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The old boy has them worried.

jarno said:
hi to all!!!
if you look at the personalities you never find an angel especially today with all those cameras... its a very competitive sport many money involved they sure wont go after the race all together for a pint or two... im a rossi fun but he has his dark moments as well... the previous goat doohan always complaining about his michelins and when biaggi wrongly penalized at spain 98 but refuses to go to pits thus dsq and loses the championship doohan said '' i saw number 6 in front i didnt know who he is''. only the rookie who is ahead of you in champion standings 3 rounds to go with a semi factory bike mate''. before him some psycho americans hating each other. last year mm went mental. but all this is normal. and good. you see the truth which is very common really... thats why you look at passion, battle instinct, determination, great moments, recovery and not number of championships and smiles in front of a camera. maybe rossi is what he shows maybe not and he acts, maybe he is calm and cool but transforms during sunday i dont give a faq... this is for beginners especially anti rossi beginners who claim the truth of bad rossi. see the big picture its brutal racing not socializing!
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The "beginners" of whom you speak are mostly people who have followed the sport for several decades. The discussion which you have joined is one concerning Rossi deserving praise for his general demeanour and love of the sport.

I have few problems with anything he has done on track, with the exception of 2 moves, those being at Jerez 2005 and Sepang 2015. He is also obviously one of the truly great riders.

What I object to is his use of his power with the media and his incitement of the substantial crazy element among his fanbase to promote the vilification of his rivals and make life difficult for them by off-track manipulation, as exemplified by the unprovable and ridiculous allegations of conspiracy in regard to the PI 2015 race. The rider who went "mental" on the track late last year and took another rider out was Rossi btw, which I am not aware of any of the other riders you mention ever deliberately doing.
 
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michaelm said:
The "beginners" of whom you speak are mostly people who have followed the sport for several decades. The discussion which you have joined is one concerning Rossi deserving praise for his general demeanour and love of the sport.

I have few problems with anything he has done on track, with the exception of 2 moves, those being at Jerez 2005 and Sepang 2015. He is also obviously one of the truly great riders.

What I object to is his use of his power with the media and his incitement of the substantial crazy element among his fanbase to promote the vilification of his rivals and make life difficult for them by off-track manipulation, as exemplified by the unprovable and ridiculous allegations of conspiracy in regard to the PI 2015 race. The rider who went "mental" on the track late last year and took another rider out was Rossi btw, which I am not aware of any of the other riders you mention ever deliberately doing.
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I'll have you know that his "power with the media" has been a driving force for Moro GP for quite some time, the VR46 brand is more recognizable than the Moro gp logo. Its simple that power was earned. May not be sports man like but you know as well as I that he don't need it to win, never has. He's getting older and he wants to lock down that 10th title before he leaves, that may be bringing on some desperation on his part. But I find it hard to turn against someone who has given me so many epic moments just because he's human and acting like it. Using his advantages to his advantage......
 
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scp46 said:
I'll have you know that his "power with the media" has been a driving force for Moro GP for quite some time, the VR46 brand is more recognizable than the Moro gp logo. Its simple that power was earned. May not be sports man like but you know as well as I that he don't need it to win, never has. He's getting older and he wants to lock down that 10th title before he leaves, that may be bringing on some desperation on his part. But I find it hard to turn against someone who has given me so many epic moments just because he's human and acting like it. Using his advantages to his advantage......
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So you agree with me.

That he is a great rider, and more than capable of competing on his merits particularly when his opposition was Max and Sete makes his chickenshit behaviour worse.

I was/am a major Doohan fan and hence have no problem with on track ruthlessness. I was also very happily following the sport when it wasn't Rossi GP.
 
mm did the worst race ever in any motorsport last year but i can understand if somebody has a different opinion. i could be wrong. rossi the media manipulator? maybe when he smile on camera automatically become capable of lap records and first place dog fights... lets make a title for his biography ''21 seasons hurting my jaw!!!!''
 
jarno said:
mm did the worst race ever in any motorsport last year but i can understand if somebody has a different opinion. i could be wrong. rossi the media manipulator? maybe when he smile on camera automatically become capable of lap records and first place dog fights... lets make a title for his biography ''21 seasons hurting my jaw!!!!''
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We have had this discussion on here ad nauseam but I can think of 2 very similar races, Laguna Seca 2008 and Motegi 2010. As I said, Rossi's lunatic unprovable conspiracy theory about PI 2015 being aired to the world press preceded the Sepang 2015 race in any case.

