Sweepstake - will Rossi finish the race?
- Thread starter RossiSucchia
- Start date
-
- Tags
- finish race rossi sweepstake
Joined Feb 2018
681 Posts | 535+
Italy
True that. And other than James Stewart (SX, MX) and his brother Malcolm no professional-motorcycling black riders come to my mind.
Historically, due to its high costs, GP racing is a sport for wealthy people and I think and hope it's no offense to anyone to say that usually in western countries black people tend to be less wealthy than whites, so that could play a role.
Joined Feb 2017
584 Posts | 370+
Acadiana
Despite "white men cannot jump" I want to see them in the basketball, that's what you saying? Hire people by their skin color, not by their talents? This, my friend, is called racism. Any preferential treatment by color is racism by definition. (Some also call it political correctness.)
Joined Feb 2018
681 Posts | 535+
Italy
Lol.
I mean tho cmon sometimes there is a difference and there ain't nothing wrong with it.
Random examples. Black people are significantly more skilled at running both in speed disciplines and in endurance ones. White people are far more skilled in water-sport disciplines such as swimming and water polo.
Several sports historically dominated by white athletes have astonishing-good black athletes (think of Hockey and the Subban brothers) and viceversa (think of NBA and ma man Danilo Gallinari). It'd be like that, racist or not.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
The feeder classes (at least here) are I believe not overwhelmingly filled with rich kids. Casey Stoner's dad was lower middle class at best. His folks really scrimped and saved and sacrificed driving insane distances using low-end transport. Freddie Spencer, Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz as far as I recall, all came from pretty much blue collar backgrounds. I don't think it's so much a question of wealth as the fact that roadracing is just not really on the radar of young black athletes. Football, baseball and basketball are well known paths to immense wealth - whereas most people (again here in the states) see roadracing as an expensive hobby and not a potential career choice. In Europe there's much more awareness of MotoGp and kids start having big dreams of making it in the sport. Here - kids start out thinking they're going to have fun for a few years banging around in club racing and gradually they find themselves moving into Superbike (if they can afford to).
In Ireland it's all about riding on public road circuits and emulating all the Irish riders folks talk about at the pubs. It's just how the culture has evolved.
Last edited:
Joined May 2019
607 Posts | 459+
Where I am.
Keshav, I agree with you. I agree with you that wealth isn't the only factor. As you say, the sport has to be on the radar of the prospective black competitor. As they say, there's power in numbers and it takes extra-ordinary bravery and heart for an extreme minority in any group to set out to succeed despite the 'odds', real or imagined.
If you notice, there'll be countries where great riders habitually crop up because the culture is there and the opportunity for steeping oneself in a high standard of riding is there without having to jump on a plane to get to it.
So money alone, may not be factor. But combined circumstances, i.e., finance as well as lack of confidence in succeeding because one is a minority. A prospective black rider who is poor will more likely take his chances in areas where there have been successful blacks before him.
Lewis Hamilton with his Dad were extra-ordinary in what they did and their success is not at all surprising considering what they ambitiously set out to do. As Hamilton rightfully said, his success will hopefully encourage others like him to go for it in motorsport and furthermore, that he planned to assist in the process.
If you notice, there'll be countries where great riders habitually crop up because the culture is there and the opportunity for steeping oneself in a high standard of riding is there without having to jump on a plane to get to it.
So money alone, may not be factor. But combined circumstances, i.e., finance as well as lack of confidence in succeeding because one is a minority. A prospective black rider who is poor will more likely take his chances in areas where there have been successful blacks before him.
Lewis Hamilton with his Dad were extra-ordinary in what they did and their success is not at all surprising considering what they ambitiously set out to do. As Hamilton rightfully said, his success will hopefully encourage others like him to go for it in motorsport and furthermore, that he planned to assist in the process.
Last edited:
Joined Feb 2018
681 Posts | 535+
Italy
Could be. And I'm sure it changes country by country.
