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Brno 2016

Marc in Parc Ferme: I was lucky, honestly, because Valentino was in front and with his slipstream I was able to be a little bit faster. Then on the last corner, I don't know what happened, but I saw that Valentino was preparing the last lap and then I say "Ok, I need to go in because if not I will lose too many time".
 
Marc in Parc Ferme: I was lucky, honestly, because Valentino was in front and with his slipstream I was able to be a little bit faster. Then on the last corner, I don't know what happened, but I saw that Valentino was preparing the last lap and then I say "Ok, I need to go in because if not I will lose too many time".

I saw that too. And your point is?
 
Marc in Parc Ferme: I was lucky, honestly, because Valentino was in front and with his slipstream I was able to be a little bit faster. Then on the last corner, I don't know what happened, but I saw that Valentino was preparing the last lap and then I say "Ok, I need to go in because if not I will lose too many time".

You just argued against your own point with this quote.

It wasn't planned out to get some slipstream benefit. I have an issue with guys planning out trying to get a tow (Hector Barbera) or to follow faster riders to find the lines they can't find on their own in qualifying.
 
You just argued against your own point with this quote.

It wasn't planned out to get some slipstream benefit. I have an issue with guys planning out trying to get a tow (Hector Barbera) or to follow faster riders to find the lines they can't find on their own in qualifying.

You think Marc was going to admit to purposely getting into Rossi's slipstream because he knew he needed assistance to beat Lorenzo's time?

Lorenzo set his times without any slipstream, he was the best rider in Q2.
 
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You think Marc was going to admit to purposely getting into Rossi's slipstream because he knew he needed assistance to beat Lorenzo's time?

Lorenzo set his times without any slipstream, he was the best rider in Q2.
Again Rossi is not MM's team-mate next year, MM beat Rossi's best lap by a second and Lorenzo's by 0.3 seconds, and no-one including Lorenzo and Yamaha or anyone else other than you is complaining (it would appear, weirdly given your general stance, on behalf of Lorenzo) as far as I am aware.

MM had the choice of having his best lap screwed by catching Rossi and Pol or making a pass, using a slipstream or otherwise. If it impeded Rossi's next lap. tough, anyone in the field is going to make the same choice, and as JPS said Rossi should have been faster and/or positioned himself better for that lap.
 
Again Rossi is not MM's team-mate next year, MM beat Rossi's best lap by a second and Lorenzo's by 0.3 seconds, and no-one including Lorenzo and Yamaha or anyone else other than you is complaining (it would appear, weirdly given your general stance, on behalf of Lorenzo) as far as I am aware.

MM had the choice of having his best lap screwed by catching Rossi and Pol or making a pass, using a slipstream or otherwise. If it impeded Rossi's next lap. tough, anyone in the field is going to make the same choice, and as JPS said Rossi should have been faster and/or positioned himself better for that lap.

Again nobody cares who is who's teammate next year. That doesn't have anything to do with this subject. You've been stuck on that teammate .... since Mugello. Teammate is the first person you want to beat.

You're a hypocrite. If Rossi impeded Marquez in any way during qualifying... you would be screaming for him to be penalized. Rossi wouldn't have thought to take a defensive line in the last corner because typically getting block passed only occurs in a race.
 
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Again nobody cares who is who's teammate next year. That doesn't have anything to do with this subject. You've been stuck on that teammate .... since Mugello. Teammate is the first person you want to beat.

You're a hypocrite. If Rossi impeded Marquez in any way during qualifying... you would be screaming for him to be penalized.

What doesn't have anything to do with current reality is your invention/supposition of my reaction or that of other posters to entirely hypothetical situations.

JPS has maintained an entirely consistent attitude to people seeking tows; weirdly you actually seem to be agreeing with him about one of his major arguments, that Lorenzo sets his times on his own, after dismissing this point when previously made by him (and Lorenzo). If you saw the whole lap you have the advantage on him, me and everyone else, but it seems unlikely MM pre-planned gaining a tow, but rather reacted to having his pole lap possibly ruined when he caught slower riders by pulling off a move few if any other riders would have managed.

With the Vinales "tow", it was Suzuki and not me who expressed disappointment that a possible pole which was important to them had been lost by a margin perhaps explicable by a "tow" given by their rider, and I expressed some sympathy with their disappointment. In this case, neither Lorenzo nor Yamaha have complained about being deprived of a pole. That is all.
 
What doesn't have anything to do with current reality is your invention/supposition of my or other poster's reactions to entirely hypothetical situations.

JPS has maintained an entirely consistent attitude to people seeking tows; weirdly you actually seem to be agreeing with him about one of his major arguments, that Lorenzo sets his times on his own, after dismissing it when previously made by him (and Lorenzo). If you saw the whole lap you have the advantage on him, me and everyone else, but it seems unlikely MM pre-planned gaining a tow, but rather reacted to having his pole lap possibly ruined when he caught slower riders by pulling off a move few if any other riders would have managed.

With the Vinales "tow", it was Suzuki and not me who expressed disappointment that a possible pole which was important to them had been lost by a margin perhaps explicable by a "tow" given by their rider, and I expressed some sympathy with their disappointment. In this case, neither Lorenzo nor Yamaha have complained about being deprived of a pole.That is all.

Marc's entire pole lap is up on MotoGP's facebook page. It's not very different from Rossi chasing down Vinales to benefit from the slipstream in the last sector, except Rossi didn't block pass Vinales to potentially screw up his qualifying.

Funny how even when Rossi chased down Vinales in Mugello, he wasn't given credit because he got to use Vinales as a reference/marker. Marc used Rossi as a reference, slipstream, and block passed him in qualifying and it's all defined as "awesome riding".
 