As I also said, I have no problem with his talent as a rider, and his achievements and longevity are indeed remarkable. This doesn't justify him basically leading campaigns of vilification, more openly last year than previously, against pretty much any significant rival he has ever had, such that even when such opponents win they lose. No-one deserves what those rivals have copped for the sin of competing against Rossi, and to the contrary of your argument in your initial post this is imo largely because many of his fans don't really understand the sport or have any perspective concerning it. The other competitors are entitled to do their job ie try to win races without the Roman circus which the sport of GP bike racing has become in being transformed into Rossi GP.
 
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lorenzo was a sure champion in 2010, no harm done even they both crash. rossi wanted to win nothing more.as for 2008 if you are 1 sec quicker the lap (aka one eternity...) and rossi passes you from the outside line, sorry but you did it to yourself casey. and of course he passes back cause his overall quicker and yes rossi play some mind games to win why is this so wrong? last year mm had no job battle with rossi he was quicker but every time he pass him he then wait to block... so as you see before the mind games and the infamous corkscrew rossi did an unbelievable race catch and pass a much quicker stoner. this i havent see from another rider! the ability to pass anyone who is little bit quicker before sunday noon! as i never see rossi loses positions like lorenjo 2 weeks before. as for the fans i dont care. i only see the race. and what happened with all the fans? start from the last place and lose the championship... and believe me i dont care about championships i only wanted to see a real showdown like we almost watch 2006 but with 2 dnfs, 2012 but with a blocked blanket, 1998, 1993 with the horrible crash of rainey, 1989 with again rainey crash etc. so rare to happen and unfortunaletty it had to be spoiled... and one last thing. posers are everywhere, and i can understand you dont like them cheering for rossi like they cheer for beyonce or whatever. i dont like that too. but this is life you already know this, every time something become too famous (for the right or wrong reasons) it becomes bigger than life popular. one will take it from there, embrace it and eventually love the sport from it and other will shout it try to fit in society. thats not rossi's fault and even if it is, like he is made out of a pop manager tube we must not give it any attention cause thats when we became ''anti beyonce'' fans which is more disorriententing from the sport than watching a rossi interview with the sound off! sorry for the bad english.
 
jarno said:
lorenzo was a sure champion in 2010, no harm done even they both crash. rossi wanted to win nothing more.as for 2008 if you are 1 sec quicker the lap (aka one eternity...) and rossi passes you from the outside line, sorry but you did it to yourself casey. and of course he passes back cause his overall quicker and yes rossi play some mind games to win why is this so wrong? last year mm had no job battle with rossi he was quicker but every time he pass him he then wait to block... so as you see before the mind games and the infamous corkscrew rossi did an unbelievable race catch and pass a much quicker stoner. this i havent see from another rider! the ability to pass anyone who is little bit quicker before sunday noon! as i never see rossi loses positions like lorenjo 2 weeks before. as for the fans i dont care. i only see the race. and what happened with all the fans? start from the last place and lose the championship... and believe me i dont care about championships i only wanted to see a real showdown like we almost watch 2006 but with 2 dnfs, 2012 but with a blocked blanket, 1998, 1993 with the horrible crash of rainey, 1989 with again rainey crash etc. so rare to happen and unfortunaletty it had to be spoiled... and one last thing. posers are everywhere, and i can understand you dont like them cheering for rossi like they cheer for beyonce or whatever. i dont like that too. but this is life you already know this, every time something become too famous (for the right or wrong reasons) it becomes bigger than life popular. one will take it from there, embrace it and eventually love the sport from it and other will shout it try to fit in society. thats not rossi's fault and even if it is, like he is made out of a pop manager tube we must not give it any attention cause thats when we became ''anti beyonce'' fans which is more disorriententing from the sport than watching a rossi interview with the sound off! sorry for the bad english.
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No problem with your English, it is much better than my Italian.

