2021 Red Bull Grand Prix of the Americas - COTA

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JPSLotus said:
MM was sublime yesterday. Not an exciting race, but to get two race victories at a minimum after not knowing whether his career was finished or not a year ago is nothing short of impressive.

I didn't pick him to win because I thought the bumps on the track surface for the right-handers would be problematic, but he managed to handle them as well as could ever have been asked.

That being said, the Michelin tires are once again an embarrassment of a GP tire. I wonder what it would be like if riders could legitimately push the tire start to finish?

Joan Mir...world champion he is, but he needs to stop yapping that trap of his and open his eyes on the track a bit more than he currently has. Avoidable incidents that he keeps getting involved in. We get it, you're pissy that you had zero chance of defending your title. However, it might be time to start using your brain to a higher degree than appears to be what's passing for the norm right now.

FQ seems to have learned from last year on the other hand. He just needs to stay upright and keep the bike near the front to wrap this title up. It'll be well-deserved, he made the most of the early races, and has settled for the highest points scoring positions elsewhere. Best way to wrap the title up.
Click to expand...

FQ is riding great. My opinion is if Marc can do the same next year he will win the championship. He just needs to take what he can get. The race weekends he has the pace to push at the front he needs to go for it. The other races he needs to take what he can get which is still at lowest top 4 or 5. Thats better than Fabs low finishes. If it rains Fab struggles for a top 10. So I say a smart Marc is the favorite next year. Followed by Pecco. How many rounds did Pecco miss? 4? Plus a race or 2 to get back up to speed. I could easily calculate enough points to be leading the championship had that not happened.

Last point about Mir. Its embarrassing that he says the Suzuki needs to be used as a bumper car to pass because he doesn't have the acceleration to stay ahead any other way. Neither does the honda or yamaha. Think back to marc vs pecco at aragon. Marc needed to make the pass in the first few corners and pull away or the ducati was just going to blow his doors off in the back straight. Marc was smart enough to realize that. He tried and tried but at the end of the day took what he could get. Thats how it goes.
 
JPSLotus said:
MM was sublime yesterday. Not an exciting race, but to get two race victories at a minimum after not knowing whether his career was finished or not a year ago is nothing short of impressive.

I didn't pick him to win because I thought the bumps on the track surface for the right-handers would be problematic, but he managed to handle them as well as could ever have been asked.

That being said, the Michelin tires are once again an embarrassment of a GP tire. I wonder what it would be like if riders could legitimately push the tire start to finish?

Joan Mir...world champion he is, but he needs to stop yapping that trap of his and open his eyes on the track a bit more than he currently has. Avoidable incidents that he keeps getting involved in. We get it, you're pissy that you had zero chance of defending your title. However, it might be time to start using your brain to a higher degree than appears to be what's passing for the norm right now.

FQ seems to have learned from last year on the other hand. He just needs to stay upright and keep the bike near the front to wrap this title up. It'll be well-deserved, he made the most of the early races, and has settled for the highest points scoring positions elsewhere. Best way to wrap the title up.
Click to expand...

I agree about MM, this year continues to remind me of Mick Doohan’s year in 1993. Whether MM’s shoulder will hamper him more next year than Mick’s leg did in 1994 once he got things sorted and got back up to speed is where things may differ I guess. The status of MM’s right arm and whether the problem is entirely the shoulder or contributed to by continuing effects of the fracture following no off season training, and whether the shoulder can be improved by off season training +/- surgery are unclear, to me at least, at this point in time. FQ may be more formidable opposition than Mick had in 1994, not that Kevin Schwartz was not formidable in general, just not so much in 1994 on a 1994 Suzuki after preceding events.
 
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Well that was a pretty boring race, aside from the strategic aspect.

The track is an embarrassment and shouldn’t be on the calendar.
Hats off to the riders that there were not more crashes on those bumps.

Marquez is working around his injuries but I am afraid he has now crested. I don’t think we will see much more of the old Marquez in the future. Great performance on the day however.

As others have pointed out, Mir seems to have taken advantage of the situation last year, having played his cards just right to obtain the title. His lack of qualifying pace and inability to make headway during the race shows his limits this year. Perhaps the Suzuki is not helping. Rins appears to me to be the better rider though he is crashing more. Mir is steady but what good is that mid pack?

