donnington race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stevo @ Jul 28 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, I'm on it now.

Got some up from Sunday first.
liking what im seeing dude

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 28 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry gaz, I spent all weekend looking for my notes. Luckly the bookstore had motogp for dummies in stock. I must also apologize for including you in the gay-tard blast . That was a pinky joke gone wrong. I enjoy going back and forth with you, unlike others you keep me laughing the whole time. You are right about the insults I have done a good job until then, but like I said that was a bad call on my part to go there. Please forgive me.


All cool, buy yourself a beer and I will get over it.








Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 28 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Ducati riders chose to use wets, not just as a strategy, but also as self-preservation, is that dumb?

Sorry Jumkie, but yes, the answer to that question is yes… What is the point of ‘Racing’ if you are going to cruise around slowly not to fall to 14th and 15th based on self preservation? I am not responding just because of my biased glasses of Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 28 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It made infinitely more sense for him [Hayden] to choose this unpopular gamble than anybody else actually.

Only two choose a gamble for that choice from start… ‘Infinitely’ compared to just another rider! And ‘More sense’… Like from No Sense (infinitely), all the way to ‘More Sense’, implies that the choice had not much sense!

Stoner after Q: “I'd almost prefer it to rain because it would be better for my physical condition”… Was praying the lords for rain!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 28 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh Lord, how I wish we could live in an alternate universe where we could see the reaction if the opposite had occurred...

On an alternative universe it would have poured rain and Rossi would have chosen wets! (Joking compa).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 28 2009, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The correct strategy was to go slowly on slick tires.

So says Pedrosa and look where he ended!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 28 2009, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really, if the press want to gang .... somebody for stupidity, it's got to be Rossi. Both Lorenzo and Stoner were out of contention and he binned it trying to protect a relatively unimportant lead.

No doubt it was ‘Stupid’ of Rossi, but as he said: “I go for the win always”. And even if it is Stupid and you get away with it, it is not embarrassing. If I had been Pedrosa’s manager, I would have been shouting at him: “Risk it you dope!”

So I recon the four of them were ‘Stupid’ in due moment, just happens that some were not embarrassing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Renjith @ Jul 28 2009, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi,

My first post in this forum (though I have been reading this forum for last 2 years).


Now, since this is my first post, go easy on me guys

Cheers
Renjith
Hi Ren, I've seen you lurking for some time, I'm glad you finally took the plung.

I like you well thought out post, but I think your probabilities were a bit unrealistic. I do agree that a first to fourth point swing is as you say, but the conditions were really up in the air to assess it like a dry race. People keep saying that Ross/Lorenzo's crash is irrelevant, but that's nonsense since their crashes have corolation to their risk of tire choice, but it seems only Stoner's tire choice is bein maligned.

I read the following on superbikeplanet.com
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Casey Stoner and Nicky Hayden both say they decided to gamble on wet tyres, but for different reasons. Nicky took the Lawson gamble; marooned at the back of the grid so why not 'roll the dice.' Casey on the other hand was influenced
by his physical condition. 'Everyone knows my situation in dry races.'

It seems Casey was thinking about self-preservation (something that seems to be unacceptable with arm chair quaterbacks sitting at home while they ride on the edge). So your probabilities are base on dry type conditions, but as you know, in wet races, anything can happen, as you may recall, Melandri almost scored a win this year in such conditions. So all bets are off--inherently its all a gamble (some pay off, some don't).

Even the race winner new that these conditions were so abnormal that he quipped a modest victory speech:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Dovizioso was bleakly realistic in victory. 'We must now fight with the best but under normal conditions.'

Ah, you just got to love Collin Edwards assessment of the race conditions though:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Colin Edwards was a lot more quotable. The race was, he opined, '48
minutes of complete ........, I wouldn't wish that race on my worst enemy.

This is coming from a podium finisher and a veteran of the sport. So Ren, we sit here and say, yeah, Stoner's decision to be cautions in such cold, wet, and atrocious conditions was a bad gamble. How in the world are the to crashes from the lead, by his two rivals, not factored in to your assessment of the gamble? This indicates just how tenable were the conditions. Most just don't want to accept any relevance in those crashes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 28 2009, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really, if the press want to gang .... somebody for stupidity, it's got to be Rossi. Both Lorenzo and Stoner were out of contention and he binned it trying to protect a relatively unimportant lead.


