Hey I'm not close minded. I just don't see Rossi on a piece of .... like 80% of the field continuously are and don't think in your analysis because there are satellite Honda or Yamaha bikes on the track that they are equal to the no. 1 guys. They can only adjust the suspension on those bikes. The motor and programming forget-about-it. Even the "crap" Yami he won the world title on was better than every bike on the grid. In Stoner's year yes Ducati had a motor advantage but not for the whole year and it still handled like .... the difference being Stoner, ya I said it. On the whole he's had the best equipment. Maybe he deserved it but that is another discussion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 9 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Come off it.......VR haters really need no excuse, only the simplest of reasons brings the rock spiders out......but a Dutch journalist heard this, a Portuguese journo heard that. Hard to take as fact unless you are a Tabloid Hype monkey or just dieing for a reason to soapbox and bring down the GOAT. Why didn't he say it at a press conference or in post-race interviews as CS does, or maybe a Nicky style dummy spit in the sand pit, then at least you would have footage to back it up
Careful who you go calling a child molester there big man.
Now, the funny aspect is that many 'articles' attributed to the likes of Stoner, Pedrosa et al have originated from the very same 'an uncle of mine knows a guy who works for a bloke who polishes teh footpegs on the bike Uccio rode in the pits and he overheard' type of scenario that you are so critical of here. Of course, there have been time when you and others have formed opinions based upon those self same articles and used them as 'proof' in some (not all) of your own arguments, thus the criticism of pot, kettle that has been mentioned.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 9 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have always questioned reports, especially the ones you base your bias hatred tainted conspiracy theories on.
Now, that said and done I will say that I have always advocated that one would need to see the interview to allow one to see the inflections and body language that would assist in determining the seriousness of the subjects answers.
Personally I don't actually see this as any different and yes, I would much prefer seeing the interview before passing judgement as to whether Rossi is feeling 'deflated' by the challenge (IMO - he was probably more deflated and disappointed in the weekend if he said anything at all).
For me, I say that I would prefer to see the interview (bearing in mind translation issues etc) simply because if VR was to make comments like this it would be the first time I have heard him seem 'defeated/deflated' with an issue outside of his immediate influence, a new experience if you will and yes, surprising (if true).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 9 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The silly part about the half wit vultures circling after one poor performance is that you all are leaving yourselves open to be hammered if the pendulum swings back (as it always has) the other way next week.....
I just love the way you throw insult into your arguments - why is that?
Now, I actually don't see many people circling a VR carcass as you seem to, but then being a half-wit vulture maybe I am blinded.
No, for me I see people wondering why VR performed poorly, reacted out side his usual manner (and visibly so) yet is not or was not as criticised as others - I don't see people hoping he fails so much as people enjoying the competition and his reactions.
Now, before you start, it is VR and any person who writes off VR because of one or two sub-standard performances would need to seriously consider their faculties as you do not get his results without being exceptional, and you write off the exceptional at ones peril. VR however now has to be careful as he has a championship leadto defend which is something he has rarely had to do so far from the end of the season (usually he has a greater margin with the immediate exception of 2006).
I for one am very interested to see how he now accepts this challenge and handles what is a straight out VR vs JL dogfight as to me, the remainder of teh season has two battles that should make good viewing.
Gaz
Careful who you go calling a child molester there big man.
Now, the funny aspect is that many 'articles' attributed to the likes of Stoner, Pedrosa et al have originated from the very same 'an uncle of mine knows a guy who works for a bloke who polishes teh footpegs on the bike Uccio rode in the pits and he overheard' type of scenario that you are so critical of here. Of course, there have been time when you and others have formed opinions based upon those self same articles and used them as 'proof' in some (not all) of your own arguments, thus the criticism of pot, kettle that has been mentioned.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 9 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have always questioned reports, especially the ones you base your bias hatred tainted conspiracy theories on.
Now, that said and done I will say that I have always advocated that one would need to see the interview to allow one to see the inflections and body language that would assist in determining the seriousness of the subjects answers.
Personally I don't actually see this as any different and yes, I would much prefer seeing the interview before passing judgement as to whether Rossi is feeling 'deflated' by the challenge (IMO - he was probably more deflated and disappointed in the weekend if he said anything at all).
For me, I say that I would prefer to see the interview (bearing in mind translation issues etc) simply because if VR was to make comments like this it would be the first time I have heard him seem 'defeated/deflated' with an issue outside of his immediate influence, a new experience if you will and yes, surprising (if true).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 9 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The silly part about the half wit vultures circling after one poor performance is that you all are leaving yourselves open to be hammered if the pendulum swings back (as it always has) the other way next week.....