Fabio continues to improve all around. He and Yamaha need to up the level in the wet, they seem to have lucked out this weekend. He looked like he was pushing as much as he could while making sure to stay upright.

Miller’s seeming inability to make tires last points to some inherent lack of smoothness in riding, though I can’t see it. Perhaps Pecco is just all around smoother on the throttle, braking and turn in than his teammate. Basically, I guess he is just faster than Miller. Sometimes you have to go with the only conclusions that racing hands you, who is in front at the end. Pecco is strong, Ducati showing they made the right decision to put him on the factory team. As much as I want Zarco to succeed, it doesn’t seem to be in the cards. At 31 he is up against a wave of younger and superior talent. His time may have come and gone.

As Ben Spies pointed out in his quite cool interview, there are quite a few great riders coming up. Perhaps we are witnessing a period of change in the overall approach to being at the front of these races. Electronics, aerodynamics and who knows what other tools that are being used in the premier class have to be combined with good old fashioned race craft, skill and sometimes guile to come out on top. No different than it ever was, just more pieces in the puzzle.

Great season so far and it will be interesting to have Gardner and Fernandes in the mix next year!
 
Bern1 said:
Well that was a pretty boring race, aside from the strategic aspect.

The track is an embarrassment and shouldn’t be on the calendar.
Hats off to the riders that there were not more crashes on those bumps.

Marquez is working around his injuries but I am afraid he has now crested. I don’t think we will see much more of the old Marquez in the future. Great performance on the day however.

As others have pointed out, Mir seems to have taken advantage of the situation last year, having played his cards just right to obtain the title. His lack of qualifying pace and inability to make headway during the race shows his limits this year. Perhaps the Suzuki is not helping. Rins appears to me to be the better rider though he is crashing more. Mir is steady but what good is that mid pack?

Fabio continues to improve all around. He and Yamaha need to up the level in the wet, they seem to have lucked out this weekend. He looked like he was pushing as much as he could while making sure to stay upright.

Miller’s seeming inability to make tires last points to some inherent lack of smoothness in riding, though I can’t see it. Perhaps Pecco is just all around smoother on the throttle, braking and turn in than his teammate. Basically, I guess he is just faster than Miller. Sometimes you have to go with the only conclusions that racing hands you, who is in front at the end. Pecco is strong, Ducati showing they made the right decision to put him on the factory team. As much as I want Zarco to succeed, it doesn’t seem to be in the cards. At 31 he is up against a wave of younger and superior talent. His time may have come and gone.

As Ben Spies pointed out in his quite cool interview, there are quite a few great riders coming up. Perhaps we are witnessing a period of change in the overall approach to being at the front of these races. Electronics, aerodynamics and who knows what other tools that are being used in the premier class have to be combined with good old fashioned race craft, skill and sometimes guile to come out on top. No different than it ever was, just more pieces in the puzzle.

Great season so far and it will be interesting to have Gardner and Fernandes in the mix next year!
Click to expand...

I am a fan, but Jack not quite having it, particularly in comparison with Bagnaia on the same bike, is not a conclusion I dispute.
 
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Bern1 said:
Well that was a pretty boring race, aside from the strategic aspect.

The track is an embarrassment and shouldn’t be on the calendar.
Hats off to the riders that there were not more crashes on those bumps.

Marquez is working around his injuries but I am afraid he has now crested. I don’t think we will see much more of the old Marquez in the future. Great performance on the day however.

As others have pointed out, Mir seems to have taken advantage of the situation last year, having played his cards just right to obtain the title. His lack of qualifying pace and inability to make headway during the race shows his limits this year. Perhaps the Suzuki is not helping. Rins appears to me to be the better rider though he is crashing more. Mir is steady but what good is that mid pack?

Fabio continues to improve all around. He and Yamaha need to up the level in the wet, they seem to have lucked out this weekend. He looked like he was pushing as much as he could while making sure to stay upright.

Miller’s seeming inability to make tires last points to some inherent lack of smoothness in riding, though I can’t see it. Perhaps Pecco is just all around smoother on the throttle, braking and turn in than his teammate. Basically, I guess he is just faster than Miller. Sometimes you have to go with the only conclusions that racing hands you, who is in front at the end. Pecco is strong, Ducati showing they made the right decision to put him on the factory team. As much as I want Zarco to succeed, it doesn’t seem to be in the cards. At 31 he is up against a wave of younger and superior talent. His time may have come and gone.