You got any hate mail yet? You obviously didn't get the memo, Rossi makes only sound decisions. Stoner makes dumb one--always. Thank God for bent but not broken levers, eh? Perhpas the soggy kitty litter was part of the calculation.

just for clarity....

Typical clutch lever on Rossi's Yamaha (circa 2006)....



they don't snap, they fold upward in a crash. in the "on bike footage" footage from the race, you can see it fold up, then Rossi pushing it back down in place once he remounts. Those Brembo levers rarely snap off....CRG makes similar setup you can put on your streetbike:

http://www.constructorsrg.com/levers/gp_clutch.html


Rossi finishing because a miracle lower spec clutch lever not snapping off? I think not....it's engineered not to....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jeff in ohio @ Jul 28 2009, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>just for clarity....

Typical clutch lever on Rossi's Yamaha (circa 2006)....



they don't snap, they fold upward in a crash. in the "on bike footage" footage from the race, you can see it fold up, then Rossi pushing it back down in place once he remounts. Those Brembo levers rarely snap off....CRG makes similar setup you can put on your streetbike:

http://www.constructorsrg.com/levers/gp_clutch.html


Rossi finishing because a miracle lower spec clutch lever not snapping off? I think not....it's engineered not to....

He's lucky he didn't snap a foot control. Thanks for the info but Rossi's ... isn't out of the woods yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 28 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You may have your own definitions of what's conservative and not but starting close to the front, still very much in the points fight for the championship you always do the same as the others. That's the conservative choice in racing.
Consequently doing the opposite is the radical choice.

Yes, if you ignore the conditions it was a gamble. But sometimes I wonder what world we're living in when the press call Ducati gamblers for running rain tires at the BRITISH GP when it was already raining. It's Britain, who the hell bets that it's going to stop raining?

If Ducati were reckless gamblers, what did they put at risk? The race proved that they didn't put 25 pts at risk b/c it was the midpackers who were able to push without worrying about the championship. Ducati put 10-15 pts at risk (about the same as a normal dry weekend when Stoner is not 100%) in order to go for an "easy win". The race was not a disaster for Ducati, it was nearly identical to the week before in regards to the points.

There must be some other motivation. I know Stoner isn't popular so that could be a big selling point. Maybe the press are giving in to the sensationalism of Ducati getting lapped?

for 3 weeks ducati (stoner and hayden) will taste of stupidest and ..... because of wet Tyre
even so there a rain @ 4-5 lap, you miss alot of gap at that time and the tyre already destroyer and have to change for another wet tyre. that why i won't say it's a gamble
if play safe than go, play some kid gokart,

ok, i was not trackside on sunday (but tantalisingly close to donington) and the weather at the time was doing everything. clear patches followed by rain and then drizzle and back to just clouds. the only consistent thing was the wind.
I know its an if but IF the wind had changed direction by a few degrees for an few minutes, that race would have had a totally different outcome and some would be singing ducatis praises. as it is, it didnt work. i can fully understand casey taking that choice, it was one of those days that you just cant tell with any certainty.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 29 2009, 04:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, if you ignore the conditions it was a gamble. But sometimes I wonder what world we're living in when the press call Ducati gamblers for running rain tires at the BRITISH GP when it was already raining. It's Britain, who the hell bets that it's going to stop raining?
Yes, it must be the rest of the world that is crazy and you that is normal. Not the other way around, right?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>If Ducati were reckless gamblers, what did they put at risk? The race proved that they didn't put 25 pts at risk b/c it was the midpackers who were able to push without worrying about the championship. Ducati put 10-15 pts at risk (about the same as a normal dry weekend when Stoner is not 100%) in order to go for an "easy win". The race was not a disaster for Ducati, it was nearly identical to the week before in regards to the points.
You really neeeeed to check on your risk assessment calculations.
Risk can not be calculated based on the finished result. It's always 25 points on the line, and both the riders need them dearly.

