AMA Season Opener: Dayton 2011

mylexicon · Mar 14, 2011

L8Braker said:
Going to catch a lot of .... for this, but here goes. Why is the AMA still racing at Daytona? I know about tradition and all that stuff, but really, Daytona. My oldest son who loves to watch road racing even said Dad this is boring, and I kind of agreed with him.

And the Daytona 200 winner? Hmmm...how can I sum this up? You bang a whore, you loose the kingdom.

Boring? I feel like I need to say a little prayer every lap in case it actually helps keep the competitors alive. No matter what they do, the competitors are always finding new ways to have near-death experiences. They repaved the track which should have made things a lot less dangerous, but there were 3 crashes at over 150mph on the banking. The safety car was supposed to make things safer in 2009, but some of the competitors ended up rear-ending the riders who were directly behind the safety vehicle.

If they need to stop racing at Daytona, it's b/c the place is a death trap in it's current configuration. I love the 3.5 mile config, but I always forget how dangerous it is. The long run on the banking from the bus stop to Turn 1 is too dangerous to run 50 bikes for over 200 miles. If they had an infield section that dumped the riders onto the tri-oval kink, it would probably be a lot safer. Most of the problems seem to happen after the bus stop on the run to the line.

povol · Mar 14, 2011

Jumkie said:
I was wondering the same thing about OTT. But I have a feeling Speed ch. probably put pressure on AMA to can them, cuz they want all the coverage or lack there of.

Anyway, hey guys check out this vid of Benny's crash in SS race 2. I'm not a religious man by any stretch, but man, that looks like divine intervention if I ever did see it: LINK

Thats twice in a week you have made reference to God. HMMM

Is it my imagination, but is there an ambulance and a car sitting on the outside of a right hand turn. I dont see any barriers between them and the track

mylexicon · Mar 14, 2011

BTW, did anyone notice that Blake Young had a double at Daytona and he's won the last 3 AMA SBK races. I've never really given Young a lot of credit, but he's only 23. If he wins this year or in the next couple of years, his career path will be similar to a lot of the AMA SBK greats.

Jumkie · Mar 14, 2011

Herrin blames Wesby for his own elbow and what the video shows was him running down on Wesby.

Westby was down on my left, and there was a lapper directly in front of him that he was drafting, and I was on the right of him, and as soon as he got to the lapper, he looked up at me, and then just came up on me, and we hit. Herrin LINK

Pov, that crash is insane. You can call it very lucky if you like.

Lex, I've had my eye on Blake, and not surprised. He reminds me of Nicky, very hungry and determined. he had some bad crashes last year, but he's learning that won't win any titles. I think he is the clear favorite this year.

JohnnyKnockdown · Mar 14, 2011

I watched that crash a few times. I initially thought Herrin pushed down on Westby. If you watch the slo mo it certain looks that way but look closer at speed and Herrin is pushed up and corrects himself(perhaps over corrects). Remember he's on a banking at speed and a correction on a flat surface is much different than on a banking. His overcorrection causes the chain reaction but I think the initial move by Westby was the catalyst.

.... they were running 4 wide on a banking at 170 mph. I'm just amazed this doesn't happen more often. I wouldn't really point fingers on this one because its not as if someone was pulling a suspect move. It was defo just a racing incident

Keshav · Mar 15, 2011

JohnnyKnockdown said:
I watched that crash a few times. I initially thought Herrin pushed down on Westby. If you watch the slo mo it certain looks that way but look closer at speed and Herrin is pushed up and corrects himself(perhaps over corrects). Remember he's on a banking at speed and a correction on a flat surface is much different than on a banking. His overcorrection causes the chain reaction but I think the initial move by Westby was the catalyst.

.... they were running 4 wide on a banking at 170 mph. I'm just amazed this doesn't happen more often. I wouldn't really point fingers on this one because its not as if someone was pulling a suspect move. It was defo just a racing incident

Four wide on the banking has got to create some very weird turbulence patterns for bikes - not a draft

I'd want to be in.

