Estoril RACE Thread

[Geonerd]

If indeed Rossi really said, <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"I want to spend my last active years in peace. I want to spend it with family, without pressure, nerves and stress that is provoked every Thursday I arrive at the circuit, and spend the whole day tense because a boy who is 10 years younger and hungry for titles is hounding me on and off the track. I'm too old for this sort of thing." he is toast. To compete at this level requires a maniacal, clinically insane level of devotion and drive. If you don' have it; if you are no longer willing to endure the 'tense'

race week, you will not last long. His language is similar to what I remember Schwantz, Lawson, and all those before, using shortly before calling it a day. Someone buy the lad a puppy! If the quote is accurate, I think he's got one more good year in him, if that. Once a rider starts talking this way in public, the end doesn't take very long to arrive. (I'm entirely serious, and am not just trying to wind the Bopper Patrol.)

FWIW, I don't think Jorge started off intentionally copying Rossi's ego-validating post race antics. Rossi made this sort of thing acceptable long ago, and Lorenzo's personality (ego) did the rest. Having said that, I suspect that Lorenzo is 100% aware of WHY Rossi is so popular, and is more than willing to position himself as the Next Great Thing. Don't expect him to stop moonwalking, etc. any time soon.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Oct 7 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If indeed Rossi really said, he is toast.

Don't expect him to stop moonwalking, etc. any time soon.
Geo, why do you hate Rossi so much?

I wouldn't read too much into it, yet. I just think he's a bit dejected from getting beat this weekend. If he wins next week, expect him to be back to his happy-go-lucky self.

BTW, I watched the race on Speed, so I didn't get to see these "antics" that Talpa is so angry about. Can you please describe, or post a link from Youtube or something.

Great Avi btw. I wonder who he is blowing a kiss goodbye too?

 

[JohnnyKnockdown]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Oct 7 2009, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Lorenzo is the source of all this unhappiness and moaning that Rossi is displaying. Rossi's little mind games ain't working this time around leaving Rossi puzzled and pointing fingers. This guy is probably the biggest complainer in the paddock, as I've said before don't let his happy go lucky image fool you.... it's all an act, and Lorenzo is slowly breaking him down and revealing the real Rossi.

Wow SS for once you said something that is the truth or very close to it. The Rossi that the public
sees is not the real Rossi. He's a great manipulator of the press and the fans. We do have a happy
go lucky image of him but outside of the press table he is a much different person.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 7 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jum,

I know you're right on most counts. But I think Rossi should still be pissed. JL is beating him on his own bike and doesn't have to develop ..... As far as Colin being a test mule, I doubt it. Maybe for tires, not for hardware. I'll agree, Yamaha owns all the parts and should do as they wish.

Id really like to see Rossi go to Ducati rather than retire to F1.


Jum has pretty much covered this off but Clark, I asked yonks ago about this somewhere and never did get a reply so will ask again by using your post to precipitate it.

If Edwards only developed tyres, why has he such a reputation as an all round development rider, A reputation that many use to 'justify' his remaining in MotoGP?

Further to this, if he was only a tyre development rider why was he not blamed for his parts in developing alleged inferior equipment throughout 2007/2008?

Llike Jumkie I recall articles crediting CE for the 'donkey' work he had done in testing and/or assisting development of parts, hardware and software for the Yamaha factory and the role he had played for VR/JB, but will wair for Jum to fimd the links as I am far to lazy to search.

Gaz

 

[Geonerd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 7 2009, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Geo, why do you hate Rossi so much?

I wouldn't read too much into it, yet. I just think he's a bit dejected from getting beat this weekend. If he wins next week, expect him to be back to his happy-go-lucky self.

A year or two ago, you'd NEVER have heard such talk. Instead, you'd hear some grumbling, accompanied by a vow to destroy the enemy at the next race. I think the first sign of this attitude occurred back when Rossi demanded the Great Wall be installed. Over the last year, he's felt increasingly 1) threatened by J-Lo, and 2) 'disrespected' by Yamaha (who are simply looking after their own long term interests.) If he and JB really did visit Ducati for a serious chat, that says volumes about Lorenzo's impact on the dynamics within the team.

It's easy to wear the Happy Mask when you're winning everything in sight. At some point however, Rossi will start to get beat on a regular basis. Then we'll see the real person as he struggles to accept the inevitable. We'll hear more talk along the lines of "This .... is getting old." The Boppers may be shocked, but I think the rest of us will realize that no one can be expected to be 'happy' all the time. Valentino has always seemed to 'get' the big picture, showing great respect to prior champions, etc. I hope this awareness extends to himself and his career, and that he accepts his eventual decline gracefully.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>BTW, I watched the race on Speed, so I didn't get to see these "antics" that Talpa is so angry about. Can you please describe, or post a link from Youtube or something.

Dunnow. His Moon Flag ceremony seemed fairly tame compared to some of JL or VR's prior extravaganzas.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Great Avi btw. I wonder who he is blowing a kiss goodbye too?

You, big guy!

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 7 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Geo, why do you hate Rossi so much?

