No offence Dani, but they also did very little to keep him did they not?
They cancelled the celebration last year because of the angst from VR to JL.
Jarvis made NO public comments supporting JL during the accusations and nor since has he made comments supporting of JL with regards to the accusations.
Jarvis has paid lip service certainly but when your employer makes it patently clear that they care more for another than for you, at your time of glory rather than celebrate they shutdown, rather than congratulate they hide.
Of course you and many of you with similar leaning do seem to focus on the alleged fact that JL contributed to the poisonous nature, but there was NO poisonous nature in that team when Ben Spies was there winning races was there?
JL's public persona has taken a hit since the return of Yamaha's prodigal son, the man with whom Yamaha have an agreement to train their riders at his ranch, the man who is so powerfully important to their marketing that they refused to condemn publically his actions and allegations.
JL's comments have come subsequent to the poisonous atmosphere, they did not cause it and nor did they start it ............... certainly however they have contributed to the level of poison that has surrounded that team for a few years now.
He tried, he lost the battle and he has moved on ............ Yamaha failing to support their world champion showed that as an organisation, their loyalties were not with that champion, simple. Yes he has taken the bat and ball elsewhere but it is no pique of petulance that we saw some years back when someone else demanded #1 treatment but rather it is a pique of disillusionment at poor management and leadership of the team at a time of what should have been joy.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Incident between VR & MM and JL went public begging for VR (Yamaha employee) to be DQ'd. Who really expected Jarvis to support JL after that? I said it before, JL shouldn't have got involved with the MM/VR situation. He was only interested in having the titled gifted to him so that it wasn't still up in the air at Valencia.
You mean like how Jarvis supported VR after VR alleged collusion between MM/JL ......... or are they different because of who made them?
Asking as Jarvis did NOT condemn those comments either did he?
Jarvis was gutless and remains so in his role he had a great opportunity to lead and instead played ......
And just as you have said that JL should not have gotten involved, I have said that he was dragged into it by VR's allegations (on this we will never agree as we clearly see it differently)
Interesting that your comment is about JL 'wanting the title gifted to him' which I will call BS as (and let us remember) even if VR was dq'd he was still in with a chance. JL did what VR does which is be selfish and yet only he is pilloried for it for in the court of (yellow) public perception, only one speaks the truth
The person who could have stopped most of the end of season BS, the start of 2016 BS and could have kept JL (of course VR did not want to keep JL thus I added that point to make this clear), is, was and will always be Lin Jarvis. Now, being fair his hands may have been extremely tied by others within the Yamaha heirachy who clearly do not like to upset their cash cow (sound familiar, DORNA are the same) and as such perhaps Jarvis was the patsy, but he was the public patsy
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Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
Spies only won once so the team dynamic was a bit different in those days.
Re Lin Jarvis, he didn't come out in support of Rossi's accusations either, it's his job to administrate the team without taking sides, if you look back at his 2015 quotes you will see he did just that.
Re Lin Jarvis, he didn't come out in support of Rossi's accusations either, it's his job to administrate the team without taking sides, if you look back at his 2015 quotes you will see he did just that.
More nonsense. Neither Lorenzo nor MM have ever made unprovable allegations of conspiracy by other riders, nor devalued championships/petulantly attributed titles won by other riders to conspiracy, to the extent that in Lorenzo's case his team cancelled the victory celebration to mollify him. I think even in your land of the brave and free there are limitations on free speech btw, you are not allowed to shout "fire" in a cinema if there isn't one for instance.
How many times Spies won is irrelevant ............... was there or was there not a poisonous atmosphere within the team?
Nope, Line Jarvis did not come out and support Rossi's accusations, absolutely on that you are 100% correct but by not supporting Lorenzo and by not commenting that he 'did not believe that MM/JL were working together' is he tacitly approving ?
As for not taking sides that is his job ........... but he failed (and that is in the public media from a number of commentators).
He did not have to admonish VR but he had a great opportunity to support JL and did not (and if memory serves correct it is said that he admonished JL regarding the dq comment but no such reports of others being spoken with)
If Jarvis was a leader and fair he would have ensured that celebrations occurred even if VR did not wish to attend, they should have gone ahead as it was about celebrating the championship (actually both championships, team and individual).
I did have time for Jarvis as I liked the way he managed himself and the team, but as with a number of people it seems that lat 2015 was the turning point for opinions
Now this is a bit much .............. you mean that Rossi never attacked JL publically?
FFS Dani (and no offence) but BOTH are guilty of that offence and yet you say only JL upset Yamaha.
JL's departure from Yamaha is as much about the golden goose as it is anything else as everything that I have seen JL accused of recently, one can level at VR who escapes scrutiny as well as a number of others who are lightly scrutinised if at all
JL was very unwise to do this because it understandably annoyed Yamaha, but he had a very legitimate interest in that Rossi quite likely led him by 7 points rather than 4 after Sepang by dint of taking MM out illegally. A 4 point lead would have meant Lorenzo could win the title by winning the Valencia race regardless of anything else, this being a track where Rossi has not prospered historically and where he in fact previously lost a title in 2006; it would seem rather more likely Rossi was the one who was not keen on the necessity of winning the Valencia race, hence his desperation at Sepang. There were also late season reports that Rossi didn't think riders other than Lorenzo should be racing him, so again I think you have your riders confused when you speak of riders wanting titles gifted to them.
