Estoril RACE Thread

[Goatboy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Oct 8 2009, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's easy to wear the Happy Mask when you're winning everything in sight. At some point however, Rossi will start to get beat on a regular basis. Then we'll see the real person as he struggles to accept the inevitable.That's the thing though, we have seen that already & he has come back with the answers. I know in his position after Valencia 06 I would never have ridden again, I would not have had the will to carry on. Similar (perhaps) in 2007, it would have been the easy road to think "Oh well, I've had a good run, I'll go home now" but he tried again & provided results. The real question is how strong is his will power & as usual we will find out in the next races. Not in an internet interview.

Ohh & I thought Casey & Dovi were the highlights of Estoril.

 

[Talpa]

It seems with some of these quotes being circulated that we have no proof of the origin or legitimacy of the source. So all in all most of our debate on these matters is based on potential hype or even rubbish from members themselves, I for one will only believe and reference credible articles from reliable sources or Video of the rider/team member saying it themselves......chasing points on the rest is like pissing in the roaring forties!

 

[M1fan]

From MCN

JB : "We put too much weight on the front and traded too much off the rear. We had a good turning bike but we just could'nt use the throttle. If we'd have come back a little bit with the front and not sacrificed so much of the rear, we'd have been fine- but we got to the point with the position of the bike where it really hurt us. On the 800s now, they don't have the torque to throw the weight back onto the rear tyre. These engines don't give that style of bike. You've got to have grip front and rear all the time- and its very delicate and sensitive to set up. We got it wrong and it will sharpen us all up for the next time"

VR : "It was quite frustrating because I never had good grip from the rear. I risked too much and right from the start the rear tyre was sliding alot. It was a difficult race, especially because I didn't get on the podium and the distance was too high. We tried to fix a turning problem and set the bike in the wrong direction for rear grip and suffered a lot. I don't have grip on the edge so when I am on maximum lean and I open the throttle the rear slide very much. I lost a lot in acceleration. The rear setting was the wrong position but we didn't think it was going to be a big problem as it turned out. But from the first lap it was a big disaster"

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 8 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It seems with some of these quotes being circulated that we have no proof of the origin or legitimacy of the source. So all in all most of our debate on these matters is based on potential hype or even rubbish from members themselves, I for one will only believe and reference credible articles from reliable sources or Video of the rider/team member saying it themselves......chasing points on the rest is like pissing in the roaring forties!

All of a sudden the reports are false.

Well you've never had any problem "believing" the ones that you like. I guess just the ones that force you to read about reality are the "suspect" one.

 

[Jumkie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Oct 8 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From MCN

JB : "We put too much weight on the front and traded too much off the rear. We had a good turning bike but we just could'nt use the throttle. If we'd have come back a little bit with the front and not sacrificed so much of the rear, we'd have been fine- but we got to the point with the position of the bike where it really hurt us. On the 800s now, they don't have the torque to throw the weight back onto the rear tyre. These engines don't give that style of bike. You've got to have grip front and rear all the time- and its very delicate and sensitive to set up. We got it wrong and it will sharpen us all up for the next time"

VR : "It was quite frustrating because I never had good grip from the rear. I risked too much and right from the start the rear tyre was sliding alot. It was a difficult race, especially because I didn't get on the podium and the distance was too high. We tried to fix a turning problem and set the bike in the wrong direction for rear grip and suffered a lot. I don't have grip on the edge so when I am on maximum lean and I open the throttle the rear slide very much. I lost a lot in acceleration. The rear setting was the wrong position but we didn't think it was going to be a big problem as it turned out. But from the first lap it was a big disaster"

So they got the set up wrong. No shame in that. No need for anybody to throw Burgess under the bus like others have done. No need for Talpa & co. to consider suicide or questioning the authenticity of reports.

Oh, and out of Burgess' quote I gather he's also saying the 800 formula sucks.

 

[Gaz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 8 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It seems with some of these quotes being circulated that we have no proof of the origin or legitimacy of the source. So all in all most of our debate on these matters is based on potential hype or even rubbish from members themselves, I for one will only believe and reference credible articles from reliable sources or Video of the rider/team member saying it themselves......chasing points on the rest is like pissing in the roaring forties!

But who determines which is credible and which is not?

Up until now, this very weekend some of these same sources have reported positive aspects and negative aspects of other riders or support staff that we or some have taken as gospel truth, yet now the credibility is questioned.