The race was a disaster because allthough they didn't loose more than about 10 points the upside this time was to gain about 15 points. = 25 points. Just as if they scored 0-2 points last race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>There must be some other motivation. I know Stoner isn't popular so that could be a big selling point. Maybe the press are giving in to the sensationalism of Ducati getting lapped?
Sure, all the papers and his team manager, let's not forget about him, they all hate Stoner. Huge blunders are good stuff for the press. Lapping, rain tires, ...... up choices.... it's all good stuff.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 29 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok, i was not trackside on sunday (but tantalisingly close to donington) and the weather at the time was doing everything. clear patches followed by rain and then drizzle and back to just clouds. the only consistent thing was the wind.
I know its an if but IF the wind had changed direction by a few degrees for an few minutes, that race would have had a totally different outcome and some would be singing ducatis praises. as it is, it didnt work. i can fully understand casey taking that choice, it was one of those days that you just cant tell with any certainty.


i agree. when we looked to the right at the times it wasn't raining you could see big black rain clouds that looked outside the circuit, had the wind changed to from northerly to easterly we would have had a very wet race i think. I think the uk residents on the forum understand the british weather and how quickly it changes than some of our friends from other parts of the world. We can get all 4 seasons in 5 minutes here. Choosing slicks was as much a gamble as choosing wets. if intermedeiate's were available i bet all would have started with them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 29 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> if intermedeiate's were available i bet all would have started with them.

bingo!

just think how much typing you could have saved jumkie by posting that 2 days ago!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 29 2009, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>bingo!

just think how much typing you could have saved jumkie by posting that 2 days ago!





i sometime wonder why i bother ??
link
check the date of the post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 29 2009, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if intermedeiate's were available i bet all would have started with them.
I was thinking the same thing, why weren't they all out there on cut slicks. This really boils down to a safety issue if the rules don't allow an intermediate tire.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Jul 29 2009, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was thinking the same thing, why weren't they all out there on cut slicks. This really boils down to a safety issue if the rules don't allow an intermediate tire.
Teams are not aloud to cut there own slicks but bridgstone can as long as there made available to all teams. given the wet weather on the Saturday im surprised bridgstone didnt do something.This is why i was against a single tyre rule. Still think it was a good idea jumkie ??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 28 2009, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok, i was not trackside on sunday (but tantalisingly close to donington) and the weather at the time was doing everything. clear patches followed by rain and then drizzle and back to just clouds. the only consistent thing was the wind.
I know its an if but IF the wind had changed direction by a few degrees for an few minutes, that race would have had a totally different outcome and some would be singing ducatis praises. as it is, it didnt work. i can fully understand casey taking that choice, it was one of those days that you just cant tell with any certainty.



Great post Biggy, BTW, not sure what feed you guys get, but the one we got: Nicky Harris ad Gavin Emmet reported rain at the end of lap one. In fact shortly after that they reported the teams in the paddock warming up their rain bikes withing three laps. One of the commentators who was in the paddock said the rain was really coming down in the pit and said perhaps Ducati's gamble would pay off. My point: Its not that far fetched that they went with a alternate possibility to the tire choice. Again, no of us is saying that the gamble paid off, I'm just saying it was reasonable to think, in such a shifting condition, that the decision was not our of this world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 29 2009, 04:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i agree. when we looked to the right at the times it wasn't raining you could see big black rain clouds that looked outside the circuit, had the wind changed to from northerly to easterly we would have had a very wet race i think. I think the uk residents on the forum understand the british weather and how quickly it changes than some of our friends from other parts of the world. We can get all 4 seasons in 5 minutes here. Choosing slicks was as much a gamble as choosing wets. if intermedeiate's were available i bet all would have started with them.

Thanks for your input on this Rog (from somebody on the ground and seeing the conditions first hand). And I think your take on the need for intermediates needs to be addressed. Good call.

Wayne Rainey Said it himself "anything can happen in Racing" so choosing wet tires wasnt that stupid it was a gamble that didnt pay off. Nicky didn't lose out as much as Stoner did, it seems Stoners championship hopes are sliping away race by race.

Yamaha!!! Im sure a million people have said it But how lucky was Rossi that he was able to get back on his bike and finish the race. Poor Jorge, that wet white line was a pain in the .... Im really hoping Rossi wont run away with the championship the rest of this season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The California Kid @ Jul 29 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha!!! Im sure a million people have said it But how lucky was Rossi that he was able to get back on his bike and finish the race. Poor Jorge, that wet white line was a pain in the .... Im really hoping Rossi wont run away with the championship the rest of this season.
Thats the point isnt it mate. Ask lorenzo if the Slick "gamble" was a good idea. You could argue casey and haydens gamble paid off more than lorenzo's