2021 Red Bull Grand Prix of the Americas - COTA

Gaz said:

Yeah I agree on the Rossi/Gibbers and the others being a stuff up of out-braking potential but they were the closes I could come up with from memory (and all involved either rivalry - first 2, or red mist with Stoner who had a bad weekend) where Mir is consistent.

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Simoncelli rest his soul did the double apex pass all the time. Sometimes he made it work sometimes he rubbed Jlo's paint off.

Deniz CanOjuce is banned from the next 2 rounds for that train wreck he caused. Thank goodness the three affected riders walked away unhurt.

evo9 said:

Deniz CanOjuce is banned from the next 2 rounds for that train wreck he caused. Thank goodness the three affected riders walked away unhurt.

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Indeed. That was some scary stuff.

evo9 said:

Deniz CanOjuce is banned from the next 2 rounds for that train wreck he caused. Thank goodness the three affected riders walked away unhurt.

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For those that did not see it - he took the front wheel.

2 races is light (IMO) but fair given other recent penalties - this could have been extremely catastrophic

Separate note -good to see Jack playing the team game.

Pecco has called it out as well, so while people can be critical of results, I suspect after recent teams at Ducati, it makes a nice change to have riders genuinely working for the team good

Great weekend... Got lots of footage to sift through... It was awesome meeting up with fellow motogpforum members and hardcore race fans! The Ducati package was money well spent, but the question remains… will MotoGP return to CoTA after all of the rider safety complaints?? Considering VIP next year… but until then, looking forward to F1 USGP later this month!

Here is the full video from this year's Ducati Parade Lap... Enjoy

Haven't seen the race yet. Hopefully the race is recorded at home though.

Gaz said:

Separate note -good to see Jack playing the team game.

Pecco has called it out as well, so while people can be critical of results, I suspect after recent teams at Ducati, it makes a nice change to have riders genuinely working for the team good

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Do we want team orders to become the norm though?
I'm not so sure and Ducati is making it a habit from quite early in the season over the last few years.

Gaz said:

Yeah I agree on the Rossi/Gibbers and the others being a stuff up of out-braking potential but they were the closes I could come up with from memory (and all involved either rivalry - first 2, or red mist with Stoner who had a bad weekend) where Mir is consistent.

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I agree with your original choices in regard to both Rossi on Gibernau and MM on Lorenzo, they weren't failed feasible moves, neither was going to end up anywhere near the racing line, and probably not on the track without using the opponent as a berm. From a less clear memory MM's attempted last lap pass on Rossi when Rossi outsmarted him and they both ended up off the track which was in Rossi's favour was similar. Stoner's pass was more to my memory just a very crude pass and quite hypocritical given his previous fairly long term stance and criticism of others, on a bad weekend for him as you say.

I pretty much supported Mir for the title last year given he was riding a Suzuki, but he is now pretty much revealed as a ........ and I doubt he will end up in the higher echelon of winners of one title, a status I expect him to retain. If he can only pass illegally that is his problem and no-one else's as has been said, and as would apply to any other rider. Did anyone put a gun to his head and say they would shoot him if he rode anything other than a Suzuki ?. You pays your money and you takes your choice as the Americans say.

p4p1 said:

Do we want team orders to become the norm though?
I'm not so sure and Ducati is making it a habit from quite early in the season over the last few years.

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No we don't, or not to me in very clear way that influences the result (ie. team #1 and #2 riders) as we have had in years past.

But, I don't see any real issue at this stage of the season with trying to::-

a. Help your team-mate who is in a better position that you in the title provided that help does not involve taking opposition out of races (slowing them, making it hard to pass you etc all within rules - ok)

b. Helps your team achieve the constructor or team title.

To me, when Miller said he would help was the right time as while mathematically he had a chance it needed a lot of riders to fail to finish a lot of races.

What will be interesting is in the next few races as if Pecco cannot catch Quartararo, will he then allow Miller past in an effort to assure Miller a high championship finish position?

michaelm said:

I agree with your original choices in regard to both Rossi on Gibernau and MM on Lorenzo, they weren't failed feasible moves, neither was going to end up anywhere near the racing line, and probably not on the track without using the opponent as a berm. From a less clear memory MM's attempted last lap pass on Rossi when Rossi outsmarted him and they both ended up off the track which was in Rossi's favour was similar. Stoner's pass was more to my memory just a very crude pass and quite hypocritical given his previous fairly long term stance and criticism of others, on a bad weekend for him as you say.

