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Estoril RACE Thread

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 11 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yah know... Curve, I always think of you as the forum's ID, with quick
jolting sound bites. So here you are speaking in full rational sentences
and then you use the words "Fizzer woft" and I'm wondering - what the
.... is a Fizzer woft. I used to own a Fizzer (FZR400) but what the hell is a
woft?

My FZ1 fighter aka Fizzer.
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woft = Wide Open Full Throttle
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 11 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>With the exception of 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2007, I would be inclined to agree with TP70

1996? 1997? 1998? 1999? At least one of those too, in which Rossi did not have the best package don't you think Arrabbiata?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 11 2009, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1996? 1997? 1998? 1999? At least one of those too, in which Rossi did not have the best package don't you think Arrabbiata?
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Quite possibly, but I wasn't taking into account 125 or 250 - and if you do, not by much. a full factory RS125R; RS250R can hardly be considered as inferior....

1996 - yes, 1997 - no, 1998 no; 1999, no
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An example of disadvantaged machinery? - Last season 250 gp, Norge battling forlornly on the Blusens Aprilia, underpowered fossil, dinosaur handling with a prehistoric chassis.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 11 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yup exactly...thats where they prep the engine for optimal performance. get it past breakin and all that..after a race the engine looses reliability and power let alone after 3 races..

If numbnuts theory was correct..i could go outside and hold the Fizzer woft for a few hours and expect a power increase
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well it depends on the parts you wear
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im not saying its advantageous for them to wear out engines. i think it would cause more problems than it solves. this " the engine makes more power just before it ..... up" is true for old fashioned engines that were built to old fashioned tolerances. im just saying fish's theory wasn't that stupid tiz all.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 11 2009, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yah know... Curve, I always think of you as the forum's ID, always with the quick
jolting sound bites. So here you are speaking in complete rational sentences
and then you use the words "Fizzer woft" and I'm wondering - what the
.... is a Fizzer woft? I used to own a Fizzer (FZR400) but what the hell is a
woft?
Wide Open Full Throttle
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Oooops... there's another page!!! Duh.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 11 2009, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yup exactly...thats where they prep the engine for optimal performance. get it past breakin and all that..after a race the engine looses reliability and power let alone after 3 races..

If numbnuts theory was correct..i could go outside and hold the Fizzer woft for a few hours and expect a power increase
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This has been documented numerous times so just stfu. You're the nubnut here. no one else.
Who talk Idiotic here. What physic law says there is any relation between reliability and piston wear.
When a 4 stroke engine blows, do you really think pistons and cams are even on the top 10 list of parts causing the failure? These are the parts that change it's resistance during the life span, together with valves that is. Valves snaps but just like rods and shafts they snap off out of material fatigue not from wear. These engines doesn't last the distance for that kind of wear to be even measurable. So to suggest that they are downhill in performance is truly the stupid statement.

Breaking in? what would you know about that?
Street bikes must be carefully run in? Race engines are run for hours in a bench?

Except for some freak kawasaki models run in is no longer really needed. The reason they keep it is probably to detect production errors in a less fatal way than woft. Allthough most factories are leaving it all together now. Honda's instruction is mainly down to: Take it easy the first 500km. No real limits or details at all. The engines get their first run in at factory and it is woft as soon as the temp needle moves. After that is really doesn't matter what you do to the engine. It's pretty much bullet proof.
A race engine probably get a similar run to peak power to make sure things stay together then it's on to the track. They can't afford the time to wear in friction part as it stresses the structure of all kind of low weight parts that get all that abuse from a high reving engine.
 
no one said .... about certain parts being top ten..engine failure is engine failure... my bad, not a numb nut, a ....... ...... would think an engine thats been wound out for 3 races straight is gonna be better than the engine fresh for a race..
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 12 2009, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no one said .... about certain parts being top ten..engine failure is engine failure... my bad, not a numb nut, a ....... ...... would think an engine thats been wound out for 3 races straight is gonna be better than the engine fresh for a race..
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Sounds like you wouldn't know an engine failure if it hit you in the face
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I never said better I said more power, but defiantly more unreliable.
Instead of calling people names maybe you could try an argument for change?
Exactly what is it that gets so worn that it creates a measurable power loss?

All I say is that friction wear is not an issue i.e. not reaching a critical limit, material fatigue is. Beginning material fatigue does not change engine power output at all, it runs just as good (or bad) as it started out doing until something snaps. Friction wear on the other hand change the internal friction and that is a big ting for power in two ways: First of all the direct gain by less friction means more output, secondly less friction means less heat and indirectly more power.
Even if pure race engines are probably built with more clearance between cylinder and piston than what a production engine have there must be considerable gains from wear of all tight fittings inside an engine.
In fact, I'm a bit chocked. I thought this was general knowledge for anyone interested in engines. For a race engine wear is a Good Thing up to a certain limit. Pistons are better the looser they are until they start rattling to much. As long as the rings do their job the engine will seem tight and without excessive oil consuption. And finally, friction wear are either painfully slow, or almost instantly fatal. there is not too much in between. If the oil film breaks you have a fatal blow up in no time, if it holds the wear is very small and need considerable time to go from within spec to dangerously outside spec.