Who thinks Rossi will retire at the end of 2012?

BarryMachine · Apr 20, 2012

michaelm said:
Even I am tired of 10 concurrent threads where barry proclaims stoner's total godhood and that rossi never was anything. As I have said previously if either stoner or rossi is no good, then the whole sport is bogus and there is no point any of us caring about it.

Michael, I have made no secret of the fact that I do not feel Rossi has the set of skills Stoner possesses. You are asking me to ignore my own opinion and not discuss the reasons why ........... thats not me Michael. To be honest where would we be if all our discussions were as diplomatic as yours? Nowhere.

People have justified reasons to question any rider, as have folk who defend such questions. Its how folk learn.

Again ........ why are you so off topic on this? Its about talk of riders as developers at present. Is over diplomacy even blinding you to the point of not having thoughts on this specific matter?

Nobody is going to die if you question things that are said, nobody will be hurt if you take a stance in the discussion ...... on the matter at hand, not on whether the discussion should be had. Perhaps thats a matter for a thread you should start?

povol · Apr 20, 2012

Kropotkin said:
None of these boys are in it for money. If there was a bike that would guarantee them a title, every man jack of them would ride it for free.

Personally i think your kidding yourself. If that were true, they would all be making 4-5 hundred grand a year and there would be no need for agents and negotiations. Its not all about the money, but like i said, someone like Bradl will not see a Yamaha or Honda factory seat in his career. I do not think he will ever get a ride that can compete for a title. I also dont think he is the cailber of rider who can compete for a Moto GP title. With that being said, why not take the Ducati ride and cash in on a factory contract and all the spoils that go with it.

BarryMachine · Apr 20, 2012

But then again ........ Anthony West ......... Pasini? Had they found just enough money ........ they were in!

I get what Kropo is saying, and youself, but I suspect its a very personal decision and perhaps born out of a need to sustain the interest at least. Go broke and you can't keep doing it forever .......

The top guys being paid to do it also gives incentive to those in "feeder" classes. Back in the day, I saw riders who may well have been world class, but reality and "food on the table" may have been paramount for them. Especially when they were likely living more comfortable lives at home than you could see a guy traveling round Europe in a van with a few bikes and a mate was ......... But its very different now .......

michaelm · Apr 20, 2012

BarryMachine said:
Michael, I have made no secret of the fact that I do not feel Rossi has the set of skills Stoner possesses. You are asking me to ignore my own opinion and not discuss the reasons why ........... thats not me Michael. To be honest where would we be if all our discussions were as diplomatic as yours? Nowhere.

People have justified reasons to question any rider, as have folk who defend such questions. Its how folk learn.

Again ........ why are you so off topic on this? Its about talk of riders as developers at present. Is over diplomacy even blinding you to the point of not having thoughts on this specific matter?

Nobody is going to die if you question things that are said, nobody will be hurt if you take a stance in the discussion ...... on the matter at hand, not on whether the discussion should be had. Perhaps thats a matter for a thread you should start?

The thread is actually entitled "who thinks rossi will retire at the end of 2012", rather than "can rossi develop" and would appear to have moved on to discussion of his legacy; I guess whether he is a good developer is tangentially relevant, but if so then so is my opinion that you turn every thread into a discussion of stoner's virtues and rossi's deficiencies.

Everyone including me is aware of your opinion concerning rossi's and stoner's relativity as riders; even if I agree with some aspects I don't need to hear it many times a day on multiple threads. You have quite interesting opinions when you talk about other things such as technical matters, riding or mechanical.

Talpa · Apr 20, 2012

michaelm said:
I am surprised you agree with some aspects of that post from motomatters, talpa, particularly that rossi is now "....". I don't, and still think he would be a strong challenger for the championship on a suitable bike (ie any factory bike other than a ducati).

I agree and have agreed previously with the last point of the post, that in the long term the remainder of rossi's career speaks and will speak for itself, and believe this is so regardless of whether he turns ducati around. I think attempting to make the current ridiculous anti-rossi stuff a current reflection of a universal/common process is pushing it though. I struggle to find a parallel in regard to a sportsman of rossi's stature. No-one much seems to be saying schumacher's 7 titles are diminished by his mediocre results with mercedes, and tiger wood's character has been re-assessed but not his sporting achievements. This probably makes the rossi stuff even less justifiable, but you guys could perhaps look at what preceded/precipitated it, ie years of "borderline psychotic rants without cause, reason or fact -driven by hatred and parochialism" by some against stoner, and widespread attribution by a certain element among fandom of his achievements and those of nicky hayden to luck, and to resources ie major bike advantages.

