2017 Gran Premio Red Bull de España

moto vudu · May 6, 2018

michaelm said:
He was in front, exactly why Marquez was said to be in the wrong at Argentina.

Lorenzo thought he was still in front of Pedrosa... but Pedrosa was actually on the line and in front. Lorenzo just didn't see him until it was too late. Again, the incident is nothing like what occurred in Argentina.

MdubSTYLIE · May 6, 2018

JPSLotus said:
I bet when Jorge went into the garage, they told him to come over to the table.

"Jorge see these papers?"

*Jorge nods*

"See this paper shredder?"

*nods*

"This is your 2019-2020 contract going bye bye."

*Shreds contract*

Ducati to jlo, "any chance you like fishing?" Hands him a one way ticket to Australia.

michaelm · May 6, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
Rossi was already far off the actual race line while Marc was on it. Rossi didn't know Marc was there as jlo didn't know Dani was there. Or did they? But that's another debate.

So the rider in front only has the right to choose his line if his name is Valentino Rossi apparently.

I agree with you that the incidents were similar, in both cases the riders were on drastically different lines and didn't realise where the other was, as the commentators actually said on the coverage I was watching and as they are saying again post race. The only rider of the four who could have averted the crash at the last moment was Rossi at Argentina imo.

p4p1 · May 6, 2018

moto vudu said:
Lorenzo thought he was still in front of Pedrosa... but Pedrosa was actually on the line and in front. Lorenzo just didn't see him until it was too late. Again, the incident is nothing like what occurred in Argentina.

Marquez was in front of Rossi in Argentina homie.

p4p1 · May 6, 2018

moto vudu said:
Exactly. In Argentina, Marc was attempting to fight back after Rossi passed him and he stayed too close to Rossi's rear tire. When Rossi had to lean his bike in the other direction to enter the next corner, Marc clipped Rossi's rear tire. The incidents couldn't be more different.

Wrong one.

MdubSTYLIE · May 6, 2018

p4p1 said:
But no blame on Dovi for making an overly ambitious move?

Like I said racing incident. Move on.

As for Lorenzo 'holding up' Dovi, he's entitled to run his own race. It's not his problem Dovi couldn't get the bike hooked up to get in the draft.

Lorenzo was running wide and going slow. He has proven he will not let a faster teammate pass no matter the situation. Dovi should have punted jlo straight to Majorca to ensure that that wouldn't happen. Jlo was going to make things as difficult as possible as shown in the past.

Mick D · May 6, 2018

The crash sucked but that WAS a racing incident. No blame for anyone.

moto vudu · May 6, 2018

p4p1 said:
Wrong one.

Yeah I see now they're talking about Argentina this year. It's still differs because Lorenzo knew Pedrosa was right behind him as there was 3 riders in a battle. In Argentina, Rossi wasn't battling with Marquez so he didn't have reason to believe that a pass attempt was about to occur in that corner since in the previous corner Marc wasn't near him.

Keshav · May 6, 2018

What a clown move. Lorenzo could have let the pass happen and then come back in another turn. Total brain-fart on his part.

JPSLotus · May 6, 2018

No further action taken by Race Direction.

Bet if it was MM in there it would have been a race ban.

Holypuck · May 6, 2018

Mick D said:
The crash sucked but that WAS a racing incident. No blame for anyone.

I agree.

moto vudu · May 6, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
Lorenzo was running wide and going slow. He has proven he will not let a faster teammate pass no matter the situation. Dovi should have punted jlo straight to Majorca to ensure that that wouldn't happen. Jlo was going to make things as difficult as possible as shown in the past.

I agree with you there. Lorenzo was definitely doing everything he could to stop Dovi from passing him, but that's his job. Like they say, your teammate is the first rider you want to beat. Lorenzo cares about Lorenzo... he's not going to do a damn thing for Dovi.

p4p1 · May 6, 2018

moto vudu said:
Yeah I see now they're talking about Argentina this year. It's still differs because Lorenzo knew Pedrosa was right behind him as there was 3 riders in a battle. In Argentina, Rossi wasn't battling with Marquez so he didn't have reason to believe that a pass attempt was about to occur in that corner since in the previous corner Marc wasn't near him.

So as usual Rossi did nothing wrong but this one was all Lorenzos fault. Apparently Rossi can't hear a bike or see on his pit board that a gap is dropping dramatically.

JPSLotus · May 6, 2018

I think the problem with Lorenzo now is he is so desperate to have good results he is losing rational thought on the circuit even if it means slowing his teammate down to stay in front, or running into another rider who is on the racing line.

Keshav · May 6, 2018

JPSLotus said:
I hope Pedrosa is okay, that high side was vicious.

Pedrosa could have used a parachute.

p4p1 · May 6, 2018

moto vudu said:
I agree with you there. Lorenzo was definitely doing everything he could to stop Dovi from passing him, but that's his job. Like they say, your teammate is the first rider you want to beat. Lorenzo cares about Lorenzo... he's not going to do a damn thing for Dovi.

So Lorenzo should pull over for Dovi? Why should Lorenzo do anything for Dovi? All these guys are here for themselves and it's not close enough to the end of the season to justify team orders.

Sorry MV I didn't read what you said properly. We agree btw.

michaelm · May 6, 2018

moto vudu said:
Lorenzo thought he was still in front of Pedrosa... but Pedrosa was actually on the line and in front. Lorenzo just didn't see him until it was too late. Again, the incident is nothing like what occurred in Argentina.

Nonsense.

Where exactly should Lorenzo have gone?. Perhaps he should have called on Scotty to beam him up to the Starship Enterpise.

You criticised MM trenchantly in pretty much the same circumstance as Pedrosa, except Pedrosa hadn't been much faster than Lorenzo for several laps.

Whether Lorenzo should have been racing Dovi is another question, but each race is at least theoretically an entity unto itself, particularly at this stage in the season, and there is little question that the genesis of the incident was a riding mistake/over-ambitious overtake by Dovi.

You guys are going to get exactly what you asked for, a "safe"/no risks Marquez winning every race by a minimum of 5 seconds.

p4p1 · May 6, 2018

Championship is over btw.
It's now a race for second.

MdubSTYLIE · May 6, 2018

moto vudu said:
I agree with you there. Lorenzo was definitely doing everything he could to stop Dovi from passing him, but that's his job. Like they say, your teammate is the first rider you want to beat. Lorenzo cares about Lorenzo... he's not going to do a damn thing for Dovi.

I don't disagree with that, but that comes with consequences. More so if the teammate you are holding up is a contender while you are not. If a rider i making himself wide than a hard but clean pass is ok in my book.

moto vudu · May 6, 2018

p4p1 said:
So as usual Rossi did nothing wrong but this one was all Lorenzos fault. Apparently Rossi can't hear a bike or see on his pit board that a gap is dropping dramatically.

It was Marc's responsibility to pass Rossi safely. Marc was the one rapidly closing into on other riders and Marc had a clear view of Rossi and the line Rossi was on.

Lorenzo couldn't see Pedrosa had moved up and taken the position until it was too late. Now you can argue that Lorenzo could have or should have expected Pedrosa to be there, but neither Lorenzo and Pedrosa couldn't actually see each other.

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