I am tired of debating this with every new Rossi fan who comes on here, although you are more rational than many.

MM raced Rossi legally, and cleanly imo, for position at Sepang 2015, just as Rossi did against Stoner and Lorenzo at those other 2 races, although the famous "corkscrew pass" was actually a riding error which required evasive action by Stoner to save the situation, and did involve maintaining his position by leaving the track which would not be legal now. If he is allowed to race that way then so is MM, however much he or his fans wanted to win the 2015 title, and if his paranoid accusations pre-race gave MM more motivation that is Rossi's self created problem. My own opinion is that taking MM out, by a deliberate move I have not previously encountered in premier class GP bike racing, improved his finishing position from 4th where he would have finished, and I saw no evidence to suggest he would have finished better than 4th at Valencia either.

Before that Sepang press conference I too blamed Rossi's fans rather than him for the persecution of his rivals, but that press conference and what has occurred subsequently demonstrated to me that he is fully complicit.
 
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we have different opinions but thats life! if youre tired debating it shows imho that youre trying too hard to make the obvious turned around. i mean were grownups and our minds dont change so easily by a faceless guy in a forum lets admit it. we are just looking for holes in order to cut through them just like (and not only) racing!!!!!:p:p:p so thats why i have to say that if you think late braking before corkscrew is a riding error and most importantly if a racer says something -true or false or maybe paranoid- in press the offended rival has the right to take measures in the track youve made up your mind even before these happen... i mean really? if you insult someone he has the right to shoot you? and yes rossi gain a position but lorenjo gain too not to speak for the last race when pedrosa pass mm only to be passed again in a brutal fassion securing 1st place for lore! i see youre from down under. i wish we had riders like gardner doohan and stoner (and vermeulen corser bayliss etc) in greece (pipedreams!) but i think you are little prejudice the way you bring stoner in every oportunity. ofcourse maybe im paranoid (like rossi) but if you want my 2 cents i believe stoner is more talented than valentino. and my favourite rider of all time is not 46 but fast freddie which is more like stoner, than rossi. 2 fragile primadonas who couldnt last, never win two in a row but done things noone else can! rossi is always fun to watch, the two above where firecrackers, if you are a neil young fun i should say that 21 seasons he hasnt fade away just one bit yet!
 
jarno said:
we have different opinions but thats life! if youre tired debating it shows imho that youre trying too hard to make the obvious turned around. i mean were grownups and our minds dont change so easily by a faceless guy in a forum lets admit it. we are just looking for holes in order to cut through them just like (and not only) racing!!!!!:p:p:p so thats why i have to say that if you think late braking before corkscrew is a riding error and most importantly if a racer says something -true or false or maybe paranoid- in press the offended rival has the right to take measures in the track youve made up your mind even before these happen... i mean really? if you insult someone he has the right to shoot you? and yes rossi gain a position but lorenjo gain too not to speak for the last race when pedrosa pass mm only to be passed again in a brutal fassion securing 1st place for lore! i see youre from down under. i wish we had riders like gardner doohan and stoner (and vermeulen corser bayliss etc) in greece (pipedreams!) but i think you are little prejudice the way you bring stoner in every oportunity. ofcourse maybe im paranoid (like rossi) but if you want my 2 cents i believe stoner is more talented than valentino. and my favourite rider of all time is not 46 but fast freddie which is more like stoner, than rossi. 2 fragile primadonas who couldnt last, never win two in a row but done things noone else can! rossi is always fun to watch, the two above where firecrackers, if you are a neil young fun i should say that 21 seasons he hasnt fade away just one bit yet!
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I have "Time Fades Away" in the original vinyl as well as most of the rest of Neil Young's albums.

Sure, adults can have differing opinions, and you seem considerably better informed/to have more perspective than the Rossi fanboys as I said.

I have a quite considered view of LS08, which Rossi doesn't talk about much now possibly having subsequently realised that it was Stoner riding the Ducati rather than the Ducati per se who was half a second a lap faster than him. He rode a near perfect rather aggressive race, and good luck to him for that. However he didn't just brake late, he came into that corner too hot, slewed across the front of Stoner and actually didn't make the corner, going off the track, and would have torpedoed Stoner at right angles on rejoining the track had Stoner, in control of his bike on the racing line, not taken rapid evasive action and proceeded to the other side of the track, and hence Stoner had justification for being pissed off imo, despite his subsequent vilification for being so.