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The Stoner one sticks in my mind as it is one of the very few times he clearly used someone as a berm in a race in the top class as by nature he was a relatively clean rider, allowing room where needed and not riding people off the track.

From memory only but in the race he had a bad start, got belted by others (not Bautista) and had red mist - he may even have said as much after the race.

michaelm said:

I pretty much supported Mir for the title last year given he was riding a Suzuki, but he is now pretty much revealed as a ........ and I doubt he will end up in the higher echelon of winners of one title, a status I expect him to retain. If he can only pass illegally that is his problem and no-one else's as has been said, and as would apply to any other rider. Did anyone put a gun to his head and say they would shoot him if he rode anything other than a Suzuki ?. You pays your money and you takes your choice as the Americans say.

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Interesting is for me that Rins has not had the level or amount of contact as has Mir this year and when you then read the comments from him throughout the year, I tend to agree that he is showing a level of being a ........, or from my view there seems a air of entitlement in his mind.

He has been critical of a few riders but then performs similar actions himself.

Perhaps the pressure of the World Title has gotten to him as his defence has not gone well if you consider not being truly in the title race as not going well - many riders would say 3rd is still damn good.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/989110/1/seventh-heaven-marquez-after-perfect-sunday-texas

Read this and am happy he was able to chill a bit in the first few laps before upping the pace.
Obviously in front after a good start so that would have made it easier.
Needs to do it more often anyway.

That shoulder does not sound good though.
I don't know much about shoulder injuries and how likely it is to improve?
He is talking about adapting to the loss of strength and trying to ride around it by changing his approach to R handers.

Anyway, the series is set to record at home so hopefully I get to watch it on thurs night

Yeah Mir is a bit entitled or is coming across as so.

He clearly is better than Rins but there are a few riders on other bikes that are better than him.

Miller grabbing the helmet shows he was steamed.
Not sure I agree with it but yeah that pass was crap.

warthog1 said:

Yeah Mir is a bit entitled or is coming across as so.

He clearly is better than Rins but there are a few riders on other bikes that are better than him.

Miller grabbing the helmet shows he was steamed.
Not sure I agree with it but yeah that pass was crap.

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I suspect the fact it was the 3rd or 4th time Mir has instigated contact with Miller this year and has then taken advantage to pass him that was behind a serious level of the steam.

Couple this with that it happened last race as well (no contact but serious push wide) and in both cases it has cost Miller positions, yeah I would be a bit p*ssed if I was Miller.

The good sign however to me is that the stewards acted and gave Mir a penalty, but is one place enough and how will that go in future or do they now have the line in the sand?

Time will tell but punishing the reckless that has an impact is good to see as Miller has not just lost 1 but 2 positions across the line and that means championship points for team as well.

Yeah I get there is history.
Just don't watch to see riders getting physically confrontational with each other. I am sure Miller could prob punch the snot out of Mir if it came to it but not interested in that personally.
Happy to see hard but fair racing.
Yes that pass wasn't fair.
Not sure how to deal with it but a physical confrontation aint it imo.

Agree I am happy to see Mir penalised. That is a much better way to sort it I hope

warthog1 said:

Yeah I get there is history.
Just don't watch to see riders getting physically confrontational with each other. I am sure Miller could prob punch the snot out of Mir if it came to it but not interested in that personally.
Happy to see hard but fair racing.
Yes that pass wasn't fair.
Not sure how to deal with it but a physical confrontation aint it imo.

Agree I am happy to see Mir penalised. That is a much better way to sort it I hope

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It was said that Mir waited and in reading Mir's comments I did like how he expressed that 'Jack spoke in an Australian way = from here - https://the-race.com/motogp/motogp-rivals-miller-and-mir-at-odds-again-despite-apology/



“First of all I want apologise because I don’t like to create contact with overtakes,” he did concede. “This is the first thing. I was struggling a lot to accelerate and I wasn’t able to overtake and he was just a lot slower than me. I had to wait on the last laps to prepare something. I did a great manoeuvre in sector one, in the chicanes, and I was able to overtake him in a really good way – then we arrived to the straight and he overtook me and just gave me a couple of tenths.

“He was just closing the lines, he wasn’t caring about riding [fast], he was almost straight inside the corners, he was closing the lines and it was a little strange. Then in Turn 16, it’s a good corner to overtake. I took the inside and he, in the second part of the braking, made a really tight line that I didn’t expect. I touched the kerb to avoid the impact, then I touched him a bit and luckily we didn’t crash.”

