2020 myWorld Motorrad Grand Prix von Österreich

michaelm said:

I am hardly Rossi‘S biggest fan, but I think he is entitled to a gripe in this instance, particularly since his gripe correctly imo partly concerned the intrinsic danger of the corner, and he did also show balls of adamantium/titanium/whatever to go back out and ride a competitive race after the re-start. I struggle to think of an incident precipitated by him as potentially dangerous as this one in his career, which doesn’t apply to riders I favour far more than him including MM and even Stoner, the latter learning from the pile up due to his riding error in 2006 however. I am leaning to the view it was too dangerous to make the pass Zarco made at that point on the track, definitely so if Morbidelli had no bail out option. If he was trying an immediate re-pass at an even later point then Morbidelli also made a contributory error of judgement however imo, I am not sure Zarco was in a position to take any alternative line.

In general though Rossi, and MM, seem to be of the view that rules are for other people, and have taken advantage of the propensity of other more principled riders not to wish to be involved in collisions. Rossi complains about hard moves by others which MM basically doesn’t though. I would love to have seen Rossi attempt some of his admittedly rare more controversial moves on the likes of Mick Doohan rather than Gibernau or Stoner.

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misfit said:

VR is a 7 time champ with a long career and experience. MV isn't. One has a driver academy with one of his graduates involved in a huge shunt that miraculously left no one seriously injured or dead. He is currently instructing/advising upcoming riders. This makes him very different from MV. He will feel inclined to comment on a lot of issues and the press will understandably approach him for his opinion as they now do with Dovi. I am not at all surprised Rossi had something to say about it and would have been disappointed actually, if he didn't. Some riders, and dare I say, most, will likely choose to be neutral about it knowing the potential consequence of not doing so. IOW's, they would rather not get publicly involved since it often then becomes political. Rossi will not, since he's in a position not to be and has experience with dealing with the consequence of taking an unpopular position. We have read Morbidelli's take on what happened.

VR repeatedly says he has no problem with aggressive riding and not surprisingly so since he himself is well known for his aggressive tactics. However, he speaks of a line, that if crossed, will lead to serious danger to other riders. So I understand him fully in that there should be respect for the safety and lives of the other riders while this doesn't negate aggression completely.

You see exactly what Rossi refers to when JLo engages Rossi and especially MM on track. JLo becomes distinctly more aggressive in his riding since if he doesn't, he will not win. However, like VR and MM, he's aware of where the line is and where his aggression inappropriately placed can lead to shunts with serious consequences. Aggression that is not only tempered by awareness but also skill. As we've seen over the years and are witnessing now, there is the occasional rider who's bravery isn't tamed by this awareness and his skill.

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misfit said:

VR never complain when another rider is aggressive with them and a crash doesn't result.

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p4p1 said:

https://www.mcnews.com.au/mick-dooh...h0S8kLdCK-Ndx-W-hcQ8au1nGrOkuW3XFoh-99SglgOWA

Good read from Doohan. He does seem to echo a bit of Misfits comments about Valentino. Though again my issue is the hypocrisy of it.

He talks about Dovi's title chances, Yamahas bike and also Marc and the Honda. Interesting compares him to Wayne Gardiner, says they both liked to go quick and that's what he is worried about which does sound very close to Marquez reportedly giving the same feedback as others on the bike but refusing to compromise ease of riding for speed.

I love it when Mick talks.

edit: also talks about Jack as well.

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michaelm said:

I am hardly Rossi‘s biggest fan, but I think he is entitled to a gripe in this instance, particularly since his gripe correctly imo partly concerned the intrinsic danger of the corner, and he did also show balls of adamantium/titanium/whatever to go back out and ride a competitive race after the re-start. I struggle to think of an incident precipitated by him as potentially dangerous as this one in his career, which doesn’t apply to riders I favour far more than him including MM and even Stoner, the latter learning from the pile up due to his riding error in 2006 however. I am leaning to the view it was too dangerous to make the pass Zarco made at that point on the track, definitely so if Morbidelli had no bail out option. If he was trying an immediate re-pass at an even later point then Morbidelli also made a contributory error of judgement however imo, I am not sure Zarco was in a position to take any alternative line.