I just love the way you throw insult into your arguments - why is that?
Now, I actually don't see many people circling a VR carcass as you seem to, but then being a half-wit vulture maybe I am blinded.
No, for me I see people wondering why VR performed poorly, reacted out side his usual manner (and visibly so) yet is not or was not as criticised as others - I don't see people hoping he fails so much as people enjoying the competition and his reactions.
Now, before you start, it is VR and any person who writes off VR because of one or two sub-standard performances would need to seriously consider their faculties as you do not get his results without being exceptional, and you write off the exceptional at ones peril. VR however now has to be careful as he has a championship leadto defend which is something he has rarely had to do so far from the end of the season (usually he has a greater margin with the immediate exception of 2006).
I for one am very interested to see how he now accepts this challenge and handles what is a straight out VR vs JL dogfight as to me, the remainder of teh season has two battles that should make good viewing.
Gaz
Joined Oct 2007
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 10 2009, 02:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Multiple rider winning TEcho .......... JB ........ nuf said, period, say no more, end of story
Burgess and Rossi were not permitted to change the bike they inherited from Criville in 2000, at least until the end of the season when Honda saw that Criville was not delivering. Development in 2000 was in the hands of Criville, who had spoilt a good bike and taken it in the wrong direction during the winter. Enough said!
BTW, it was Burgess who chose Rossi, and accepted to come out of early retirement to work with him. There must have been a reason for that, no? Some Doohan-like talent he saw? 'Nuff said...
Burgess and Rossi were not permitted to change the bike they inherited from Criville in 2000, at least until the end of the season when Honda saw that Criville was not delivering. Development in 2000 was in the hands of Criville, who had spoilt a good bike and taken it in the wrong direction during the winter. Enough said!
BTW, it was Burgess who chose Rossi, and accepted to come out of early retirement to work with him. There must have been a reason for that, no? Some Doohan-like talent he saw? 'Nuff said...
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Has anyone considered the possibility that VR could have been using a "non-fresh" engine at Estoril (where he figured from past results that he could do well, even with a tired engine) to save the fresh motors for PI, Sepang, and Valencia?... I have no idea, but there's gotta be some engine strategizing going on behind the scenes, nyet?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 10 2009, 02:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey I'm not close minded. I just don't see Rossi on a piece of .... like 80% of the field continuously are and don't think in your analysis because there are satellite Honda or Yamaha bikes on the track that they are equal to the no. 1 guys. They can only adjust the suspension on those bikes. The motor and programming forget-about-it. Even the "crap" Yami he won the world title on was better than every bike on the grid. In Stoner's year yes Ducati had a motor advantage but not for the whole year and it still handled like .... the difference being Stoner, ya I said it. On the whole he's had the best equipment. Maybe he deserved it but that is another discussion.
Of course the best riders always attract the best manufacturers and the best technicians.
But in Rossi' career, the only bike he found in winning shape from the start was the Aprilia.
In 2000, Honda had been spoilt by Criville. Please read the results of 2000, see how the Hondas struggled in the first half of the season until Rossi and Burgess were permittedf to change the bike...
In 2004, to say that the Yamaha was the best bike is preposterous. It became the best bike, a year later. Rossi always built whatever advantage he had--he never found it readymade.
Of course the best riders always attract the best manufacturers and the best technicians.
But in Rossi' career, the only bike he found in winning shape from the start was the Aprilia.
In 2000, Honda had been spoilt by Criville. Please read the results of 2000, see how the Hondas struggled in the first half of the season until Rossi and Burgess were permittedf to change the bike...
In 2004, to say that the Yamaha was the best bike is preposterous. It became the best bike, a year later. Rossi always built whatever advantage he had--he never found it readymade.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 10 2009, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone considered the possibility that VR could have been using a "non-fresh" engine at Estoril (where he figured from past results that he could do well, even with a tired engine) to save the fresh motors for PI, Sepang, and Valencia?... I have no idea, but there's gotta be some engine strategizing going on behind the scenes, nyet?
Don't think it was the engine, as it was apparent Rossi had a grip problem. I agree for Estoril they might have chosen a rather conservative setup, to minimizie risks and aim for the podium, since they knew beating Lorenzo at Estoril was very difficult. But the conservative setup backfired...
Don't think it was the engine, as it was apparent Rossi had a grip problem. I agree for Estoril they might have chosen a rather conservative setup, to minimizie risks and aim for the podium, since they knew beating Lorenzo at Estoril was very difficult. But the conservative setup backfired...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 10 2009, 08:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not blind worship mate, just deriving insight from FACTS and not fiction.........