At Sepang 2015 Rossi was the one who did the shooting/made the illegal move which took MM out, all of MM's moves being legal as Race Direction found and rather clean by his standards imo. "That's racing" as a notable GP bike rider once said.
 
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jarno said:
we have different opinions but thats life! if youre tired debating it shows imho that youre trying too hard to make the obvious turned around. i mean were grownups and our minds dont change so easily by a faceless guy in a forum lets admit it. we are just looking for holes in order to cut through them just like (and not only) racing!!!!!:p:p:p so thats why i have to say that if you think late braking before corkscrew is a riding error and most importantly if a racer says something -true or false or maybe paranoid- in press the offended rival has the right to take measures in the track youve made up your mind even before these happen... i mean really? if you insult someone he has the right to shoot you? and yes rossi gain a position but lorenjo gain too not to speak for the last race when pedrosa pass mm only to be passed again in a brutal fassion securing 1st place for lore! i see youre from down under. i wish we had riders like gardner doohan and stoner (and vermeulen corser bayliss etc) in greece (pipedreams!) but i think you are little prejudice the way you bring stoner in every oportunity. ofcourse maybe im paranoid (like rossi) but if you want my 2 cents i believe stoner is more talented than valentino. and my favourite rider of all time is not 46 but fast freddie which is more like stoner, than rossi. 2 fragile primadonas who couldnt last, never win two in a row but done things noone else can! rossi is always fun to watch, the two above where firecrackers, if you are a neil young fun i should say that 21 seasons he hasnt fade away just one bit yet!
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I think you will find Rossi faded well and truly into the distance in 2011 and 2012
 
Jumkie said:
Do you also have a signed poster of Hulk Hogan?

Rossi loves MotoGP only when he gets his way, which has been 99% of the time. You obviously haven't paid attention to how he acts when his preferential status is challenged. He threatened to quit MotoGP unless he got Bridgestones in 2007. The happy man had a frown. Sad sad sad. In 2008 he got the tires he wanted, his fast teammate did NOT, essentially eliminating by politics the competition, so he "won". Like those politicians who run for office unopposed. Yea, victory. Happy happy happy.

In 2010 Rossi was upset that he couldn't get that same exclusive preferential treatment that turned into hallow victory, the kind of shallow victories you admire, the kind won in the political climate of special status. He threatened again, this time he left Yamaha because how dare they give Lorenzo EQUAL status. Then he failed miserably for 2 years despite so many believing he could ride a Vespa and develop one into a world championship. Sad sad sad.

The man had a frown. He threatened to QUIT! But good for you Rossi has a special sport agent who just happened to be the League's CEO. The man brokered a deal to go back to Yamaha. Rossi just "loves it". Who wouldn't?

Then came along another kid and combine with Rossi's teammate made Rossi have a frown. Sad sad, and mad mad. Rossi even threatened to QUIT MotoGP, and not even show up to the final race. The man had a frown. But having that special sport agent came in handy, because then all the reporters were banned from making Rossi uncomfortable (not that they would). But that unfortunately didn’t stop Lorenzo from racing very fast and winning the championship. Rossi was sad, but mostly mad. The man had a frown. He even threw a pity party and refused to show up to the League's own trophy ceremony. Good thing Yamaha canceled theirs, because that saved him from pouting twice as much.

Because "he loves it"!

Moans, cries, threatens to quit, pouts, and frowns.
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Yeah, Rossi has won 114 races because of preferential treatment. You so funny :p
 
nomad said:
Yeah, Rossi has won 114 races because of preferential treatment. You so funny :p
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He certainly didn't win 114 races by preferment.


He certainly didn't win them only because of an unwavering and pure love of the sport either though, which is the point under debate. I was more inclined to believe this when he first returned to Yamaha after the Ducati adventure and said he was happy just to be competitive again. He has now returned to his old off track manipulative ways however, except more blatantly than ever before, late last season.
 
