- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
Why Dani Pedrosa Is Still On The Factory Team?
- Thread starter mh_kingcobra
- Start date
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
- Messages
- 445
- Location
- Adelaide, Australia
I probably did read it--possibly even liked it. Although that depends, were you as economical with the truth with that list?
The wheels were set in motion for the 800cc formula long before the end of '05. It just seems ridiculous to suggest that one rider can get the formula changed in the premier class of motorcycling on their behalf, and even moreso before they've even raced in that class.
I think 2008 was Rossi's year from start to finish; he took a few races to get used to the Bridgestones, but after that it was like his 990ccc heydays. Give Stoner 3 wins instead of a second at Laguna and the two subsequent DNFs and Rossi still wins by 23 points; unless you think he would have sucumbed to the pressure of Stoner winning 6 races in a row. When Pedrosa took the lead in the championship after the Assen round the bookies actually lengthened his odds...
As for Capirex, I have to disagree with you again. Taking into account his Catalunya injuries there were too many inconsistent results across the season. I don't think he would've been up for it mentally, either. Capirossi really was the perfect rider for Ducati, though. He fits with their stated ethos of being generally competitive and able to snag a few race wins in a season against much better resourced competition. Too bad Stoner blew that image to bits with a crushing championship in 2007, which then people (not least Stoner himself) expected to see repeated. Adding to that the weight of expectations that signing a rider like Rossi brings might just sink the little red engine that could...
Who's refuting that Honda got their way with 800cc formula? Not me. I'm telling you they didn't orchestrate it for Pedrosa.
I don't think HRC designed the 2007 bike for anyone. It was a one-size-fits all policy, and unfortunately for Hayden--the one-eyed king in the land of the blind--that size was small; none of the other riders looked like a bear on a bicycle like he did. More importantly, the bike sucked. Pedrosa basically only repeated his efforts from his rookie year, Hayden flat out couldn't ride it, for all he tried. Team Gresini went from being the 3rd best team in the paddock to the depths of the despair.
As for the evo bike in 2006, that was supposed to be HRC's big push to win the last 990cc title; I know this because Neil 'JB tells me what to write and I publish it' Spalding said so. In the first half of the season it kinda sorta worked in an underwhelming way. Hayden himself said, on the eve of Laguna Seca, the evo bike had been 'about the same at some tracks, maybe a little worse, but good for us at others.' After the summer break it all went pear-shaped, of course, but I can't understand why Hayden didn't just tell the HRC boffins to stop ....... about and give him a proper bike. Maybe Nicky's problem (and Spies?) is that he's just not prima dona enough. Can anyone imagine Stoner, Lorenzo, Rossi et al not cracking a major tanty after the disaster of Brno 2006?
Of course Pedrosa wasn't doing any testing for the 2007 bike, he was a rookie in the class, left alone to just do his own thing. On a bike as well sorted as the RCV211 was by that stage I'll bet they hardly changed the base settings all year. Which also further proves my point, I think, how do you build a bike specifically for rider without taking any input from them at all?
I'm sure Dani could crash out on the warm up lap, if not quite as stupidly as Randy did. Actually, Randy's run of championship near misses is proof that even though there can be only one winner, it doesn't mean the other competitors are losers.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
For Repsol .......... a Spanish company ........... that sells its product to Spanish people .................. a dud!!???
You think Rossi would sell more in Repsols client base?
Stoner ?
Hayden ?
Never.
Saw a Repsol Rep. the other day in Australia though ....... so who knows?
Compared to other Spanish riders... the ones that actually have a personality.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,378
- Location
- Pomona NY
Agree about both the 800 formula and 2008.
I think as lex said years ago it is more likely they decided on the formula (probably motivated by arcane engineering fundamentalism), then picked dani as the ideal body type to go forward with it, with him being spanish to boot a bonus for repsol.
The mathematics of the 2008 season were close to inexorable even before laguna seca 2008 as you say.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 9,515
- Location
- Norah Head
Arrabbiata1
Blue Smoker
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2008
- Messages
- 6,925
- Location
- Out of Nowhere
The fact that his favorite band is Queen and that he drove a bright yellow smart car around the paddock when he rode for Honda Pons emblazoned with his 'Max' logo (which was subsequently turned upside down and spun around by Kurtis Roberts in cahoots with McWilliams) is substantiated fact. I made up the rest.
Arrabbiata1
Blue Smoker
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2008
- Messages
- 6,925
- Location
- Out of Nowhere
Precisely - and in my view HRC had a strategy and a long term view - ironically a highly myopic one. I'm not suggesting that the fact that HRC was instrumental in pushing for the formula change/engine capacity reduction around one rider, but rather machinery and a paradigm shift designed accompany a new generation of rider encapsulated by Pedrosa. Dani was HRC's great white hope following the tragic death of Daijiro. I disagree completely with your take on HRC's view of Dani as a rookie. I contest that HRC actually expected Dani to win the 2006 title in his inaugural year and Mike Leitner was availed with all the requested technical support to achieve this aim - unlike Pete Benson. I also completely disagree with your account of the circumstances behind the Evo bike, it was far more involved than your summary - but this has been debated ad-nauseum on here as I'm sure you are aware. Other than that - a fine well argued post as ever and thanks for your response.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2008
- Messages
- 3,210
- Location
- Outback Steakhouse
Dovi I agree with. Can't comment on Cal or Ben. Ain't ever seen em on a factory repsol Honda. Can't comment on Rossi. Ain't seen him on one for a while either.