Sure, it could just as easily have been Cal Crutchlow or Danilo Petrucci whom Rossi was alleging MM was conspiring with and on behalf of.
But not at Rossi for allegations of impropriety that involved his team mate ......... funny that.
As I said earlier (and have for some time), both JL and VR did not cover themselves in glory with their statements, both showed a level of (im)maturity and yet only one has been hung out to dry because of it. Why is that do you believe?
If Yamaha were annoyed at them both, they only seemingly punished one with cancellation of deserved celebrations and lack of public congratulations.
No harm done as in the end I suspect that Yamaha have gotten what they want, VR has gotten what he wants, DORNA have ended up with a dream (that being that if JL succeeds DORNA win, if VR succeeds then DORNA win again).
JL has won in a dollar format and all he needs to do is podium 4 times and he is more successful that his nemisis irrespective of if (I genuinely believe when) Rossi wins his tenth and I guarantee you that when that occurs Yamaha will celebrate
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
You are well entitled to believe that but then by including Lorenzo by association he accused JL.
“I did what I could but it was a strange situation having Márquez as the bodyguard of Lorenzo. It is embarrassing for the sport,”
It is an accusation by association and Yamaha did indeed let it slide much to their detriment as it allowed the situation to fester from two sides. Leadership would have been pulling both aside separately and telling then BOTH to shutup and race, cut the commentary and get on with it and if asked specifically, deflect it (they are both experienced at deflection)
JL's accusations after Sepang were of the incident in which VR was penalised (correct me if wrong) and were made after he had seen one or two replays only (interesting one of the T3 guys also said that were it not VR the rider would have been dq'd from memory). Yes JL has attacked VR but what you are missing (overlooking) is that VR is doing the exact same thing by associating JL with MM and that is no accident but entirely deliberate of VR. Both do it, one gets support one gets abuse
Totally agree but would say that they SHOULD have done better.
Jarvis has a lot of experience managing (massaging even) egos so the end result of the two totally different egos was inevitable and was tipped some years back ............ it was always going to come to it and he and his support staff (not the individual team members) f*cked up and missed it all.
In the end though, Yamaha have won as they have kept the golden goose whilst cutting the other loose (they could have offered an upgraded contract if they truly wanted) and so now they have their eggs in the single basket.
Now, taht all said, JL was always going to be moved on as there is no way that VR would have JL in the team that he will likely (I suspect very likely) end up severely involved with once he has that title 10, the most race wins record and retires
Again, you have got absolutely nothing, and you are absolutely offering any possible excuse for Rossi as is your wont. Lorenzo did nothing illegal or unethical, and won on the track. Rossi took another rider out to maintain his lead in the championship by cheating, which taking another rider out by an illegal move to advance his position in the race and championship qualifies as by any definition, and Rossi can be excused on the basis of him being a little excited but Jorge is the one at fault?
Bottom line as Povol has said all along is Rossi wasn't fast enough in the last 4 or 5 races, against Dani Pedrosa in 4 of them and even Iannone in one of them, even aside from MM and JL, all else is excuse making, by you and him, and he is the one who both rode illegally and made accusations against other riders; Lorenzo at most commented about the penalty for said illegal riding, expressing a view with which many would agree ( it is obviously different for him to speak his mind in regard to something which actually occurred as opposed to Rossi speaking his mind about something conjured from his feverish imagination hey Moto Vudu). But Rossi had every justification and Jorge deserves condemnation. Rossi GP in a nutshell.
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Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
What on earth are you on about?
I didn't make or intend any excuse nor gave any indication that I thought any behaviour was acceptable. I, as per what you quoted , simply offered up the reasoning behind Yamaha managements decision not to celebrate the title win. Which is not defending any side whatsoever. Michael, you are so dominated by your need for 'the shootdown' that you cannot see the wood for the trees at times.
I didn't make or intend any excuse nor gave any indication that I thought any behaviour was acceptable. I, as per what you quoted , simply offered up the reasoning behind Yamaha managements decision not to celebrate the title win. Which is not defending any side whatsoever. Michael, you are so dominated by your need for 'the shootdown' that you cannot see the wood for the trees at times.
After blatantly using the media for gamesmanship, his team mate had just committed the most despicable act of cheating in the history of the sport and was allowed to finish one place behind him.
George saw the video of the kick and was incensed. Then he had a few word to say about it at the presser. Up to that point, all of the despicable behavior was done by Rossi. It's like the tension was palpable. And then George put his position and bam! Rossi is forgiven and JL is the biggest arsehole in the world.
Give us a ....... break.
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