2025 Silly Season

MdubSTYLIE said:

If you leave out their names and match resume to resume, Jorge losses 100 out of 100 times. Martin may have been the deserving one but Marc was the better choice. Deserving a job doesn't not trump being more qualified for the job.

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You sound like my former manager.

Has nothing to do with silly season, but I loved how red smoke was replacing yellow smoke this year at Mugello.

One of the biggest winners in all of these moves will be Mir. If I was Pramac thats who I'd sign. I say he ends up there or Gresini.

Saffa said:

They already have 4 factory bikes

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p4p1 said:

The article appears to be saying there will be 4 full factory Red Bull KTM bikes. Tech3 may or may not be part of their plans.

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Paul55 said:

Tech3 back to Yamaha

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KTM have already tried buying the last 2 remaining grid slots and have been rebuked. The only way they get a factory 2nd team is from another current team, and presently it looks like Tech3.

MdubSTYLIE said:

One of the biggest winners in all of these moves will be Mir. If I was Pramac thats who I'd sign. I say he ends up there or Gresini.

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I agree, I'd like to see him on a good bike again.

Maybe at worst he can swap with Vinales?

Keshav said:

It's already well established that Marquez is willing to work for less money than other top riders, because winning races is all that he cares about anymore. He already has enough $ for 10 lifetimes. ...., I could live off the proceeds of an auction of the wristwatches he's garnered from pole position wins.

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He also has a .... ton of personal sponsors, who are effectively paying his salary this yr.

MdubSTYLIE said:

I don't necessarily disagree that Ducati is ran by ......... but how have they miss treated Martin? They gave him factory support even though they chose another rider as their factory team. Enea was just as deserving at the time the decision was made. Now choosing a legend of the sport over him is another good decision by ducati. It’s unfortunate for Martin but they have not treated him bad. They continued and would have continued to support him. I understand he desire to move on over it but Ducati has been good to him.

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Sure, you make a very fair point with which I must perforce agree.

Bastianini was not an unfair choice over Martin at the time, and he had been given a full factory bike with apparent full factory support, a much higher level of support than a rider for a satellite team would have been given over most of the history of the sport, Ducati have made no promises to him as far as we know, and he has in fact made demands/ issued them with an ultimatum which they may not have enjoyed. If he had actually won the title for them last year he would have a stronger case but he didn’t.

As has been said MM was the one who gave up a lot of money, which sure he was in a financial position to do, but also bet his reputation on his ability to perform riding a year old bike he had never ridden for probably the lowliest satellite team in the Ducati hierarchy. Ducati see his telemetry, and Gigi knows the relativity of the GP23 and GP24 above pretty much all others. While MM probably does play the odd subtle “mind game” with opponents he actually doesn’t mouth off as Martín did particularly about an employer, and has mostly been circumspect in his comments about competitors off track, and particularly so this year.

Martin may actually have wanted too much money as well, Audi are on the record as saying they want to cut expenditure, and actually may be in a situation Honda have been in, gearing up for an F1 programme as well as funding the Ducati motogp endeavour.

Keshav said:

Think positive Mate. I suspect its just a matter of ironing out the sponsorship details.

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I am superstitious about sporting matters and do not wish to tempt the fate, being more invested in MM than I thought I was.

Paul55 said:

Tech3 back to Yamaha

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Yamaha re-engaging Tech3 makes sense in light of VR46 and Pramac declining. Plus, Herve is head of IRTA so if someone must lead by example, it's him.

If Tech 3 are running Yamaha's next year, and KTM will have 4 factory bikes, we are also assuming that Dorna have agreed to grid expansion. Is this is a precursor to 6 manufacturers in 2027?

MdubSTYLIE said:

I don't necessarily disagree that Ducati is ran by ......... but how have they miss treated Martin? They gave him factory support even though they chose another rider as their factory team. Enea was just as deserving at the time the decision was made. Now choosing a legend of the sport over him is another good decision by ducati. Its unfortunate for Martin but they have not treated him bad. They continued and would have continued to support him. I understand he desire to move on over it but Ducati has been good to him.

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I’ll believe you only if Ducati fully supports him until the end of the season and allows him to win the championship if he can without interfering.

MdubSTYLIE said:

If you leave out their names and match resume to resume, Jorge losses 100 out of 100 times. Martin may have been the deserving one but Marc was the better choice. Deserving a job doesn't not trump being more qualified for the job.

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True, but MotoGP competition is primarily a zero-sum game. Ducati can't win more championships per season by hiring Marquez, and since Marc is getting older and fighting through chronic injury, he can't wait for 2027 in another paddock. Marc is in check. Martin, on the other hand, has more potential upside and more potential danger for Ducati in MotoGP.

One area where Marc dominates Jorge is on the showroom floor. Marc makes sense if Ducati plan adorn him in swag, and put him all over the internet. If Ducati can turn Marquez' brand in their direction, they deprive Honda of their most important MotoGP champion since Doohan. If that is the end game, it means Ducati believe that Pecco has the competition under control. Marquez can certainly contribute, maybe even win a championship, but his main attraction would be executing a commercial strategy.

mylexicon said:

True, but MotoGP competition is primarily a zero-sum game. Ducati can't win more championships per season by hiring Marquez, and since Marc is getting older and fighting through chronic injury, he can't wait for 2027 in another paddock. Marc is in check. Martin, on the other hand, has more potential upside and more potential danger for Ducati in MotoGP.

One area where Marc dominates Jorge is on the showroom floor. Marc makes sense if Ducati plan adorn him in swag, and put him all over the internet. If Ducati can turn Marquez' brand in their direction, they deprive Honda of their most important MotoGP champion since Doohan. If that is the end game, it means Ducati believe that Pecco has the competition under control. Marquez can certainly contribute, maybe even win a championship, but his main attraction would be executing a commercial strategy.