As Ben Spies pointed out in his quite cool interview, there are quite a few great riders coming up. Perhaps we are witnessing a period of change in the overall approach to being at the front of these races. Electronics, aerodynamics and who knows what other tools that are being used in the premier class have to be combined with good old fashioned race craft, skill and sometimes guile to come out on top. No different than it ever was, just more pieces in the puzzle.

Great season so far and it will be interesting to have Gardner and Fernandes in the mix next year!
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced MM has crested to be fair to him. His left side is fine, and his right side has looked progressively better as the season has progressed, not necessarily enough to be winning races just yet. His upcoming off-season is going to be the real challenge. If he can go back to 100% workouts on all areas of his body, I think he is going to come screaming out of the gate in 2022. I recall reading an Oxley article a few weeks/months back where he talked about how MM adapts to the wearing tire during a grand prix, and it's really nothing short of remarkable in that he is constantly adjusting lines based on how the tire is wearing, but he's doing it before a drop-off in performance happens. I don't think anyone else on the grid right now has that kind of ability to discern the tire wear that they can begin adapting before the wear has set in.

I echo Michael in that there are many similarities between 2021 MM and 1993 MD. I don't know if MM will capture the title next season, but if he were to, I wouldn't be surprised. We know the will to win has never been missing from his arsenal. While I am not a betting man, I expect him to be in the mix for next year's title. The right arm may be a lingering problem, but I think he'll be able to compensate enough that he can win on all manner of circuits.
 
Gaz said:
Another view of Mir/Miller - very short but filmed by a spectator and to me, it shows that no matter what Mir says, Miller was his berm

https://imgur.com/a/JwdEvgo
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this.

I don't know if I am being unfair, but I think Mir is going to go down as the worst premier class champion in the sport's history. I mean he had to do the things he did to win the title, but it wasn't exactly like he stamped his name all over everything decisively. It took FQ not holding up to the pressure to open the door for him. Still had to do the work, but considering how he's ridden and behaved this year, it was a one-off fluke.
 
JPSLotus said:
Thanks for posting this.

I don't know if I am being unfair, but I think Mir is going to go down as the worst premier class champion in the sport's history. I mean he had to do the things he did to win the title, but it wasn't exactly like he stamped his name all over everything decisively. It took FQ not holding up to the pressure to open the door for him. Still had to do the work, but considering how he's ridden and behaved this year, it was a one-off fluke.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by worst?

You mean not doing more to win and defend the title. I ask cause he is 3rd in the title race though wont win it again in 2021, he has done what he could so far on that Suzuki.

If we were thinking of worst defending champions then i'd think the 2007, 2001 and 2000 previous years defending champions are better candidates for the worst in the sports history.

OH....and boring race at a .... track....
 
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JPSLotus said:
I'm not convinced MM has crested to be fair to him. His left side is fine, and his right side has looked progressively better as the season has progressed, not necessarily enough to be winning races just yet. His upcoming off-season is going to be the real challenge. If he can go back to 100% workouts on all areas of his body, I think he is going to come screaming out of the gate in 2022. I recall reading an Oxley article a few weeks/months back where he talked about how MM adapts to the wearing tire during a grand prix, and it's really nothing short of remarkable in that he is constantly adjusting lines based on how the tire is wearing, but he's doing it before a drop-off in performance happens. I don't think anyone else on the grid right now has that kind of ability to discern the tire wear that they can begin adapting before the wear has set in.

I echo Michael in that there are many similarities between 2021 MM and 1993 MD. I don't know if MM will capture the title next season, but if he were to, I wouldn't be surprised. We know the will to win has never been missing from his arsenal. While I am not a betting man, I expect him to be in the mix for next year's title. The right arm may be a lingering problem, but I think he'll be able to compensate enough that he can win on all manner of circuits.
Click to expand...

I am quite willing and would be happy to be proven wrong on the subject of MM returning to the top. I hope you are correct in your assessment. If he does it will also make all the up and comers stay on their game, if any of them need additional encouragement. Every new rider in the premier class really has only a short period of time to make an impression. I have the feeling the revolving door is starting to spin more quickly.

Interesting assessment of MM’s tire adaptation. I stopped reading Oxley when he jumped on the yellow bandwagon. Seems like he may have jumped ship. It’s been sinking for a while now anyway.
 