Personally, do I believe that VR could or would be getting quite narky in his current situation - well the answer is simply an absolute yes.

Do I blame him - No.

Nor do I think the VR empire is crumbling as this race at the recent results are a blip and the result of an extremely talented rider on an extremely good machine who has found a pefect equilibrium at the moment - and yes that is JL.




Gaz

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(Geonerd @ Oct 8 2009, 12:48 AM)
It's easy to wear the Happy Mask when you're winning everything in sight. At some point however, Rossi will start to get beat on a regular basis. Then we'll see the real person as he struggles to accept the inevitable.

he lost 2 seasons on the trot ....... and came back strong and focused. how long have you followed the sport ???

 

[M1fan]

Hey Goatboy do you own a 330? Is it a 12 or 6 string? I've always wanted a 12 370 like Roger McGuinn's. Only ever had the pleasure of playing a Rickenbacker once and that was a 6 350, it was sweeter than sweet

 

[Geonerd]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Oct 8 2009, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he lost 2 seasons on the trot ....... and came back strong and focused. how long have you followed the sport ???

Truth hurts, Big Guy?

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%La-la-la-la!!!


Semi-seriously, I can't remember Valentino saying anything remotely as defeatist as the quotes in that article.
I DO think Rossi is feeling some real pressure; it will be interesting to see how he responds at Philip Island.

 

[gsfan]

Rossi wants the championship but this year there are so many spoilers. Imagine having to try to win? Wow what a bummer. The kicker is that it is his team mate that is his major rival nullifying the technical advantage he has enjoyed for his entire career in MotoGP. That must really piss him off. The moon man thing was excellent.

 

[Mick D]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 9 2009, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi wants the championship but this year there are so many spoilers. Imagine having to try to win? Wow what a bummer. The kicker is that it is his team mate that is his major rival nullifying the technical advantage he has enjoyed for his entire career in MotoGP. That must really piss him off. The moon man thing was excellent.
So Rossi had a tech advantage in '04 and '07?

 

[chopperman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi wants the championship but this year there are so many spoilers. Imagine having to try to win? Wow what a bummer. The kicker is that it is his team mate that is his major rival nullifying the technical advantage he has enjoyed for his entire career in MotoGP. That must really piss him off. The moon man thing was excellent.
another ....... shows his ugly face ,, 05 ???

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 9 2009, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

All of a sudden the reports are false.

Well you've never had any problem "believing" the ones that you like. I guess just the ones that force you to read about reality are the "suspect" one.

Come off it.......VR haters really need no excuse, only the simplest of reasons brings the rock spiders out......but a Dutch journalist heard this, a Portuguese journo heard that. Hard to take as fact unless you are a Tabloid Hype monkey or just dieing for a reason to soapbox and bring down the GOAT. Why didn't he say it at a press conference or in post-race interviews as CS does, or maybe a Nicky style dummy spit in the sand pit, then at least you would have footage to back it up

I have always questioned reports, especially the ones you base your bias hatred tainted conspiracy theories on.

The silly part about the half wit vultures circling after one poor performance is that you all are leaving yourselves open to be hammered if the pendulum swings back (as it always has) the other way next week.....

 

[Geonerd]

Dude, step down from your soap-box.

Nobody HATES poor little Valentino. We simply choose not to blindly worship him the way some of you 'Boppers' appear to.

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Oct 10 2009, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dude, step down from your soap-box.

Nobody HATES poor little Valentino. We simply choose not to blindly worship him the way some of you 'Boppers' appear to.

Not blind worship mate, just deriving insight from FACTS and not fiction.........

 

[gsfan]

Rossi on the whole has had a technical advantage. That is history not Rossi hating. Don't get your knickers in a knot so easily. He hasn't had to languish his career in the B teams has he? The Rossibots love to cite his early Yamaha years but boys that bike was damn good and Yamaha have moola to burn and they are way ahead because of it. Turn your minds back to the V5 and think about that for a while. His bike now is clearly the best machine on the grid and that is also fact.

Face facts he's had damn good equipment and better than most. Oh his bike sucked for a couple of races in a couple of years big deal most guys have big problems every race. His are whether he finishes 1st or 2nd.

I'm not getting on the "prove I'm not a Rossi hater" treadmill. That is just ridiculous. .... me you guys are getting to be monotonous. I call it as I see it.