Jumkie · Mar 15, 2011

JohnnyKnockdown said:
I wouldn't really point fingers on this one because its not as if someone was pulling a suspect move. It was defo just a racing incident

Yeah bro, I agree it was a racing incident. But with the caveat that Herrin seems to make a point it was a bit intentional (sounds like it from his tone on the interview), since he calls Wesby an ..... and says he tried to run him off the track before going onto the banking. Then says he had his elbows out because of a lapper coming up while Westby was trying to get into his draft. If you look at the video I posted, in the last seconds, you see Herrin make a rather dramatic move toward Westby, perhaps to bump to get his attention but with no intention that he crash. Anyway, I'd agree, its a racing incident but with a bit of payback. However, let me put it this way, I'm starting to dislike Herrin.

Jumkie · Mar 15, 2011

Keshav said:
Four wide on the banking has got to create some very weird turbulence patterns for bikes - not a draft

I'd want to be in.

Agree, and like JK said, perhaps a bit of reaction. However, go to minute 3:04 on this VIDEO, it appears that Herrin makes rather dramatic move toward Westby, and part of that may be because he was trying to come out of JDBeach's (green bike) draft. I think: 1. Herrin was aware Wesby was next to him, 2. He knew he had to get out of Beach's draft to avoid running into him, 3. Herrin wanted to get down on the low end to make a run at the win, 4. Westby was in the space that he needed to be in to make that run, 5. Knowing he had his elbows out, he came very close and caused the tap (with perhaps the intention to simply run lower for the win but no intention to cause a crash BUT having his elbows out was a defensive position just in case).

Anyway, I don't think it was malice (though a hint of payback since he does mention Westby almost took him out in turns prior) but simply trying to make a run for the win, where Wesby was in the space he wanted to be in.

Sidenote: I told some people this week I would start designing a lever guard. Looks like somebody beat me to it. LINK

SuperShinya56 · Mar 15, 2011

Only in America would you see Motorcycle's running on ovals. 200 mph on a motorcycle, on a banking oval..... what a smashing idea folks !! Why haven't I thought of that. What a freakin joke this is, do they not see the danger involved in this? Are they waiting for something horrific to happen to these riders in order to be more stringent on their safety rules? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what would happen if a rider should lose his bike gover 200mph on the banking.... SAFER barrier or not, you're ... is turning into ground meat if anything should happen, be it tire failure, mechanical issue, oil on the track, or rider contact.

Stupid America with their lack of racing facilities. American tracks are such a freakin' joke that they have to resort to racing on an oval. Even for a huge event such as MotoGP. How embarrassing to say the least.

Keshav · Mar 15, 2011

Jumkie said:
Agree, and like JK said, perhaps a bit of reaction. However, go to minute 3:04 on this VIDEO, it appears that Herrin makes rather dramatic move toward Westby, and part of that may be because he was trying to come out of JDBeach's (green bike) draft. I think: 1. Herrin was aware Wesby was next to him, 2. He knew he had to get out of Beach's draft to avoid running into him, 3. Herrin wanted to get down on the low end to make a run at the win, 4. Westby was in the space that he needed to be in to make that run, 5. Knowing he had his elbows out, he came very close and caused the tap (with perhaps the intention to simply run lower for the win but no intention to cause a crash BUT having his elbows out was a defensive position just in case).

Anyway, I don't think it was malice (though a hint of payback since he does mention Westby almost took him out in turns prior) but simply trying to make a run for the win, where Wesby was in the space he wanted to be in.

Sidenote: I told some people this week I would start designing a lever guard. Looks like somebody beat me to it. LINK

Doesn't mean you can't take the same design and put a little bend in it and say your design is the

new more aerodynamically superior version. Peeps do it all the time. The trick is - marketing it

before thirty other small manufacturers steal and improve on your version.

povol · Mar 15, 2011

SuperShinya56 said:
Only in America would you see Motorcycle's running on ovals. 200 mph on a motorcycle, on a banking oval..... what a smashing idea folks !! Why haven't I thought of that. What a freakin joke this is, do they not see the danger involved in this? Are they waiting for something horrific to happen to these riders in order to be more stringent on their safety rules? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what would happen if a rider should lose his bike gover 200mph on the banking.... SAFER barrier or not, you're ... is turning into ground meat if anything should happen, be it tire failure, mechanical issue, oil on the track, or rider contact.