Hahahahahahahahahahaha....facts as perceived by your extremely narrow point of view. You are about as factual as Michael Jackson telling people his nose was the one he was born with, may he rest in peace.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha....facts as perceived by your extremely narrow point of view. You are about as factual as Michael Jackson telling people his nose was the one he was born with, may he rest in peace.
I agree that Rossi has always developed his bike into the best equipment. I also think that due to his personality and leverage he has never had to compete against someone, until now, with the same level of developed machinery that he has had access to. Additionally, the several years of special tyres I believe played an enormous role in his many successes. Sure others got them too but did they get VR's special tyres or their own special tyres. We all know VR likes tyres different to most.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Oct 10 2009, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that Rossi has always developed his bike into the best equipment. I also think that due to his personality and leverage he has never had to compete against someone, until now, with the same level of developed machinery that he has had access to. Additionally, the several years of special tyres I believe played an enormous role in his many successes. Sure others got them too but did they get VR's special tyres or their own special tyres. We all know VR likes tyres different to most.
Man… why is it so hard then? 'Rossi likes tyres different to most'… That is seen as Rossi gets specials. But then again, if most riders prefer other tyres, it means they have 'A Lot' more data on those 'No Specials', which would simplify the development of them tyres.
Some fans just don't like Rossi, and hate that he has achieve so much. Then again, he has achieved so much, more so than any other Rider. Yes, I know he has not gotten all of Agostini's records, but Agostini has Not got all of Rossi's record either, for example, who has more wins in Top Class?
Man… why is it so hard then? 'Rossi likes tyres different to most'… That is seen as Rossi gets specials. But then again, if most riders prefer other tyres, it means they have 'A Lot' more data on those 'No Specials', which would simplify the development of them tyres.
Some fans just don't like Rossi, and hate that he has achieve so much. Then again, he has achieved so much, more so than any other Rider. Yes, I know he has not gotten all of Agostini's records, but Agostini has Not got all of Rossi's record either, for example, who has more wins in Top Class?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 10 2009, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Has anyone considered the possibility that VR could have been using a "non-fresh" engine at Estoril (where he figured from past results that he could do well, even with a tired engine) to save the fresh motors for PI, Sepang, and Valencia?... I have no idea, but there's gotta be some engine strategizing going on behind the scenes, nyet?
Non fresh engines produce more power.
On a road bike that often translates to engines increasing power until they reach 20-30k km
On a race bike it probably produce more and more power until it blows.
Of course they might detune a non fresh engine to avoid that blow. In that case he really shouldn't have a grip problem.
Non fresh engines produce more power.
On a road bike that often translates to engines increasing power until they reach 20-30k km
On a race bike it probably produce more and more power until it blows.
Of course they might detune a non fresh engine to avoid that blow. In that case he really shouldn't have a grip problem.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Oct 10 2009, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hahahahahahahahahahaha....facts as perceived by your extremely narrow point of view. You are about as factual as Michael Jackson telling people his nose was the one he was born with, may he rest in peace.
Yep facts, give me facts not rubbish like rossi has always had better equipment throughout his career than anyone,
Yep facts, give me facts not rubbish like rossi has always had better equipment throughout his career than anyone,
Joined Apr 2008
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Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Oct 11 2009, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep facts, give me facts not rubbish like rossi has always had better equipment throughout his career than anyone,
With the exception of 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2007, I would be inclined to agree with TP70
With the exception of 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2007, I would be inclined to agree with TP70
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 11 2009, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>With the exception of 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2007, I would be inclined to agree with TP70
Rossi switched to the nowhere near as good as the rc211v in 04 yam and win's. Then he goes on to win in 05 on which some here say was the superior bike.
So Tp70 ,which is it . Did rossi and burgess do the impossible and build the best bike in only one season. or was rossi still doing miracles on the yam that only had a year to try and match what is considered the best race bike ever ? You take away rossi achievement's by saying he is on the best bike but give no credit to him and his team for making it the best bike.
Rossi switched to the nowhere near as good as the rc211v in 04 yam and win's. Then he goes on to win in 05 on which some here say was the superior bike.
So Tp70 ,which is it . Did rossi and burgess do the impossible and build the best bike in only one season. or was rossi still doing miracles on the yam that only had a year to try and match what is considered the best race bike ever ? You take away rossi achievement's by saying he is on the best bike but give no credit to him and his team for making it the best bike.
Joined May 2009
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Oct 10 2009, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Non fresh engines produce more power.