In general though Rossi, and MM, seem to be of the view that rules are for other people, and have taken advantage of the propensity of other more principled riders not to wish to be involved in collisions. Rossi complains about hard moves by others which MM basically doesn’t though. I would love to have seen Rossi attempt some of his admittedly rare more controversial moves on the likes of Mick Doohan rather than Gibernau or Stoner.

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Keshav said:

That in a nutshell, is for so many people, the thing so off-putting about Rossi, his sense of entitlement. Even if that entitlement is to certain fans an earned privilege, I think he's abused it. As to the small number of people injured by Rossi's questionable ethics as regards his hard passes, who's to say whether that's a result of the way he makes those passes or a result of the way those being passed used their racecraft to avoid more serious consequences? A good example of that would be Stoner's quick reactions to the ......... move Rossi pulled in the Corkscrew. That Stoner wasn't injured was not a reflection on Rossi's talent. The way Rossi has goes through life as if the rules don't apply to him and his quickness to ..... and moan when other riders give as well as they get, are the hallmarks of the archetypal bully; always the first to whine (or whinge as Brits have it) when their own tactics are used against them.

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michaelm said:

I think all of that is true in general, and was particularly relevant in 2015 when he seemed to feel winning the title was his due, but I think any rider, a 100 wins or none, 9 titles or none, aged 21 or 41 would have a similar pretty much visceral reaction to a bike flying by their head.

Otherwise the issue for me is whether he is correct about Morbidelli being completely the victim in the incident. I have formed the view that Zarco's pass was not on at that point in the track, and some are saying post race he wouldn't have made the corner anyway; this is rather at odds with alternative claims that he deliberately blocked Morbidelli's line with talk at the time that he should have left room for Morbidelli to re-pass him. I don't see how a re-pass was on either if Morbidelli was in fact trying same. I see in the recently posted Mick Doohan piece that Zarco and Morbdelli are fronting some sort of enquiry.

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Segfault said:

Zarco did not brake test Morbidelli. Everybody agrees on that. Rossi released video, this means he thinks it was Morbidellis fault and public opinion (and possibly stewards) needs to be "doctored". Logic tells it was Morbidelli who misjudged his own braking. Morbidelli said he was already on brakes when Zarco passed him. Come on, even considering drag from Zarco's bike the collision would have been impossible if Morbidelli was serious on brakes. More likely he saw Zarco pass, thought he himself is too hard on brakes and eased off, with intention to stay close to Zarco and attempt passing him in case Zarco leaves the door open in turn. In my armchair opinion it was Morbidelli's inexperience at speeds above 300 km/h which caused him to misjudge his braking.

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p4p1 said:

So in Brno, Pol runs wide, worries not who may be on the racing line when and crashes into Zarco. Zarco is punished, the rationale is that Pol was ever so slightly in front. Everyone but Freddie Spencer seems to disagree with the punishment.

Argentina 2015, Rossi cuts across Marquez’s line, Marquez crashes. No punishment because Rossi was in front, it’s the rider behinds responsibility because the rider in front could not know where the rider behind is on the track. Even if he did look over his shoulder.

In this incident Zarco is in front and runs wide, telemetry proves he did not brake check Morbidelli. Morbidelli runs right into the back off Zarco, setting of a series of chain reactions that could’ve resulted in a much worse outcome. This time Zarco is punished, the rationale seeming to be that he ran wide after passing and Morbidelli didn’t have anywhere to go and Zarco should have know exactly where he was.

It is obvious to anyone with a brain that Rossi has used his influence within the media to make sure Morbidelli bares no blame and Zarco is punished. Has Rossi effectively employed this strategy before? If he has then maybe it is worth considering.

Has an incident like this ever caused a meeting to decide outcomes and punishments days after the crash?

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Bern1 said:

paddock political agendas and days of negotiation are some weird modern version of dispensing politically correct “justice” that has no place in this sport.

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