I cant believe that nobody has bothered to check the physical size of the 2006 RC211V 990cc against the 2007 800cc RC212V, they were almost identical.
except for the engine,and the 800 cc had 125mm road clearance against 130mm for the 990cc.
check it out.
except for the engine,and the 800 cc had 125mm road clearance against 130mm for the 990cc.
check it out.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,451
- Location
- The North!
Dovi would be kicking Cal's ... if he was on Bautista's ride for sure!
Now Dani 50/50 if he would be in front of Dovi!?
Should Dovi had got Simo's (sorry Bautista's ride). IMO
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,451
- Location
- The North!
- Joined
- May 4, 2011
- Messages
- 205
- Location
- California
Christ, this looks like one of those off-season topics -- you guys are really jonesin without a race every weekend.
1) Nakamoto has stated plainly and forcefully he doesn't want Rossi back, so the idea that Rossi could whoop Pedrosa on a Honda will remain a fanboy fantasy scenario. Nakamoto and Suppo don't seem to think Rossi's past ensures he'd be faster than Pedrosa in the present.
2) Speaking of Namamoto, if you read his Track Reports, he rates Pedrosa highly and seems to like him beyond what's required professionally.
3) Speaking of rating highly and Pedrosa's alleged lack of personality, that's just the usual anglophone/Hayden-fan bias. In the country where it matters, Por Fuera is not as popular as Pedrosa.
Pedrosa loses his seat when someone is thought likely to be faster and is available. No one besides Stoner and Lorenzo has met those conditions. Ezpeleta has shot down removing the rookie rule for 2013, so you Pedrosa haters are going to have to get used to the idea of him being on the Repsol bike at least another year.
1) Nakamoto has stated plainly and forcefully he doesn't want Rossi back, so the idea that Rossi could whoop Pedrosa on a Honda will remain a fanboy fantasy scenario. Nakamoto and Suppo don't seem to think Rossi's past ensures he'd be faster than Pedrosa in the present.
2) Speaking of Namamoto, if you read his Track Reports, he rates Pedrosa highly and seems to like him beyond what's required professionally.
3) Speaking of rating highly and Pedrosa's alleged lack of personality, that's just the usual anglophone/Hayden-fan bias. In the country where it matters, Por Fuera is not as popular as Pedrosa.
Pedrosa loses his seat when someone is thought likely to be faster and is available. No one besides Stoner and Lorenzo has met those conditions. Ezpeleta has shot down removing the rookie rule for 2013, so you Pedrosa haters are going to have to get used to the idea of him being on the Repsol bike at least another year.
I haven't heard any comment about dani being faster than rossi on a honda from nakomoto or suppo, I suspect because they don't engage in such speculation, fanboyish or otherwise, among other reasons.
They have indicated they are happy with pedrosa as a contracted rider, as they should be since he is really good. I suspect there are other times in the history of the premier class when he would already be a premier class world champion, and obviously it is by no means determined that he will retire without such a championship, particularly if stoner does retire young or leaves honda. The proviso is that he needs an injury free season, something that not through any moral weakness he has found difficult.
I don't think it is unreasonable to speculate that valentino rossi might be faster than him if he was back on a honda or yamaha though, with valentino having a history of being rather good on hondas and yamahas, better than dani in fact. I believe stoner, lorenzo and pedrosa are all mature as riders now, and while all 3 improved particularly from their rookie seasons I see no evidence that dani has made further steps since 2010 anyway, when rossi still appeared to have his measure. Your argument is presumably that rossi has deteriorated, not something that can be definitely imputed from his performance on a ducati imo, given that various other good riders including marco melandri with his similar riding style have also not been able to ride that thing. Marco was still able to out ride the hayate in 2009 despite his disastrous 2008 on the ducati. And while as is frequently pointed out particularly by me rossi struggled to get within 2 seconds of stoner's times during the race weekend 2 days before when he first got on the ducati in the valencia post 2010 season testing, the reverse also applies in that this had no bearing on his results on a yamaha in that race, where he finished 3rd comfortably ahead of dani.
Well he won three world championships on a Honda, that would indicate that he feels comfortable on one, for a start.
That, and the fact that he won three world championships on a Honda...
Hows that for a logical argument?
15 times... three times last year. He's only a couple of wins behind Lorenzo.
How many races has Dovi won?
I think you must have overlooked where I said "Before Marquez unseats him, he has to prove himself. He has yet to do that." - the corollary of which is, once he proves himself, he has every chance of unseating him.
I didn't say anything at all about Pedrosa being kept on past his best - but at the moment, there are only two riders better than him and they already have contracts.
Similar threads