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michaelm said:
He certainly didn't win 114 races by preferment.


He certainly didn't win them only because of an unwavering and pure love of the sport either though, which is the point under debate. I was more inclined to believe this when he first returned to Yamaha after the Ducati adventure and said he was happy just to be competitive again. He has now returned to his old off track manipulative ways however, except more blatantly than ever before, late last season.
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Yea, I even went as far as saying I was starting to like the humbled Rossi, but that lasted 1 season. Now he is worse than ever. He does know how to manipulate though, he conned one of the top 2 riders in the world into leaving the best bike in the world. That is a talent.
 
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michaelm said:
He certainly didn't win 114 races by preferment.


He certainly didn't win them only because of an unwavering and pure love of the sport either though, which is the point under debate. I was more inclined to believe this when he first returned to Yamaha after the Ducati adventure and said he was happy just to be competitive again. He has now returned to his old off track manipulative ways however, except more blatantly than ever before, late last season.
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Lol @ just happy to be competitive again. These guys get geared up to win, no current or former championship will be truly happy to only to be competitive.

Anyone with that attitude will never truly excel at what they do for a living. Seeking to destroy the competition & a strong obsession with obtaining their goals is something all superstars have in common. The day Rossi is happy just riding around the track at a good pace is the day he needs to bow out and give his M1 to a young & hungry rider.

So you liked him better when you though he would settle for being mediocre. Hopefully you have more dislike reserved for him because he has been putting in long hours training seeking to continue to improve his skills. Something someone who is just happy to be competitive wouldn't do.
 
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moto vudu said:
Lol @ just happy to be competitive again. These guys get geared up to win, no current or former championship will be truly happy to only to be competitive.

Anyone with that attitude will never truly excel at what they do for a living. Seeking to destroy the competition & a strong obsession with obtaining their goals is something all superstars have in common. The day Rossi is happy just riding around the track at a good pace is the day he needs to bow out and give his M1 to a young & hungry rider.

So you liked him better when you though he would settle for being mediocre. Hopefully you have more dislike reserved for him because he has been putting in long hours training seeking to continue to improve his skills. Something someone who is just happy to be competitive wouldn't do.
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I have no problem with him being competitive or even ruthless on track, I was a Doohan fan before Rossi was ever heard of.

As I have repeatedly said, including in the post to which you replied, it is the off- track nonsense to which I object, which encompasses the famous "mind games".
 
michaelm said:
I have no problem with him being competitive or even ruthless on track, I was a Doohan fan before Rossi was ever heard of.

As I have repeatedly said, including in the post to which you replied, it is the off- track nonsense to which I object, which encompasses the famous "mind games".
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What off-track nonsense? You have said before that you take issue with Rossi using his fans against his competitors. So he is not supposed to criticize or voice his opinion on other riders simply because some of his fans may "boo" or talk trash on crash.net? Do you have any evidence of a Rossi fan having an impact on the results of a race?

Maybe Dorna should stop all riders from speaking to the press. That way the sensitive fans wont get all bent out-of-shape at comments that aren't nice.
 
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povol said:
Yea, I even went as far as saying I was starting to like the humbled Rossi, but that lasted 1 season. Now he is worse than ever. He does know how to manipulate though, he conned one of the top 2 riders in the world into leaving the best bike in the world. That is a talent.
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I'd say it was 50/50 between them both , don't forget there was trash talk on both sides and that is provable as there are quotes from either party from that time. IMO Lorenzo painted himself into a corner and left for the same petulant reason that VR did in 2010, following in his footsteps in more than one way.
 
Daniboy said:
I'd say it was 50/50 between them both , don't forget there was trash talk on both sides and that is provable as there are quotes from either party from that time. IMO Lorenzo painted himself into a corner and left for the same petulant reason that VR did in 2010, following in his footsteps in more than one way.
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Lorenzo was painted into a corner

He was not the painter and nor did he supply the paint.

His leaving is not comparable to that of Rossi in any petulant way as it is very clear that he has not spat the dummy but rather in some way been the one spat out.

But yes, he is following in the footsteps although (I suspect) that he will; not follow the full footsteps as he will go his own path once he 'exists , stage left' from the blue side
 

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