Again this does not justify what is going on now, and I am with jumkie and latterly kropotkin that the "neobopperism" is now even worse than the former "bopperism", Jumkie probably even has a point that the "boppers" tended to have more sense of humour. I don't forget how vicious some of the stoner stuff was in 2009 however, extending far beyond denigration of his achievements.

Even I am tired of 10 concurrent threads where barry proclaims stoner's total godhood and that rossi never was anything. As I have said previously if stoner is no good and even more so if rossi isn't, then the whole sport is bogus and there is no point any of us caring about it.

Well, the results are ..... This I agree with, the reasons are varied and I agree Rossi's riding on the right bike would put him right back up there.

The rest of it sums up the situation quite well though

BarryMachine · Apr 20, 2012

michaelm said:
The thread is actually entitled "who thinks rossi will retire at the end of 2012", rather than "can rossi develop" and would appear to have moved on to discussion of his legacy; I guess whether he is a good developer is tangentially relevant, but if so then so is my opinion that you turn every thread into a discussion of stoner's virtues and rossi's deficiencies.

Everyone including me is aware of your opinion concerning rossi's and stoner's relativity as riders; even if I agree with some aspects I don't need to hear it many times a day on multiple threads. You have quite interesting opinions when you talk about other things such as technical matters, riding or mechanical.

Its the way it is Michael ....... when Lorenzo and Pedrosa become more topical ....... they will be discussed more ..... C'est la vie.

Its certainly more interesting than talking about people who are talking about Stoner/Rossi ......

BarryMachine · Apr 20, 2012

michaelm said:
The thread is actually entitled "who thinks rossi will retire at the end of 2012", rather than "can rossi develop" and would appear to have moved on to discussion of his legacy; I guess whether he is a good developer is tangentially relevant, but if so then so is my opinion that you turn every thread into a discussion of stoner's virtues and rossi's deficiencies.

Everyone including me is aware of your opinion concerning rossi's and stoner's relativity as riders; even if I agree with some aspects I don't need to hear it many times a day on multiple threads. You have quite interesting opinions when you talk about other things such as technical matters, riding or mechanical.

Its the way it is Michael ....... when Lorenzo and Pedrosa become more topical ....... they will be discussed more ..... C'est la vie.

Its certainly more interesting than talking about people who are talking about Stoner/Rossi ......

SuperShinya56 · Apr 20, 2012

Is anyone else worry about Uccio? What will he be doing if Rossi retires? He would be jobless..........who's other helmet would he be polishing? I just don't see anyone picking him up.

DamnNinja · Apr 20, 2012

Uccio is Rossi best buddy since they were kids...He got other job, don't worry..

hawkdriver · Apr 20, 2012

SuperShinya56 said:
Is anyone else worry about Uccio? What will he be doing if Rossi retires? He would be jobless..........who's other helmet would he be polishing? I just don't see anyone picking him up.

NO, but I'm not surprised that you would be the one worried about uccio and polishing helmets.

Jumkie · Apr 20, 2012

hawkdriver said:
NO, but I'm not surprised that you would be the one worried about uccio and polishing helmets.

Goatboy · Apr 21, 2012

Frizzle said:
I'm not trying to discredit him on the Yamaha at all. Don't be so defensive. He won mostly because he was by far the best rider out there. If it was a case of the bike just being great, then Edwards would have won a fair few races as well. I don't question Vales talent, I don't question that on a current Yamaha or Honda he would still be fighting for wins. I don't buy the "he is too old" crap either. My argument is solely that a lot of people put too much into the rider development thing.

Yeah, you are now. It's all in your choice of language.

Kropotkin · Apr 21, 2012

povol said:
Personally i think your kidding yourself. If that were true, they would all be making 4-5 hundred grand a year and there would be no need for agents and negotiations.

There are riders all over the world who are paying their own money to race, at all levels of the sport. However, to come back to money, the top riders do not ask for the cash because that is a realistic estimate of their value to sponsors and the team, they ask for the cash as something that represents their status. Why did Rossi leave Yamaha? Because the fact that he was asked to take a pay cut while Lorenzo was being given a pay rise was symptomatic of the shift in their relative status within the company. It is not important to earn a specific number X euros, it is important that the specific number X that you are earning is higher than the specific number Y that your rival is earning.