 

[J4rn0]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 10 2009, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi on the whole has had a technical advantage. That is history not Rossi hating. Don't get your knickers in a knot so easily. He hasn't had to languish his career in the B teams has he? The Rossibots love to cite his early Yamaha years but boys that bike was damn good and Yamaha have moola to burn and they are way ahead because of it. Turn your minds back to the V5 and think about that for a while. His bike now is clearly the best machine on the grid and that is also fact.

Face facts he's had damn good equipment and better than most. Oh his bike sucked for a couple of races in a couple of years big deal most guys have big problems every race. His are whether he finishes 1st or 2nd.

I'm not getting on the "prove I'm not a Rossi hater" treadmill. That is just ridiculous. .... me you guys are getting to be monotonous. I call it as I see it.

Sorry that is... wrong. Rossi never found any such "readymade" situation in the premier class, as Lorenzo found with Yamaha last year.

Lorenzo now says that Rossi found Doohan's bike...

That's wrong. Lorenzo is too young to remember, (or he just prefers to forget) but we should know better...

In his first year in 500 VR inherited Criville's bike, not Doohan's.

It was Criville who inherited Doohan's bike. Unfortunately Criville was a very poor developer, so that after spending Honda's advantage during 1999, he began 2000 on a Honda that had not progressed at all and had lost whatever edge it previously had in Burgess' and Doohan's time.

The proof is Criville's poor results in 2000... Rossi had Burgess, but they were not yet allowed (rightly so) to change the bike, as Rossi was a rookie and development belonged to Criville and his team. Rider # 1 was Criville.

At the end of the 2000 season Honda changed their minds in the face of evidence, and listened to Rossi-Burgess, and the results came soon enough. So they could build the basis for the 2001 NSR which, again, as in Doohan's times was a winner.

Look at the race results of 2000 and 2001 and see what I mean

 

[BarryMachine]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 10 2009, 08:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not blind worship mate, just deriving insight from FACTS and not fiction.........


Well if you don't realise VR has had the BEST of machines and meachanics in MGP from the day he walked in ........... then you are beyond blind

06, and 07 were not the machines ......

I really wish the VR would go to Ducati ...... I place him above Elias's performance on that machine but he's no Stoner.

To me if VR went Duc. and CS went Yamaha in 2011 that would answer many questions

 

[Talpa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 10 2009, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi on the whole has had a technical advantage. That is history not Rossi hating. Don't get your knickers in a knot so easily. He hasn't had to languish his career in the B teams has he? The Rossibots love to cite his early Yamaha years but boys that bike was damn good and Yamaha have moola to burn and they are way ahead because of it. Turn your minds back to the V5 and think about that for a while. His bike now is clearly the best machine on the grid and that is also fact.

Face facts he's had damn good equipment and better than most. Oh his bike sucked for a couple of races in a couple of years big deal most guys have big problems every race. His are whether he finishes 1st or 2nd.

I'm not getting on the "prove I'm not a Rossi hater" treadmill. That is just ridiculous. .... me you guys are getting to be monotonous. I call it as I see it.


Rubbish as usual, what technical advantage did he have in 2001? Was Max, Alex, KRJR, Barros and Co not on equal if not better machinery? What technical advantage did he have against other RC211V riders in 2002-03 including Nicky Hayden and Sete Gibernau, 2 screaming ducks with world title holders on them and Max on the M1?

What Technical advantages did he have in 2004, with Sete and Max on Factory Hondas and VR on the M1 which never really achieved anything prior? 2005 Both Max and Sete also on Factory Hondas, what technical advantage did he have here?

2006-07 VR had massive technical disadvantages/bad luck yet still finished second by 5 points in 06. And 07 well talk about technical advantages......you fail to remember this when sprouting rubbish about Rossi's Tech advantages.
2008- Stoner, Pedderobotos, Hayden and Melandri all on Machinery which was considered technically better than the M1 at the start of 08, so where was his advantage here? Stoner in particular was consistently quicker in 08.

VR is and has been on damn good equipment, but so have his rivals, so if you call it as you see it maybe you need to watch some more and actually pay attention.......

 

[BarryMachine]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 10 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rubbish as usual, what technical advantage did he have in 2001?


Multiple rider winning TEcho .......... JB ........ nuf said, period, say no more, end of story