I wouldn't read too much into it, yet. I just think he's a bit dejected from getting beat this weekend. If he wins next week, expect him to be back to his happy-go-lucky self.

BTW, I watched the race on Speed, so I didn't get to see these "antics" that Talpa is so angry about. Can you please describe, or post a link from Youtube or something.
Great Avi btw. I wonder who he is blowing a kiss goodbye too?
He walked slow like he was on the moon and the planted his flag in the gravel trap.

 

[Mick D]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 8 2009, 04:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This [Rossi/Burgess to Ducati] would be the ultimate! If anybody could do it, it would be him and Burgess. Sadly though, I think Rossi, like Lorenzo are only using Ducati as a bargaining chip. But yes, it would be something special if the man ended his career on a Ducati. If he managed to win a title on it, I'm affraid Italy would literally sink into the Mediterranean, nothing could follow that.
It would be something special... maybe combine this with this with the Spanish press quote and get my spin: Rossi does know his age/limitations/status/teammate and is looking for a final motivation/challenge to attempt to cap his already stellar career... n'est pas?

 

[Geonerd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Oct 7 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow SS for once you said something that is the truth or very close to it. The Rossi that the public sees is not the real Rossi. He's a great manipulator of the press and the fans. We do have a happy go lucky image of him but outside of the press table he is a much different person.

Agree with both of you - to a degree.

I don't see Rossi as 'deceiving' anyone; he IS the rare extrovert among a crowd of introverted, largely miserable, highly driven riders. Think back as long as you like - who was the last 'happy' champion? None of his contemporaries or immediate predecessors qualify. Schwantz and Nicky are the only people that come remotely close. Lawson, Rainey, Roberts, Doohan, Gardner, Stoner, all fit the stereotype: quiet, tightly wound, wanting only to "Kill them all!" whenever they get within 100 miles of a racetrack.

On the other hand, Rossi does deliberately 'Play It Up' whenever possible. Why not? It's made him millions. At some point he discovered that playing to the crowd and camera got him more fans and prestige.... and, eventually, money! Since then, he's made an obvious effort to wear the Happy Mask whenever possible.

 

[xx CURVE xx]

blah blah blah blah blah....

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 7 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>blah blah blah blah blah....

Hey that's exactly what Rog said. Except he was more dramatic.

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Oct 8 2009, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't see Rossi as 'deceiving' anyone; he IS the rare extrovert among a crowd of quiet, tightly wound, highly driven riders. Think back as long as you like - who was the last 'happy' champion? None of his contemporaries or immediate predecessors qualify. Schwantz and Nicky are the only people that come remotely close. Lawson, Rainey, Roberts, Doohan, Gardner, Stoner, all fit the stereotype: quiet, tightly wound, wanting only to "Kill them all!" whenever they get within 100 miles of a racetrack.

On the other hand, Rossi does deliberately 'Play It Up' whenever possible. Why not? It's made him millions. At some point he discovered that playing to the crowd and camera got him more fans and prestige.... and, eventually, money! Since then, he's made an obvious effort to wear the Happy Mask whenever possible.
Agree entirely. Rossi had a rare off week-end (by his standards) and is now hamming it up/playing to the crowd as is his wont, and with which I have no problem. I am sure dorna will have even less problem than I do, the TV ratings for PI are going to be stellar. I haven't read it, but the latest headline on crash has rossi describing lorenzo and stoner as " a pair of circling sharks"

.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Oct 7 2009, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i did have a picture but ben has turned off the uploads so this will have to do.

<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA

I second that, specially from an article coming from a Spanish magazine talking about a Spanish rider, whom by the way, used to praise Pedrosa always. I wonder what happened because now Lorenzo their main target!

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 7 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This all seems a bit hard to believe, if VR is copying JL's settings then why is he 23 seconds off the pace? Quite arrogant from JL but good PR for the championship! It is easy to sprout after a good win like Estoril, but he seems to be counting his chickens way too early, PI and Malaysia are two of VR's favorites.

Speaking of copying, JL should have mentioned his post race antics, wonder where he got that from? I'm of the belief that JL has certainly copied and gained greatly from Burgess and Rossi's work on the M1, past and present.

The article does need to be translated (any help appreciated - tried Babelfish but was more confused) but if I understand the basics and from what was posted where it was found, JB admits to copying some of JL's settings at Saschenring, so why not other places.

Will need the full translation to possibly answer.

http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/motocicli...dasdaimot_1/Tes




Garry

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 8 2009, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The article does need to be translated (any help appreciated - tried Babelfish but was more confused) but if I understand the basics and from what was posted where it was found, JB admits to copying some of JL's settings at Saschenring, so why not other places.

Will need the full translation to possibly answer.

http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/motocicli...dasdaimot_1/Tes




Garry

Possible sure.....but I would need to see a video with Burgess saying it in order to believe, what we do know for sure is that JL certainly would have started 09 with a very good base for the BS's, maybe now there is tooing and froweing, but for me its like saying that Mick used to copy Alex or Taddys data, and they both beat him on the odd occasion as well, a little bit too much like hype.