On a road bike that often translates to engines increasing power until they reach 20-30k km
On a race bike it probably produce more and more power until it blows.
Of course they might detune a non fresh engine to avoid that blow. In that case he really shouldn't have a grip problem.
Umm yeah, maybe in road bikes as in the ones we ride at home. But I find it highly unlikely that this is true about gp bikes. Or is this something you were able to see on through your tv?
On a road bike that often translates to engines increasing power until they reach 20-30k km
On a race bike it probably produce more and more power until it blows.
Of course they might detune a non fresh engine to avoid that blow. In that case he really shouldn't have a grip problem.
Umm yeah, maybe in road bikes as in the ones we ride at home. But I find it highly unlikely that this is true about gp bikes. Or is this something you were able to see on through your tv?
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Oct 10 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Non fresh engines produce more power.
On a road bike that often translates to engines increasing power until they reach 20-30k km
On a race bike it probably produce more and more power until it blows.
thats ....... idiotic
On a road bike that often translates to engines increasing power until they reach 20-30k km
On a race bike it probably produce more and more power until it blows.
thats ....... idiotic
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 11 2009, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats ....... idiotic
Not as stupid as you may think. Worn engines can produce more power because of less internal friction, this can amount to a fairly large percentage. As long as there is not wear that causes compression to be reduced. In engines like those in motogp this affect would not be as apparent due to the high tech low friction materials and oils they use.
Not as stupid as you may think. Worn engines can produce more power because of less internal friction, this can amount to a fairly large percentage. As long as there is not wear that causes compression to be reduced. In engines like those in motogp this affect would not be as apparent due to the high tech low friction materials and oils they use.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Oct 11 2009, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not as stupid as you may think. Worn engines can produce more power because of less internal friction, this can amount to a fairly large percentage. As long as there is not wear that causes compression to be reduced. In engines like those in motogp this affect would not be as apparent dure to the high tech low friction materials they use.
Yes Rogy i know, ive also built motors
But these are not touring bikes.. The engineers build the engines, run them for a predetermined amount till tests complete, break in achieved... They dont break these engines in on track...maybe they'll get a little more performance after a few laps sure, she loosens up a bit more but beyond that its all down hill for that engine....
Yes Rogy i know, ive also built motors
But these are not touring bikes.. The engineers build the engines, run them for a predetermined amount till tests complete, break in achieved... They dont break these engines in on track...maybe they'll get a little more performance after a few laps sure, she loosens up a bit more but beyond that its all down hill for that engine....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 11 2009, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes Rogy i know, ive also built motors
But these are not touring bikes.. The engineers build the engines, run them for a predetermined amount till tests complete, break in achieved... They dont break these engines in on track...maybe they'll get a little more performance after a few laps sure, she loosens up a bit more but beyond that its all down hill for that engine....
They break the engines in on a dyno
But these are not touring bikes.. The engineers build the engines, run them for a predetermined amount till tests complete, break in achieved... They dont break these engines in on track...maybe they'll get a little more performance after a few laps sure, she loosens up a bit more but beyond that its all down hill for that engine....
They break the engines in on a dyno
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Oct 11 2009, 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They break the engines in on a dyno
yup exactly...thats where they prep the engine for optimal performance. get it past breakin and all that..after a race the engine looses reliability and power let alone after 3 races..
If numbnuts theory was correct..i could go outside and hold the Fizzer woft for a few hours and expect a power increase
yup exactly...thats where they prep the engine for optimal performance. get it past breakin and all that..after a race the engine looses reliability and power let alone after 3 races..
If numbnuts theory was correct..i could go outside and hold the Fizzer woft for a few hours and expect a power increase
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Oct 11 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yup exactly...thats where they prep the engine for optimal performance. get it past breakin and all that..after a race the engine looses reliability and power let alone after 3 races..
If numbnuts theory was correct..i could go outside and hold the Fizzer woft for a few hours and expect a power increase
Yah know... Curve, I always think of you as the forum's ID, always with the quick
jolting sound bites. So here you are speaking in complete rational sentences
and then you use the words "Fizzer woft" and I'm wondering - what the
.... is a Fizzer woft? I used to own a Fizzer (FZR400) but what the hell is a
woft?
If numbnuts theory was correct..i could go outside and hold the Fizzer woft for a few hours and expect a power increase
Yah know... Curve, I always think of you as the forum's ID, always with the quick
jolting sound bites. So here you are speaking in complete rational sentences
and then you use the words "Fizzer woft" and I'm wondering - what the
.... is a Fizzer woft? I used to own a Fizzer (FZR400) but what the hell is a
woft?
