better rider by having some real competition in the honda camp

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I was referring about his Motogp career only, didn't touch on his 125/250 days as I didn't follow GP before Casey was winning on a Ducati.



The 2007 Ducati may have actually be no better than the Yamaha and Honda but as usual you guys forget the tire factor. As a Stoner fan I'm no blind to the fact that the bridgestones were clearly superior to the michelins. Anyone who had them enjoyed a clear advantage, at least in the dry. So while Stoner had the bridgestones, Pedrosa and Rossi were stuck with the michelins. Look at the evidence, Pedro was regularly beaten in the races by 10+ seconds. Do you honestly believe he was that bad?

Now Stoner is better than Pedro (IMO) but I don't believe even he would have a chance to win the title in 2007 on that Honda/michelin package if Pedrosa and Rossi had the Ducati/BS.



The 2010 Honda as I said it was up there with the best after the improvements during the season but again the 2008 version still with the michelins while it was an improvement from the '07 it wasn't on the same level to the BS's Yamaha/Ducati. Yes the Yam was the class of the field as in the following year. Could Stoner have won the WC on the '08 Honda/MI? I can't see how, not with Rossi on BS on his M1.



2009 again I can't see how you can claim it was better than the Duc. Look at his average distance to the winner (obviously ignore the races where he was injured). Honda was not able to match that chassis with the BS's. Do you not read the interviews? Well at least we agree Yamaha had the best bike 2008/'09.



In 2011 I actually believe that overall the Yam was not quite as good as the Honda.



Dani's only competition in the honda camp was Casey. Simoncelli? are you kidding me? what season were you watching? Apart from two or so races (where Pedro struggled) he was never on the same level.



Saying if there hadn't been Stoner pushing Pedrosa he would have done no better than in previows years, is a bit over the top. I agree having Stoner as teammate must have made him a better rider but then he was already riding at a similar level in 2010 before the Motegi accident when he had no competition within Honda. It's simply that the bike was FINALLY fixed and that allowed him to ride at his full potential.



I understand that some fans had this preconceived belief that the Honda was always the best or equal best bike and that it was Pedrosa who was solely to blame for his lack of results (titles and/or a much better win ratio), so when they finally see him fighting consistently at the top when Stoner happens to be his teammate, to them that can only be due to Stoner's effect and nothing else. Sorry but one can't come from regularly been beaten by 10+sec in races, to winning regularly and always on the podium, just by having a top rider riding your sister bike. Look a bit deeper. It's the bike that was the dominant factor. 2010 should've helped you see that.

Spoiler





Phillip Island should consider re-naming a turn: Choker Corner. Perhaps Pedrophile Bender.

and they should have a stand that sells Choke-O-Latte's in said corner...