Stupid America with their lack of racing facilities. American tracks are such a freakin' joke that they have to resort to racing on an oval. Even for a huge event such as MotoGP. How embarrassing to say the least.

Ask Ben Spies, he came of a bike at 190mph on the Daytona banking, and yes, he lost a lot of meat. The leathers protected him for about 2 seconds. Few tracks in America will meet WSBK or Moto GP standards, even some of the ones we hold dear, such as Road Atlanta, Mid Ohio,VIR, Barber[Its close]Etc:. Compared to European tracks, our safety measures are a joke.

JohnnyKnockdown · Mar 15, 2011

The aftermath of Knapps bike.

Mr. Shupe · Mar 15, 2011

Jumkie said:
Sidenote: I told some people this week I would start designing a lever guard. Looks like somebody beat me to it. LINK

Cool! Is there a risk the rider could grab the guard instead of the lever by mistake? Or are riders so well coordinated that this isn't likely?

Jumkie · Mar 15, 2011

JohnnyKnockdown said:
The aftermath of Knapps bike.

Great pics JK. But I must re-adjust my previous opinion. Not only do I think Herrin's elbow was intentional (which he admitted) but the BUMP as also INTENTIONAL. Check out this video, you get a better angle from the previous one. Here you see Herrin come into Westby twice. You can even see Herrin a bit animated, and you can detect Wesby actually move away from Herrin. Yet Herrin looks to insist on moving into Westby. LINK

I have no doubt he intended to BUMP Wesby, perhaps not thinking it might lead to a crash.

From his FB, he does admit to putting out the elbow, but his explanation is so they didn't get stuck. But I think he withheld admitting the BUMP was intentional too.

11545

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DIRTY. He may not only have Eslick on his ... this year, but Wesby (and Knapp if he can catch him) too.

JohnnyKnockdown · Mar 15, 2011

I was just rewatching and I came to the same conclusion. At the very end he does ... his elbow out

. I've watched him since he was a rookie and had high hopes that he would be something special. Each year he has managed to do something that made me question his race etiquette. After last year and how he has started out so far this year Im starting to get a bad taste in my mouth.

Jumkie · Mar 15, 2011

JohnnyKnockdown said:
I was just rewatching and I came to the same conclusion. At the very end he does ... his elbow out

. I've watched him since he was a rookie and had high hopes that he would be something special. Each year he has managed to do something that made me question his race etiquette. After last year and how he has started out so far this year Im starting to get a bad taste in my mouth.

Well bro, at least it should make for some great racing. I too saw some greatness in Herrin his rookie year. Remember when he hounded Hacking and Roger Lee in supersport? But he lost some cool points I think. But I guess he's got the rest of the season to make it up. So we will see.

Hey, bro, I saw you holding up the camera while Zemke came into his pit. Benny's dad was helping out with the pneumatic hoses too while you were busy holding up your camera to videotape the pitstop. They interviewed Zemke and Gregg "no HS diploma" White asks him how he felt about going back out with untested tires. He replied, "ah, they're tires, round black ones that say Dunlop, they'll be alright, other guys might think about it, but not me, I'm just thinking about winning." (cool ... mothafuker")

Tom · Mar 16, 2011

Jumkie said:
Sidenote: I told some people this week I would start designing a lever guard. Looks like somebody beat me to it. LINK

Toni Elias ran a guard on his front brake lever all last year

Jumkie · Mar 16, 2011

Tom said:
Toni Elias ran a guard on his front brake lever all last year

Thanks, I didn't know this. Do you have any pics?

Tom · Mar 16, 2011

Jumkie said:
Thanks, I didn't know this. Do you have any pics?

Not on me, but i'll have a look around. I'm sure i saw some reference to this recently, with whoever wrote it claiming the reason was that Elias didn't trust the other moto2 riders. Maybe if you look at some testing photos either him or the moto2 moriwaki team might still use them.

Jumkie · Mar 16, 2011

Well well well. Check this POLL out.

(btw, I voted Herrin).

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AMA Season Opener: Dayton 2011

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