Bern1 said:
I am quite willing and would be happy to be proven wrong on the subject of MM returning to the top. I hope you are correct in your assessment. If he does it will also make all the up and comers stay on their game, if any of them need additional encouragement. Every new rider in the premier class really has only a short period of time to make an impression. I have the feeling the revolving door is starting to spin more quickly.

Interesting assessment of MM’s tire adaptation. I stopped reading Oxley when he jumped on the yellow bandwagon. Seems like he may have jumped ship. It’s been sinking for a while now anyway.
Click to expand...

I’d love to see Schmarquez win a 10th and then, GTF out while he still has his health and dignity. Reality is, very few other than Stoner are able to walk away while at the top of their game. Addiction to the adrenalin circus and all that.
 
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Bern1 said:
I am quite willing and would be happy to be proven wrong on the subject of MM returning to the top. I hope you are correct in your assessment. If he does it will also make all the up and comers stay on their game, if any of them need additional encouragement. Every new rider in the premier class really has only a short period of time to make an impression. I have the feeling the revolving door is starting to spin more quickly.

Interesting assessment of MM’s tire adaptation. I stopped reading Oxley when he jumped on the yellow bandwagon. Seems like he may have jumped ship. It’s been sinking for a while now anyway.
Click to expand...


Any chance Bastianinni gets a seat (Zarco's?) with Pramac?
 
Zarco’s time is running short.

The way I see it, after a couple of years in the premier class if rider has not won a race with a bike that others can win on, why would a team and/or sponsor want to continue the association?

The brutality of the fairly brief shelf life of the modern athlete who cannot deliver the prize.
 
Bern1 said:
Zarco’s time is running short.

The way I see it, after a couple of years in the premier class if rider has not won a race with a bike that others can win on, why would a team and/or sponsor want to continue the association?

The brutality of the fairly brief shelf life of the modern athlete who cannot deliver the prize.
Click to expand...

Besides, there is already one very promising Frenchman in the series. Typically, there will be one Frenchman, one Japanese, a smattering of Italians and a thundering herd of Spaniards.
 
PRS717 said:
Any chance Bastianinni gets a seat (Zarco's?) with Pramac?
Click to expand...

I have to think that is a real possibility. His age isn't on his side and I would have to think there is probably more upside with Bastianini being only 23 rather than 31.
 
Bern1 said:
I am quite willing and would be happy to be proven wrong on the subject of MM returning to the top. I hope you are correct in your assessment. If he does it will also make all the up and comers stay on their game, if any of them need additional encouragement. Every new rider in the premier class really has only a short period of time to make an impression. I have the feeling the revolving door is starting to spin more quickly.



Interesting assessment of MM’s tire adaptation. I stopped reading Oxley when he jumped on the yellow bandwagon. Seems like he may have jumped ship. It’s been sinking for a while now anyway.
Click to expand...
I reckon he has a good chance of getting back to the top in terms of winning another championship.
If the bike improves and the shoulder gets stronger

I don't see him dominating as he has previously though.
He isn't going to be able to continue crashing the front so often but staying on board.
His body isn't going to manage that it doesn't appear and just too much risk.
Bloody hell it was amazing to watch though 8)
 
I already said this but I think Marc will win the title next year if big if he can keep the bike rubber side down. Marc's worst races are better than Fabio and Pecco's. When Marc has a bad race he still takes top 5. Fabio and pecco are closer to 10th on a bad day. So if Marc can be smart the title is his. As for Pecco he'd most likely be leading points had he not been injured. So I say its between Marc and Pecco next year. Fabio will need to step it up next season.
 
Keshav said:
I’d love to see Schmarquez win a 10th and then, GTF out while he still has his health and dignity. Reality is, very few other than Stoner are able to walk away while at the top of their game. Addiction to the adrenalin circus and all that.
Click to expand...

I've said it on here many times since 2015. I believe Marc's goal is to get 10 titles then get out. He may be lured by the Ducati challenge but who knows, I think his primary goal is to beat Rossi's record.

Bern1 said:
Zarco’s time is running short.

The way I see it, after a couple of years in the premier class if rider has not won a race with a bike that others can win on, why would a team and/or sponsor want to continue the association?

The brutality of the fairly brief shelf life of the modern athlete who cannot deliver the prize.
Click to expand...

He is also already one of the older riders in the class (31).
 

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