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Marc's entire pole lap is up on MotoGP's facebook page. It's not very different from Rossi chasing down Vinales to benefit from the slipstream in the last sector, except Rossi didn't block pass Vinales to potentially screw up his qualifying.

Don't do facebook, and never will. I did look for it on the Motogp site but at that time they only had the highlights (including the pass) I had already seen, despite my videopass.

Rossi didn't abort his lap going into the last corner either, which you seem to be suggesting MM should have done.

EDIT You continue on your recent course of just making things up. What part of it being Lorenzo rather than Rossi who lost pole on this occasion do you not understand, and when did anyone say Rossi (9 championships, over 100 GP wins, etc etc) needed to or was seeking to study Vinales' lines, something JPS has applied to the likes of Barbera iirc.
 
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Don't do facebook, and never will. I did look for it on the Motogp site but at that time they only had the highlights (including the pass) I had already seen despite my videopass.

Rossi didn't abort his lap going into the last corner either, which you seem to be suggesting MM should have done.

I already said I didn't have a problem with MM's lap. But, I wasn't going to let the opportunity to point out hypocrisy on display by some (including you) on this forum pass me by.
 
I already said I didn't have a problem with MM's lap. But, I wasn't going to let the opportunity to point out hypocrisy on display by some (including you) on this forum pass me by.

Hypocrisy based on a reaction by me you have invented, to something that is entirely hypothetical, and is very unlikely ever to occur; as I have said no-one is catching MM by a second on a live lap that close to the end of practice, he is a master of the banzai qualifying lap and expert in not positioning himself as Rossi was in relation to Pol, if he had an off to slow him down would be obliged not to be on the racing line, and if Rossi was somehow teleported into an identical situation I strongly doubt that he would contemplate, or more to the point pull off, such a move.
 
You think Marc was going to admit to purposely getting into Rossi's slipstream because he knew he needed assistance to beat Lorenzo's time?

Lorenzo set his times without any slipstream, he was the best rider in Q2.

I was hoping you would say this. MM made up a total of roughly 7 tenths across sectors 2 thru 4. The straights aren't long enough to make up that kind of time. Of we were talking mugello's straights that's another story. MM is gaining the Lion's share of time under braking and through the corners. The Honda has acceleration issues and by the time you get to a point where the slipstream effect is really pulling the rider along they are braking again.
 
Hypocrisy based on a reaction by me you have invented, to something that is entirely hypothetical, and is very unlikely ever to occur; as I have said no-one is catching MM by a second on a live lap that close to the end of practice, he is a master of the banzai qualifying lap and expert in not positioning himself as Rossi was in relation to Pol, if he had an off to slow him down would be obliged not to be on the racing line, and if Rossi was somehow teleported into an identical situation I strongly doubt that he would contemplate, or more to the point pull off, such a move.

Rossi was being held up by Pol, but he chose not to impact Pol's ability to set his best qualifying time.
 
I was hoping you would say this. MM made up a total of roughly 7 tenths across sectors 2 thru 4. The straights aren't long enough to make up that kind of time. Of we were talking mugello's straights that's another story. MM is gaining the Lion's share of time under braking and through the corners. The Honda has acceleration issues and by the time you get to a point where the slipstream effect is really pulling the rider along they are braking again.

JPS, I was trying to tell you back at Mugello that Rossi was gaining his time on Vinales entirely under braking! The helicopter view showed Rossi taking meters out of Vinales in every braking zone. You dismissed this because "well Rossi was benefiting from using Vinales as a reference". Rossi benefitted from slipstreaming Vinales on the final straight, but he caught Vinales by out-braking him.

MM benefited from being able to slipstream Rossi in the final uphill sector.
 
JPS, I was trying to tell you back at Mugello that Rossi was gaining his time on Vinales entirely under braking! The helicopter view showed Rossi taking meters out of Vinales in every braking zone. You dismissed this because "well Rossi was benefiting from using Vinales as a reference". Rossi benefitted from slipstreaming Vinales on the final straight, but he caught Vinales by out-braking him.

MM benefited from being able to slipstream Rossi in the final uphill sector.

They were working in tandem at Mugello and Suzuki knew it along with everyone else not suffering from myopia.
 
I saw it as a combination of that and that he simply wasn't quick enough to get past.

Someone said Colin Edwards did it once, but I can't say I recall anyone making such a pass on a pole lap, the supposition being that having to make a pass would ruin the lap. If someone said he ruthlessly took a chance that was available to him, I wouldn't necessarily argue, but he seemed to be in control and to pull it off safely, and that he would be obliged to abort his lap so as not to affect riders whom he is aiming to beat for pole and are not very competitive with him is one of the stranger arguments I have heard.
 
Someone said Colin Edwards did it once, but I can't say I recall anyone making such a pass on a pole lap, the supposition being that having to make a pass would ruin the lap. If someone said he ruthlessly took a chance that was available to him, I wouldn't necessarily argue, but he seemed to be in control and to pull it off safely, and that he would be obliged to abort his lap so as not to affect riders whom he is aiming to beat for pole and are not very competitive with him is one of the stranger arguments I have heard.

I thought it was a gutsy move on MM's part, and I thought the lap was lost when he came up on Valentino and Pol because I couldn't see a safe way past. My expectation was that he'd be right on the mark of JL's provisional pole lap at best. But to hack out 3 tenths in spite of running into traffic makes me wonder if he might have shaved another tenth or two off with a clear overtaking line. Of course, that he didn't abort the lap when many others would have is why MM is who he is. Pole while nice, may not much matter depending on how the weather plays out. It's looking like the high temperature in the afternoon will be 68F, and it may be dry. Morning and evening have rain in the forecast. The race is far from settled in MM's favor. Anyone near the front will be in contention.
 

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