My opinion of course comes from my experience. My dad is for sure not a millionaire but nor does he have big lacks of money. I have raced road racing from my 8 to 17 years old and when I was 17, since I had never been fast enough to be ever picked by a team in which you don't have to pay to race for, he just told me "we have to quit this, we can not afford it anymore". And so we did.
I kept riding for fun until I was 22 but with my own job the closest thing I can afford is dirt track, which is amazing don't get me wrong, but 10 times cheaper than road racing.
And this ain't no "if I were rich I'd be in motoGP" ........, but of course once you are already racing but are still a kid is all about how much you can pay a team to race for them. If I had kids and money I'd be willing to do the investment as:
paying more = better team = better bike = likely to get better results = more possibilities of making it to pro level
There are several champions who came from nothing: Stoner as you say, Rossi himself was anything but a rich kid, Antonio Cairoli in motocross (his family was literally broke even before he started racing, which makes his achievements even more astonishing), Hamilton if we look at F1, and many others. But the more time passes, the less non-rich riders can make it.
Keep in my mind that nowadays most of the Moto3 and Moto2 riders pay their teams to race in the WC, and a few motoGP riders do as well (HEY, I said Czech Republic, if what you read is "Abraham" that's your problem
). I.E. a rookie year in the SKY VR46 Academy in Moto3 costs around 300k EUR/year. Price for next year would depend on the achieved results but the Teams still keep a percentage of the Rider's sponsors income.
And don't even get me started with Car-sports. In a nutshell: over here, without money, you nowadays have close to 0% possibilities of making it to a pro level in any motorsport.
Last edited:
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Could be. And I'm sure it changes country by country.
My opinion of course comes from my experience. My dad is for sure not a millionaire but nor does he have big lacks of money. I have raced road racing from my 8 to 17 years old and when I was 17, since I had never been fast enough to be ever picked by a team in which you don't have to pay to race for, he just told me "we have to quit this, we can not afford it anymore". And so we did.
I kept riding for fun until I was 22 but with my own job the closest thing I can afford is dirt track, which is amazing don't get me wrong, but 10 times cheaper than road racing.
And this ain't no "if I were rich I'd be in motoGP" ........, but of course once you are already racing but are still a kid is all about how much you can pay a team to race for them. If I had kids and money I'd be willing to do the investment as:
paying more = better team = better bike = likely to get better results = more possibilities of making it to pro level
There are several champions who came from nothing: Stoner as you say, Rossi himself was anything but a rich kid, Antonio Cairoli in motocross (his family was literally broke even before he started racing, which makes his achievements even more astonishing), Hamilton if we look at F1, and many others. But the more time passes, the less non-rich riders can make it.
Keep in my mind that nowadays most of the Moto3 and Moto2 riders pay their teams to race in the WC, and a few motoGP riders do as well (HEY, I said Czech Republic, if what you read is "Abraham" that's your problem
I.E. a rookie year in the SKY VR46 Academy in Moto3 costs around 300k EUR/year. Price for next year would depend on the achieved results but the Teams still keep a percentage of the Rider's sponsors income.
And don't even get me started with Car-sports. In a nutshell: over here, without money, you nowadays have close to 0% possibilities of making it to a pro level in any motorsport.
I get it. I road-raced AMA-CCS and WERA till I was 36 and I wasn't rich. Didn't have the best equipment - but did it for fun.
The point is - if a rider is seriously talented they can pick up sponsorship $ - but it takes a lot of sacrifice and flat out dedication with no room for side distractions.
Joined Feb 2018
681 Posts | 535+
Italy
Oh yeah I didn't state that but I was talking about racing at a level that has going pro as an an achievable-aim.
And of course the only "world" I know well when it comes to this is Italy and the Italian riders/teams.
Sponsors over here do not play a role as crucial as elsewhere as they prefer to bond themselves with teams instead of single riders, so you need to get to a good team, which also if you are fast asks for money, and there is the circle.
So you see weird stuff at times. There are riders like N. Bulega who are sponsored by big companies like Monster Energy or Dainese and have never won a race as pros (in his case not even done a podium nor finished a championship in the top 10 in over 3 years).
Luckily, once you DO make it to the WC, 99% of the issues are determined by your right wrist
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
The sport now caters to dwarfs and midgets. Not a lot of black guys under 5'5" that are passionate about motorcycle racing & have the potential to get to the top level. There's guys like Rickey Gadson, but he's 5'11" and chose to get into drag racing bikes.
Because of the way the bikes keep getting smaller with better electronics, I think we'll see a woman make it on the GP grid eventually. It will always be physically demanding to ride a GP bike, but there are female athletes with more strength and endurance than any current GP rider so it's not the physical aspect that's holding them back. It's just a matter of a woman with the right physical traits developing the skill and having the desire to aggressively compete (a lack of testosterone makes that difficult).
Because of the way the bikes keep getting smaller with better electronics, I think we'll see a woman make it on the GP grid eventually. It will always be physically demanding to ride a GP bike, but there are female athletes with more strength and endurance than any current GP rider so it's not the physical aspect that's holding them back. It's just a matter of a woman with the right physical traits developing the skill and having the desire to aggressively compete (a lack of testosterone makes that difficult).
Joined Sep 2015
734 Posts | 1K+
Office cubicle
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
What debate??? Just saying it would be good for the sport if it were more inclusive. I haven't noted anybody here disagreeing with that idea. Does discussing the idea of non-whites in MotoGp make you uncomfortable?
Last edited:
Joined Sep 2015
734 Posts | 1K+
Office cubicle
What debate??? Just saying it would be good for the sport if it were more inclusive. I haven't noted anybody here disagreeing with that idea. Does discussing the idea of non-whites in MotoGp make you uncomfortable?
black people not being interested in riding motorbikes does not make MotoGP less inclusive. Maybe you meant diverse.
There is a heap of black guys under and around 5’5.
Name one female athlete around the same size with the strength of GP riders of that size? You have no understanding of the physical differences between men and women.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Firstly - I never said that Espeleta's organization was discouraging non-whites. That isn't the issue.
To think it's a question of disinterest is naive. It's much more about cultural separatism, ethnic pidgeonholing and very much to do with economics. Motorcycling as a sport in America (and elsewhere as far as I have been able to discern) has for as long as it's been in any way promoted - has been illustrated in popular movies and advertising as a white sport or past time. When's the last time you saw an advertisement for any motorcycle with a black guy on the bike? When's the last time you saw a big-budget action film staring a black main protagonist on a motorcycle? In movies the only black (or non-white) guys you see on a motorcycle is in the scene where some guys on dirt bikes come by and spray someone with bullets or steal some white women's purse; and inevitably if those guys are ever seen again in the film - it's when the white hero in a car drives them off the road into a flaming demise.
Blacks in America and elsewhere are at an economic disadvantage when it comes to a job market that re-enforces the idea that the most acceptable path to economic stability is through playing sports or joining the military. I live a few miles from Bear Mountain and from April to October this area is sport-bike heaven from 7:00 am till early evening because it has tons of great back roads with few police and I see groups of riders coming through (and of course on my favorite roads) my area and see them at the local burger joints in the mountains where riders hang out and rarely see groups of white riders who make any effort to engage with black riders. Not because they're racists - but simply because they grew up wanting to emulate the whole biker fellowshipping image promulgated in a media landscape that isn't black inclusive. So naturally - there aren't a lot of young black guys wanting to connect with a scene where they aren't made to feel welcome.
Last edited:
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Exactly what percentage is a heap? I said under 5'5" and passionate about motorcycle racing. The black men I've seen that love motorcycle racing and compete in national series are much taller than GP riders.
The first group of female athletes that come to mind is pretty much every female flyweight in pro MMA. They are exceeding the strength of GP riders while being the same size. There are many many more females including crossfitters and other D1 & pro female athletes.
Claudia Gadelha
Michelle Waterson
Tecia Torres
Jessica Andrade
Crossfit women. Name a GP rider that can compete with this.
Last edited:
Exactly what percentage is a heap? I said under 5'5" and passionate about motorcycle racing. The black men I've seen that love motorcycle racing and compete in national series are much taller than GP riders.
The first group of female athletes that come to mind is pretty much every female flyweight in pro MMA. They are exceeding the strength of GP riders while being the same size. There are many many more females including crossfitters and other D1 & pro female athletes.
Claudia Gadelha
Michelle Waterson
Tecia Torres
Jessica Andrade
Crossfit women. Name a GP rider that can compete with this.
Black men that you’ve seen are only in America because your pea brain doesn’t comprehend that there is a continent of over 1 billion people that is almost exclusively black. There is an entire continent of people with differing cultures interests and affluence. When I lived in Jamaica there was a heap of black people who were heavily involved in motorsports. All of differing sizes. Some big, some small, some average size. This doesn’t mean they have the means or talent to make it to the GP but the dream is still there. How many white men are the ‘ideal’ size for a GP racer and have the interest, .... all. Just like the percentage of black men.
I’m so happy you decided to go to MMA. As someone who has fought professionally and trained with women I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that all of the GP riders will be stronger than those you mentioned. The difference in athletic ability between men and women is something you clearly know nothing about. They, with very few exceptions do not hit hard. They with very few exceptions have a technical skill level so far below the men in MMA that it’s embarrassing to think that you don’t see it. There’s plenty of amateurs in the same divisions that would beat world rated women.
When I was 16 I used to spar with a female world champion boxer, she was taller, longer and bigger than me. Despite that I was a lot stronger, hit a lot harder, was a lot faster and moved much better and I was a teenager. None of those women are as strong as you think they are, none of those women can compete with men whom have also trained. If you think that you are a moron.
The USA world champions soccer team lost to a bunch of school kids. Those kids while talented in American would be considered not good enough to make representative teams through most of Europe, South America and Africa.
Crossfire? The .... has that got to do with anything. Of course GP riders could do it if they trained for it you ....... melon. How do the CrossFit women compare to the men who specifically train for the same activity as them?
You’re a moron.
Whether the large disparity between men and women in athletic ability matters when it comes to motorcycle racing is another thing though. I don’t see any reason why physically women couldn’t have the ability to ride a GP bike but to pretend they would be as strong as the men whom they compete against shows you lack a basic understanding of physiology.
Joined Mar 2016
103 Posts | 32+
SoCal
You'll never see a woman on the MotoGP grid.
that's some fine SJW nonsense
This reeks of the racism of low expectations. It is not the responsibility of whites to "engage" with blacks.
that is the perfect example
Last edited:
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
You keep saying "heap" of people. What percentage is that? You're referring to less than 1% of a population as a "heap".
Yes, even the average American white male is now too big for GP bikes. We all saw what happened with Nicky when Pedrosa joined Repsol.
I call ........ on GP riders being stronger than the female MMA fighters I mentioned or female crossfitters. I never argued that female athletes can just as strong as male athletes in the same sport. My argument is that the physical strength required to ride a GP bike does NOT exceed what female athletes are capable of. GP riders don't train to get much stronger than what's required to do their job because they don't want any extra mass. That's why female athletes can outperform them in a gym or in a strength/endurance competition.
All your little name calling hoping to drag this into a 4th grade level playground fight is not going to work. You know I know how old you are so it's only entertainment to see a senior citizen resort to that kind of a tactic. Come on p4p1, show us you have an ability to try to support your opinions without resorting to childish insults... try hard.
Last edited:
Similar threads