JL is fast, but it is silly to say that he hasn't been gifted a fantastic base machine each weekend thanks to the 8 time and 12 time title winners next door, it is easy to get caught up in the next new thing and Motogp really needs something as its spectacle has dwindled into a precession, with races looking just like FP and QP.....

 

[michaelm]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 8 2009, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>JL is fast, but it is silly to say that he hasn't been gifted a fantastic base machine each weekend thanks to the 8 time and 12 time title winners next door, it is easy to get caught up in the next new thing and Motogp really needs something as its spectacle has dwindled into a precession, with races looking just like FP and QP.....
I agree. Posters more knowledgeable than me have argued from the start of the 800 formula that it is a " one-line" formula, particularly with the fuel restrictions, unlike the multiple different lines which could be taken on a 990, and valentino himself has said that with the electronics and the current tyre technology the relative pace of the protagonists is apparent early and does not change over the course of proceedings as it did when the riders actually raced each other in days of yore

.

 

[Keshav]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Oct 7 2009, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He walked slow like he was on the moon and the planted his flag in the gravel trap.

And it was weak. Besides, 75% of his fanbase are too young to get the
reference. It's lame of Lorenzo to try and be a carbon copy of Rossi. You never
saw this kind of schoolboy antics coming from any of the other past champions.
It's the kind of schaltzy schtick I'd expect from the host of TV program for small children.
Maybe on Rossi's next win he'll dress up as a Teletubby.

 

[VHMP01]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 8 2009, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

And it was weak. Besides, 75% of his fanbase are too young to get the
reference. It's lame of Lorenzo to try and be a carbon copy of Rossi. You never
saw this kind of schoolboy antics coming from any of the other past champions.
It's the kind of schaltzy schtick I'd expect from the host of TV program for small children.
Maybe on Rossi's next win he'll dress up as a Teletubby.

Or ware 'fishing' gear! (Just joking)…

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 8 2009, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

And it was weak. Besides, 75% of his fanbase are too young to get the
reference. It's lame of Lorenzo to try and be a carbon copy of Rossi. You never
saw this kind of schoolboy antics coming from any of the other past champions.
It's the kind of schaltzy schtick I'd expect from the host of TV program for small children.
Maybe on Rossi's next win he'll dress up as a Teletubby.

Yeah it was way week. "One small step for a men" on the back of his helmet, wtf?? He should at least take the time to get it right. I don't mind antics, but I am getting tired of his Halloween style dress up every weekend.

 

[SuperShinya56]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Oct 7 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Rossi really say what's quoted here?

(I know the source is a Spanish racing rag.)

From http://www.motocuatro.com/noticia.php?idNoticia=480
Furusawa was at Estoril to calm Rossi down. Furusawa's plan was to attend Sepang and Valencia, but felt a need to see Rossi earlier, also in response to rumors that Rossi and Burgess had visited Ducati's factory in order to sound out a move there. Rossi and Uccio were in such a hurry to leave Estoril Sunday night that Uccio nearly scraped the motorhome on the fences on the way out. Rossi: "I want to spend my last active years in peace. I want to spend it with family, without pressure, nerves and stress that is provoked every Thursday I arrive at the circuit, and spend the whole day tense because a boy who is 10 years younger and hungry for titles is hounding me on and off the track. I'm too old for this sort of thing."

And you thought Casey was moaning!

It seems Valentino's Great Wall is no longer enough sufficient to keep him happy. Does anyone else think we won't see him sharing a garage with Lorenzo next year?


Notice how all those Rossi fanboys try to keep it hush hush hoping that this Rossi moaning incident will somehow disappear along with the thread? If this was Stoner complaining you know this thread would probably already be at 20+ pages long.... so I'm going to try and keep this topic alive and up for discussion.

 

[mjpartyboy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 7 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In an interview with Italian magazine 'Riders' Lorenzo states: “My truth is that Valentino has developed the Yamaha from 2004, but if we’re talking about setting up the bike during race weekends, it’s absolutely not true that I copy his settings.”

“I have my crewchief, he sets my bike up. To tell the truth in some races, it’s Valentino’s team that copies my settings. It’s normal. I can see Valentino’s telemetry data and he can see mine; we can look at his settings and he looks at ours.”

With just three races remaining on the 2009 calendar and just 18 separating Lorenzo and arch rival Rossi, it's easy to see why the Spaniard is keen to stand his ground:

“I’d like to say that from one race to another, I change very few things, and I’m almost sure that in some races, Valentino’s team has changed his set-up to follow our indications. Each weekend I’m fast from Friday. If I copy his, I’d be fast only on Saturday or Sunday.”
Is this Burgess' reply:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>“Certainly, my objective from an engineering perspective is to make a bike that all riders can ride. It’s a very well tuned bike which has been developed by Valentino Rossi, and any rider coming in to ride this bike doesn’t have to worry about development. They have the ability and the information that we have put together over many years, combined with the settings we have from the last two especially – and particularly with the Bridgestone tyres – so it’s not as easy to develop the bike as it is to ride the bike. We have a rider in Valentino who develops the bike and we have on the other side of the garage one guy who just has to ride.”
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2009/Burgess...si+relationship