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I love the term zero-sum game but rarely see an opportunity to use it. Well done. Taking Marc over Martin also takes Marc out of contention of winning a title against Ducati. Marc won this when he said Pramac was not an option.

If KTM want to put 4 bikes on the grid I think Liberty will intervene and allow them to do so. The brand conglomerate including Red Bull and KTM have a marketing footprint is just too big for Liberty to ignore.

MdubSTYLIE said:

One of the biggest winners in all of these moves will be Mir. If I was Pramac thats who I'd sign. I say he ends up there or Gresini.

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Would love to have Mir on a Ducati!

Mir plus Aldeguer.... Wow!

mylexicon said:

Yamaha re-engaging Tech3 makes sense in light of VR46 and Pramac declining. Plus, Herve is head of IRTA so if someone must lead by example, it's him.

If Tech 3 are running Yamaha's next year, and KTM will have 4 factory bikes, we are also assuming that Dorna have agreed to grid expansion. Is this is a precursor to 6 manufacturers in 2027?

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Not a chance Tech 3 go back to Yamaha.

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Not a chance Tech 3 go back to Yamaha.

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I don't think Dorna are looking to expand the grid, either, but strange things are happening. The 2025 silly season looks more like a business realignment, than a simple swapping of seats.

If Tech 3 to Yamaha is a real thing, I suppose an existing Ducati team could jump to KTM to avoid grid expansion. Maybe that's why Marc cannot stay at Gresini?

Speculation, even baseless speculation, could be warranted this silly season.

mylexicon said:

I don't think Dorna are looking to expand the grid, either, but strange things are happening. The 2025 silly season looks more like a business realignment, than a simple swapping of seats.

If Tech 3 to Yamaha is a real thing, I suppose an existing Ducati team could jump to KTM to avoid grid expansion. Maybe that's why Marc cannot stay at Gresini?

Speculation, even baseless speculation, could be warranted this silly season.

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Actually, Dorna has reserved a spot for a factory.

There have been discussions in the upper echelons of the biggest European brand, the Bayerische Motor Wercke.

Smaller engines, eco-fuels and Toprak guiding them towards the top spot in WSBK, plus a new top management that is friendly to the idea all seems to add up.

If Ducati, Aprilia and KTM can aim for the title, BMW must be itching as well.

They've said WSBK first, then MotoGP.
Well...

MdubSTYLIE said:

I love the term zero-sum game but rarely see an opportunity to use it. Well done. Taking Marc over Martin also takes Marc out of contention of winning a title against Ducati. Marc won this when he said Pramac was not an option.

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Gigi has repeatedly said this over the last 5 years. If you have an opportunity to prevent a rider like Marquez joining a rival, why wouldn't you?

Hollywood said:

If KTM want to put 4 bikes on the grid I think Liberty will intervene and allow them to do so. The brand conglomerate including Red Bull and KTM have a marketing footprint is just too big for Liberty to ignore.

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I agree, if they retain the name of the 2nd team (something like Tech 3 Red Bull KTM), then it technically isn't the same team and they can circemvent the post 2011 Honda rules.

mylexicon said:

I don't think Dorna are looking to expand the grid, either, but strange things are happening. The 2025 silly season looks more like a business realignment, than a simple swapping of seats.

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They have said as much, and for them the ideal number of bikes is 20.

mylexicon said:

If Tech 3 to Yamaha is a real thing, I suppose an existing Ducati team could jump to KTM to avoid grid expansion. Maybe that's why Marc cannot stay at Gresini?

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Gresini are the only 'out of sequence' team in this saga, they have a contract with Ducati for 2025, unlike Pramac and VR46.

mylexicon said:

Speculation, even baseless speculation, could be warranted this silly season.

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I think events of the past weekend make this doubly so.

Sennas_Caress said:

Actually, Dorna has reserved a spot for a factory.

There have been discussions in the upper echelons of the biggest European brand, the Bayerische Motor Wercke.

Smaller engines, eco-fuels and Toprak guiding them towards the top spot in WSBK, plus a new top management that is friendly to the idea all seems to add up.

If Ducati, Aprilia and KTM can aim for the title, BMW must be itching as well.

They've said WSBK first, then MotoGP.
Well...

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It has been discussed elsewhere, but I hope MotoGP is not pandering to a manufacturer based on the 'promise' of them joining. F1 courted VW for years and the current, expensive power units are arguably a direct result of that.

1 spot for a new manufacture is not enough to develop a bike for a prototype series, these days you need 4 bikes for development, data, and testing. When Ducati started putting 4 current spec factory bikes on the grid, is exactly when they became podium contenders week in and week out. The same can be said for KTM.

Hollywood said:

1 spot for a new manufacture is not enough to develop a bike for a prototype series, these days you need 4 bikes for development, data, and testing. When Ducati started putting 4 current spec factory bikes on the grid, is exactly when they became podium contenders week in and week out. The same can be said for KTM.

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I agree with you on that.

However, Ezpeleta has said in a presser that vacant spot left by Suzuki is reserved for a factory team.

He has also said that the ideal scenario is one factory working in tandem with one satellite team. In the same breath he also said that Dorna will not implement said line up, will not forced it upon the teams.

The new concessions do point in that direction though. Ducati can no longer have wildcards and have minimal testing.

Ideally one Ducati customer team would go with Yamaha, and the beemeers could tempt another, after a while.

With Yamaha offering Pramac cash plus bikes, I can send some none championship contenders switch from customers to bankrolled partners.