The same is true in all walks of life. CEO pay is not ridiculously high because all of those idiots think that they deserve to be paid that particular dollar amount, it is that high because all of those idiots are in a pissing contest with each other, and what they are pissing away is shareholders' money. Salary negotiations at that level are more about what rival CEOs are earning than about what this particular CEO should be earning.

frizzle · Apr 21, 2012

Goatboy said:
Yeah, you are now. It's all in your choice of language.

You still having a sook goaty? You have produced no argument because you have nothing. At least you're consistent.

Goatboy · Apr 21, 2012

Frizzle said:
You still having a sook goaty? You have produced no argument because you have nothing. At least you're consistent.

Yeah it's me that's "sooking", not you at all. It's you that just had to change their tone because their ........ exaggerations were being called out.

We all know that none of this type of ........ has anything to do with Rossi, & has everything to do with your pride being hurt in the past.

gekko1ro · Apr 21, 2012

V5Stroker said:
Uccio is Rossi best buddy since they were kids...He got other job, don't worry..

yes, but it will be a ....... or a .......?

frizzle · Apr 21, 2012

Goatboy said:
Yeah it's me that's "sooking", not you at all. It's you that just had to change their tone because their ........ exaggerations were being called out.

We all know that none of this type of ........ has anything to do with Rossi, & has everything to do with your pride being hurt in the past.

You are so full of ..... I have made exactly the same argument each time, go back & read dumbarse. You on the other hand have argued nothing because you have nothing.

My pride was hurt in the past? Haha you ......

povol · Apr 21, 2012

Kropotkin said:
There are riders all over the world who are paying their own money to race, at all levels of the sport. However, to come back to money, the top riders do not ask for the cash because that is a realistic estimate of their value to sponsors and the team, they ask for the cash as something that represents their status. Why did Rossi leave Yamaha? Because the fact that he was asked to take a pay cut while Lorenzo was being given a pay rise was symptomatic of the shift in their relative status within the company. It is not important to earn a specific number X euros, it is important that the specific number X that you are earning is higher than the specific number Y that your rival is earning.

The same is true in all walks of life. CEO pay is not ridiculously high because all of those idiots think that they deserve to be paid that particular dollar amount, it is that high because all of those idiots are in a pissing contest with each other, and what they are pissing away is shareholders' money. Salary negotiations at that level are more about what rival CEOs are earning than about what this particular CEO should be earning.

And their goal is to one day be paid for doing what they love. You can twist it any way you like, but riders leave teams, and riders stay with teams, depending on how much money they are offered, and what they have to do besides ride to earn that money.Sure they love the sport, but do you really think that Casey, Pedro, Rossi, Jorge etc: would ride for free. If its just ego, would they settle for just a bigger trophy than the other guy. They are the select few in the world that can demand big paychecks, and they do. College football players love football, College basketball players love basketball, and bust their ... for free for 3-4 years in anticipation of getting paid, bike racers are no different. We might want to romanticize that they are, but bottom line, they are pro athletes.

Kropotkin · Apr 21, 2012

povol said:
do you really think that Casey, Pedro, Rossi, Jorge etc: would ride for free.

They already all have done. Professional sports is a really crappy way to earn a living. Your chances of success are tiny. Better off going into investment banking or car sales.

michaelm · Apr 21, 2012

povol said:
And their goal is to one day be paid for doing what they love. You can twist it any way you like, but riders leave teams, and riders stay with teams, depending on how much money they are offered, and what they have to do besides ride to earn that money.Sure they love the sport, but do you really think that Casey, Pedro, Rossi, Jorge etc: would ride for free. If its just ego, would they settle for just a bigger trophy than the other guy. They are the select few in the world that can demand big paychecks, and they do. College football players love football, College basketball players love basketball, and bust their ... for free for 3-4 years in anticipation of getting paid, bike racers are no different. We might want to romanticize that they are, but bottom line, they are pro athletes.

I seldom disagree with anything you say about bike racing, but I have to go with kropotkin's take on this one. I am sure they don't mind the money, but I also don't believe that is their only motivation, and quite likely not mostly their primary motivation.

Who thinks Rossi will retire at the end of 2012?

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

BarryMachine

povol

BarryMachine

michaelm

Talpa

BarryMachine

BarryMachine

SuperShinya56

DamnNinja

hawkdriver

Jumkie

Goatboy

The Worlds Forgotten Boy

Kropotkin

frizzle

Goatboy

The Worlds Forgotten Boy

gekko1ro

frizzle

povol

Kropotkin

michaelm

Similar threads

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions