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Stoners warm-up lap

Well after Qatar, I'm still waiting ..... to see if the new "big bang" Duc. does not suit Stoner.

Seems to me he came from a bike where he had difficulties with front end grip ( LCR ), to a bike that had a loose back end. The screamer version would have had all the "usual symptoms", with a propensity to let go at the back quite easily. When it does this the front end would seem like the focus for grip.

Now even Stoner says the rear end of the Duc. grip so well ....... so ..... have we seen the start of another 2006? due to the shift in grip on the Duc. ..... Stoner has spent his formative years in dirt, where the front end is "all" and the back can be "waving about in the breeze" for all one cares. So long as you have that front grip and rear wheel is helping the front go where is should, no matter which way it is facing.

I hope Duc. have kept the option to go back to Screamer for Stoner.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 15 2010, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By unlikely I mean if vr is dealing with large deficits he won't ride above himself and crash Mick.
For most of his career he would mostly go for the win regardless, which I found one of the most appealing things about him
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; as recently as 2007 going for wins rather than settling for points is why he finished 3rd rather than second.

I take your point he has changed his approach in the last couple of years, with losing the 2006 and 2007 championships, more competition from other riders, or the nature of the current bikes including the one-line nature of the current formula restricting the difference his talent can make among possible explanations. He said last year that with the current bikes and particularly the current tyres the relative speed of the bikes was clear from early on and not much happened through a race to enable a change in the positions established early in the race; hopefully he may be proved wrong now the formula is more mature as the last race may indicate to some degree.

When he was casey's age he very seldom rode conservatively though
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 15 2010, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not according to stoner, He says he fell because he was backing off ! So do you agree with most of us that stoner is full of .....

Honestly - I don't know what to think. Couldn't it simply be that he fell - at the moment -
he was backing off? It's not as if he said he was backing off throughout the entire lap
or even throughout the last segment. As has been pointed out - the tires don't work
well unless they are loaded. It only takes a tiny fraction of second to lose the front
end. When something happens in such a short moment - one cannot always be 100%
certain what caused the problem. Chances are he gave the explanation that was as
close as possible to what he could figure out. In the end - does it matter whether he fell
because he was backing off or fell because of a momentary lack of judgement - or isn't
really entirely certain why he fell. It's not as if he blamed anyone else for the crash.
Personally - I don't see how this incident merits all this endless speculation.
Tempest in teapot and all that.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 16 2010, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the end - does it matter whether he fell because he was backing off or fell because of a momentary lack of judgement - or isn't really entirely certain why he fell. It's not as if he blamed anyone else for the crash.Personally - I don't see how this incident merits all this endless speculation.Tempest in teapot and all that.
Exactly. I find it interesting that in view of claims that stoner is disliked because he whinges or makes excuses there is still complaint when he baldly says he made an error and apologises to his team.

I have to admit I also find his explanation counter-intuitive but front tyre performance/feel does seem to be critical to his style and ability to (sometimes) apparently ride past the limits of the bike; with the 2007 bridgestone hard tyre with which he was completely happy he barely made a mistake. His precise statement was actually that he was trying to ride more smoothly rather than that he was pushing less hard; maybe he needs to move the front around to keep the tyre warm or whatever.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 15 2010, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not according to stoner, He says he fell because he was backing off ! So do you agree with most of us that stoner is full of .....

So do you agree with most of us...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 16 2010, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well after Qatar, I'm still waiting ..... to see if the new "big bang" Duc. does not suit Stoner.

Seems to me he came from a bike where he had difficulties with front end grip ( LCR ), to a bike that had a loose back end. The screamer version would have had all the "usual symptoms", with a propensity to let go at the back quite easily. When it does this the front end would seem like the focus for grip.

Now even Stoner says the rear end of the Duc. grip so well ....... so ..... have we seen the start of another 2006? due to the shift in grip on the Duc. ..... Stoner has spent his formative years in dirt, where the front end is "all" and the back can be "waving about in the breeze" for all one cares. So long as you have that front grip and rear wheel is helping the front go where is should, no matter which way it is facing.

I hope Duc. have kept the option to go back to Screamer for Stoner.
So using your logic, if they .... up the grip at the rear it should sought the front out
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you fool.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 16 2010, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honestly - I don't know what to think. Couldn't it simply be that he fell - at the moment -
he was backing off? It's not as if he said he was backing off throughout the entire lap
or even throughout the last segment. As has been pointed out - the tires don't work
well unless they are loaded. It only takes a tiny fraction of second to lose the front
end. When something happens in such a short moment - one cannot always be 100%
certain what caused the problem. Chances are he gave the explanation that was as
close as possible to what he could figure out. In the end - does it matter whether he fell
because he was backing off or fell because of a momentary lack of judgement - or isn't
really entirely certain why he fell. It's not as if he blamed anyone else for the crash.
Personally - I don't see how this incident merits all this endless speculation.
Tempest in teapot and all that.
Well firstly he said the telemetry showed he was backing off. If he needed to be told that by looking at the telemetry it was not a conscious act. In other words he ...... up and was not deliberately slowing because he had such a lead. secondly his lap times show each lap getting faster so logic would tell you he lost it because he pushed too much. I'm sure he did back off when he felt things starting to let go and is now just covering his ... by saying he was slowing when in fact he was doing the opposite. Trying to hard and got bitten I'd say.
The reason it's getting more debate is because his reason for the crash he gives seems so improbable with the timing sheet and what we saw on tv prior to the crash.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 16 2010, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well firstly he said the telemetry showed he was backing off. If he needed to be told that by looking at the telemetry it was not a conscious act. In other words he ...... up and was not deliberately slowing because he had such a lead. secondly his lap times show each lap getting faster so logic would tell you he lost it because he pushed too much. I'm sure he did back off when he felt things starting to let go and is now just covering his ... by saying he was slowing when in fact he was doing the opposite. Trying to hard and got bitten I'd say.
The reason it's getting more debate is because his reason for the crash he gives seems so improbable with the timing sheet and what we saw on tv prior to the crash.
Exactly............


Two stupendous .... ups in two races, yet still no 'mule' livery, where's the fun!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 16 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well firstly he said the telemetry showed he was backing off.



“The bike closed up at the front a few times but I had managed to control it, so I tried to make the turns more open. However, in the sixth lap, when I lost the front there was absolutely nothing I could do to control it. It was a big mistake, a stupid one,” said Stoner.

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/news/in-evi...stupido-erroreq

Check the link at the bottom as it is him being interviewed and he does not mention that the telemetry showed that he backed off at all, but it shows (indicates) the impacts of the changes he made to his riding style due to the slips he had experienced earlier.




Gaz
 
this just rumbles on.

Stoner, who was also bidding to give Ducati a fifth straight win in the season’s opening race, said “The bike bogged at the start so I didn’t get away well but I felt good and I was able to pass the other guys. Once I got to the front I started to get into my rhythm but I lost the front end a couple of times in long corners so I made the decision to try to ride a bit smoother and not put so much pressure on the front tyre with the full tank. Unfortunately that is what led to the crash because looking at the telemetry I didn’t have enough load on the front, so I guess in hindsight I should have stuck to the way I’d been riding all weekend. It’s my mistake and I apologise to the team because we’d done a great job this weekend and we leave empty handed. Having said that it’s not a complete disaster because we’ve found this weekend that the bike has improved in areas where we have struggled in the past – for example the rear grip was unbelievable - and we have a long, long way to go.”
Stoner could at least take some comfort from seeing Hayden performing so strongly at the front of the field. Stoner has been something of a one-man band for Ducati since 2007, but American Hayden produced his best ever Desmosedici ride to finish fourth.
Hayden just missed the podium and Stoner said he was delighted to see the former world champion in contention.
Stoner added: “That was really good to see. He got a really good start but I didn't know how long he was going to hang out there but after I crashed and watched on TV it was really good to see him running up there. He had a good fight for the podium but couldn't quite make it.”
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 16 2010, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So using your logic, if they .... up the grip at the rear it should sought the front out
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you fool.
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Yes Rog. thats what I'm wondering ..... have they stuffed the traction balance he seemed successful on? ..... time will tell. Though it seems you have it worked out already again
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Iknow you have no idea of what I am on about Rog, you give not one bit of questioning or argument, just bitching ans sooking at me
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Apr 16 2010, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this just rumbles on.

Stoner, who was also bidding to give Ducati a fifth straight win in the season’s opening race, said “The bike bogged at the start so I didn’t get away well but I felt good and I was able to pass the other guys. Once I got to the front I started to get into my rhythm but I lost the front end a couple of times in long corners so I made the decision to try to ride a bit smoother and not put so much pressure on the front tyre with the full tank. Unfortunately that is what led to the crash because looking at the telemetry I didn’t have enough load on the front, so I guess in hindsight I should have stuck to the way I’d been riding all weekend. It’s my mistake and I apologise to the team because we’d done a great job this weekend and we leave empty handed. Having said that it’s not a complete disaster because we’ve found this weekend that the bike has improved in areas where we have struggled in the past – for example the rear grip was unbelievable - and we have a long, long way to go.”
Stoner could at least take some comfort from seeing Hayden performing so strongly at the front of the field. Stoner has been something of a one-man band for Ducati since 2007, but American Hayden produced his best ever Desmosedici ride to finish fourth.
Hayden just missed the podium and Stoner said he was delighted to see the former world champion in contention.
Stoner added: “That was really good to see. He got a really good start but I didn't know how long he was going to hang out there but after I crashed and watched on TV it was really good to see him running up there. He had a good fight for the podium but couldn't quite make it.”

Could had this sorted out by doing more laps in practice.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 16 2010, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well firstly he said the telemetry showed he was backing off. If he needed to be told that by looking at the telemetry it was not a conscious act. In other words he ...... up and was not deliberately slowing because he had such a lead. secondly his lap times show each lap getting faster so logic would tell you he lost it because he pushed too much. I'm sure he did back off when he felt things starting to let go and is now just covering his ... by saying he was slowing when in fact he was doing the opposite. Trying to hard and got bitten I'd say.
The reason it's getting more debate is because his reason for the crash he gives seems so improbable with the timing sheet and what we saw on tv prior to the crash.

In the end I say so what? If he fell because he was back off or fell because he was trying too hard. With some folks here - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Would everybody feel better if Stoner said, "I was trying too hard."? No. People would still poke fun at him because it's become a institutionalized pastime for some folks. When someone's fave rider pushes too hard trying to succeed they're "heroic" - but when Stoner does it - he's immature, or short-sighted etc. Too much double-standard ........ here.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 16 2010, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the end I say so what? If he fell because he was back off or fell because he was trying too hard. With some folks here - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Would everybody feel better if Stoner said, "I was trying too hard."? No. People would still poke fun at him because it's become a institutionalized pastime for some folks. When someone's fave rider pushes too hard trying to succeed they're "heroic" - but when Stoner does it - he's immature, or short-sighted etc. Too much double-standard ........ here.
Well excuse us Keshav. Forum are to discus the goings in the race and not much of any real importance other than stoner falling off really happened.
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If you don't like it, don't read it !
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 16 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly............


Two stupendous .... ups in two races, yet still no 'mule' livery, where's the fun!!
What was that you said earlier about the lack of character of those who take pleasure in the failure of those more successful than they are? I have absolute confidence that there is reasonable headroom for stoner to be more successful than you yet less successful than valentino.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 16 2010, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What was that you said earlier about the lack of character of those who take pleasure in the failure of those more successful than they are? I have absolute confidence that there is reasonable headroom for stoner to be more successful than you yet less successful than valentino.
I wouldn't worry just yet mike. Every racer has at least 1 bad race in a season. Rossi's will come and we will cop all the flack. It's the powerslide way
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 16 2010, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't worry just yet mike. Every racer has at least 1 bad race in a season. Rossi's will come and we will cop all the flack. It's the powerslide way
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If he loses he loses; if he does so over a season it will quite likely be because rossi is better.

Nothing wrong with casual badinage with a humorous component, the reason most of us are here
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. I await some evidence that talpa has a sense of humour.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 16 2010, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well excuse us Keshav. Forum are to discus the goings in the race and not much of any real importance other than stoner falling off really happened.
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If you don't like it, don't read it !


Consider yourself excused. But don't let it happen again.
Now young man go sit in the corner till yer Da gets 'ome.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Apr 15 2010, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Doesn't take the usual suspects long I see MDub
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How you been anyway?




Removing the piss take from your reply (not bad by the way) let me ask this way.

Does a male thrusting his groin in the air in the direction of an attractive lady simulate ...?

I thought not so fast laps does not simulate a race.

Yes, a string of fast laps (and string means a good number here - Hayden style) could one suspects prepare a rider/bike/team better than a string of short burst runs (ie. 4 - 5 laps) as is Stoner style. But we cannot for certain tell can we as if we are now to deduce that he fell this time due to poor set-up then, as another poster mentioned earlier the same must be said of all riders who fall unaided.






Man, did you type and then re-edit this by chance - farken early here and i see word melding into words
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And yep, the exact point is that one managed to ride around successfully, one did not, but by following the theorists in this place both should have identified their probably issues during practice if both followed the methods of our experts.

Did either identify the problem in practice - it would appear not and for two of the top guys to be caught out to me indicates that other factors, those that could not be envisaged reasonably played their individual parts.

Either that or there was a lolly shop at turn 6 and Casey needed a hit where as VR wouldn't share the joy





Gaz


I have been well gaz. Hopefully you have been to. Always great to read what you have to say, I have always found you rather entertaining.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 16 2010, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the end I say so what? If he fell because he was back off or fell because he was trying too hard. With some folks here - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Would everybody feel better if Stoner said, "I was trying too hard."? No. People would still poke fun at him because it's become a institutionalized pastime for some folks. When someone's fave rider pushes too hard trying to succeed they're "heroic" - but when Stoner does it - he's immature, or short-sighted etc. Too much double-standard ........ here.

They are all damned if they do and damned if they don't. That racing, .... thats life. So if being the fastest guy on the bike year after year, and having only one title to show for it isn't immaturity problem(in the racing sence) than I don't know what is. Not to mention his abiltity to make the bad disisions. Like chopper said this is what forums are all about, having a laugh, stating your opinion, mixed in with some cold hard facts. You like to play this game as much as the rest of us, and you know it.
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