And despite their angry encounter on the slowing-down lap, Mir insisted that there’s no bad blood with his Andorran neighbour, instead saying that had the coin been flipped, there’s every chance he’d have been just as angry.

“I stopped on the straight,” he chuckled, “and I was waiting on him to come and blame me, and he was threatening me and doing some things – but when you say things in this hot situation I can’t understand. I think Jack is a good guy, and if he was me I would be angry too so I don’t have anything to say about him.

“He was just saying ‘see you in the next one!’ or something like this. Australian-style! I’ve got completely nothing to say about Jack because he’s always respectful in the race. He’s always been a good rival, and I’m sorry for the manoeuvre, but I don’t respect the decision from race direction.”

warthog1 said:

Yeah I get there is history.
Just don't watch to see riders getting physically confrontational with each other. I am sure Miller could prob punch the snot out of Mir if it came to it but not interested in that personally.
Happy to see hard but fair racing.
Yes that pass wasn't fair.
Not sure how to deal with it but a physical confrontation aint it imo.

Agree I am happy to see Mir penalised. That is a much better way to sort it I hope

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Physical contact is never good, but was not employed the first 2 (probably 3) times and the question in an understandably peeved Jack’s mind may well have been how else do you give the guy the message, and is obviously better than retaliating on track. He has also dedicated himself for the rest of the season to helping Bagnaia’s admittedly rapidly diminishing chances for the riders’ title, and Ducati’s chances for the manufacturers’ title, which the unfair loss of 2 places may impact. Jack’s future is also on the line, hard to see how Ducati would want him over Martin down the line.

So he was in the wrong, but I don’t think there was any intention or risk of harm to Mir, particularly as opposed to what Mir has been doing on track, and he is a pretty straightforward guy who probably didn’t see much alternative to post race physical intimidation after so many repeated incidents. Better riders and more sophisticated people than him have done the same, cf Max vs Valentino.

michaelm said:

Physical contact is never good, but was not employed the first 2 (probably 3) times and the question in an understandably peeved Jack’s mind may well have been how else do you give the guy the message, and is obviously better than retaliating on track. He has also dedicated himself for the rest of the season to helping Bagnaia’s admittedly rapidly diminishing chances for the riders’ title, and Ducati’s chances for the manufacturers’ title, which the unfair loss of 2 places may impact. Jack’s future is also on the line, hard to see how Ducati would want him over Martin down the line.

So he was in the wrong, but I don’t think there was any intention or risk of harm to Mir, particularly as opposed to what Mir has been doing on track, and he is a pretty straightforward guy who probably didn’t see much alternative to post race physical intimidation after so many repeated incidents. Better riders and more sophisticated people than him have done the same, cf Max vs Valentino.

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I am completely fine with Jacks behavior after the race. Maybe he shouldn't have grabbed Mirs helmet but it wasn't like he intended to harm him. As a racer its important to let other riders know you aren't going to take their ......... Otherwise you could end up being an easy target. They do it all the time when a rider is going slow during practice. Mir himself said he pulled over expecting Miller to confront him. Well then he got what he wanted. Mir has shown me who he is this season with his behavior and comments questioning Marc for following people ect. He is playing the verbal and track warfare card like another rider in blue and neon yellow did. He doesn't have the hoard of mindless followers though. His best has come. He will never match last season. The doctor and the nurse.

Great job by Marquez. I was confident he was going to win based on his dominance right out the bat in FP1. Fabio keeping his head much more then 2020 and deserves the title, Pecco was a disappointment.

Mir trying to maim Miller again. I'm not a Jack fan but don't blame him for being pissed off.

MM was sublime yesterday. Not an exciting race, but to get two race victories at a minimum after not knowing whether his career was finished or not a year ago is nothing short of impressive.

I didn't pick him to win because I thought the bumps on the track surface for the right-handers would be problematic, but he managed to handle them as well as could ever have been asked.

That being said, the Michelin tires are once again an embarrassment of a GP tire. I wonder what it would be like if riders could legitimately push the tire start to finish?

Joan Mir...world champion he is, but he needs to stop yapping that trap of his and open his eyes on the track a bit more than he currently has. Avoidable incidents that he keeps getting involved in. We get it, you're pissy that you had zero chance of defending your title. However, it might be time to start using your brain to a higher degree than appears to be what's passing for the norm right now.

FQ seems to have learned from last year on the other hand. He just needs to stay upright and keep the bike near the front to wrap this title up. It'll be well-deserved, he made the most of the early races, and has settled for the highest points scoring positions elsewhere. Best way to wrap the title up.