Stoners warm-up lap

oh ok so it looks like he has learnt from mistakes then. I thought he'd had a few more last few years but i suppose they were just bad finishing positions.

Thaks for that

I have a theory and I'm sure most will argue or not care but I'll post it anyway.......

Casey Stoner IMO has an obsession with winning and being the fastest. I know this alone is quite admirable, but in stoners case it's compulsive and counter productive such is the strength of it.

He only goes out for five lap stints to be the fastest- this is his game, so the others can fear his great pace. If he were to complete race simulations they may show up weaknesses and inconsistent times thus giving his rivals much more to work with. I mean why else would he not do them, surely they are on of the most vital things to do during practice and qp.

We've all seen the cheshear cat grin when he wins and the utter disappointment with any other result, he also doesn't like to recognize his rivals acheivements publicly, an incident that really stands out for me is post race motegi 08 when rossi won the title, during the podium interview he did not recognize rossi's race win or title win despite being the one who relinquished it. The guy has an unusual dislike for losing and is such his own worst enemy.

Once again I don't believe stoner is anywhere near as much of a threat to vr as Lorenzo......Cs will inevitably come out with some great performances during the year at favoured venues like Phillip island, but his current strategies are not good enough to beat the goat or Jorge this year, and from what we've seen he is not learning from the past and adapting to challenge the best riders in the world.

I also feel the loss of Livio Suppo could be detrimental. He was the senior figure at ducati and seemed the best at handling stoners tantrums. Without him there this behaviour could go unchecked and get worse, especially with the battles that are now facing them

i got a theory.... you guys have handbags and whine like .... to your haridressers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 14 2010, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have a theory and I'm sure most will argue or not care but I'll post it anyway.......

Casey Stoner IMO has an obsession with winning and being the fastest. I know this alone is quite admirable, but in stoners case it's compulsive and counter productive such is the strength of it.

He only goes out for five lap stints to be the fastest- this is his game, so the others can fear his great pace. If he were to complete race simulations they may show up weaknesses and inconsistent times thus giving his rivals much more to work with. I mean why else would he not do them, surely they are on of the most vital things to do during practice and qp.

We've all seen the cheshear cat grin when he wins and the utter disappointment with any other result, he also doesn't like to recognize his rivals acheivements publicly, an incident that really stands out for me is post race motegi 08 when rossi won the title, during the podium interview he did not recognize rossi's race win or title win despite being the one who relinquished it. The guy has an unusual dislike for losing and is such his own worst enemy.

Once again I don't believe stoner is anywhere near as much of a threat to vr as Lorenzo......Cs will inevitably come out with some great performances during the year at favoured venues like Phillip island, but his current strategies are not good enough to beat the goat or Jorge this year, and from what we've seen he is not learning from the past and adapting to challenge the best riders in the world.

I also feel the loss of Livio Suppo could be detrimental. He was the senior figure at ducati and seemed the best at handling stoners tantrums. Without him there this behaviour could go unchecked and get worse, especially with the battles that are now facing them


BB why do you always feel the need to make these sort of statements based on your own mindless dribble.

I realise when you were competing at this level you made a point to do race simulations every week, but most of the guys are only human and are desperate to get the bike setup as well as possible in the limited amount of time available.

Don't worry in heaven you'll have plenty of time to do race simulations...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 13 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i got a theory.... you guys have handbags and whine like .... to your haridressers.

Whatever gets you off bro.

And I got a theory for you.....you like t-bags and toss the salad of hairdressers.

@mDub - I suppose the main reason why Casey will not go out in practice and do a 10, 15 or 20 lap stint to sim the race is several fold;

It could be argued that with a limited engine allocation for the season they wish to put as few miles on each donk as possible.

When you think of the main reason for practice it is to set your bike up for the race. WOrk out the way you can be as fast from flag to flag as possible. Its widley accepted that Casey is quick out the box/can ride around a poor bike/can get a bike to an optimim operating level pretty quickly.

So if he does 4 or 5 laps and has enough feedback to say lets make this change and that change, then the subseqent laps are basically wasted. Wiht limited practice time its important that they try as many things as possble. Some rides might need 10 laps to work out what the setting change has done but Casey is able to decipher it in a shorter period of time. Once he has established the result of the change just circulating is unproductive, he could be using that alloted time to be giving feedback, altering another setting and in turn improving the feel of the bike for the next run.

I dont think that his concentration is an issue, he has enough results on the board to prove that he can keep it together to win a title and have many race victories against the GOAT.

Casey has never had as good a build up to a season as he haas this year, he is the fittest he has ever been, his trainer is traveling with him for the whole season, the bike is as good as ever. He is really confident about this season and I expect him to take it right to Vale. As to weather its enought to take the title back only time will tell.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Apr 13 2010, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>@mDub - I suppose the main reason why Casey will not go out in practice and do a 10, 15 or 20 lap stint to sim the race is several fold;

It could be argued that with a limited engine allocation for the season they wish to put as few miles on each donk as possible.
Thats good in theory, but he didn't just start doing this at the onset of the engine rule.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Apr 13 2010, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When you think of the main reason for practice it is to set your bike up for the race. WOrk out the way you can be as fast from flag to flag as possible. Its widley accepted that Casey is quick out the box/can ride around a poor bike/can get a bike to an optimim operating level pretty quickly.
If that was true he would be out there more. Trying more set-ups until he has it right. He is in no way making the most of this time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Apr 13 2010, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So if he does 4 or 5 laps and has enough feedback to say lets make this change and that change, then the subseqent laps are basically wasted. Wiht limited practice time its important that they try as many things as possble. Some rides might need 10 laps to work out what the setting change has done but Casey is able to decipher it in a shorter period of time. Once he has established the result of the change just circulating is unproductive, he could be using that alloted time to be giving feedback, altering another setting and in turn improving the feel of the bike for the next run.

I dont think that his concentration is an issue, he has enough results on the board to prove that he can keep it together to win a title and have many race victories against the GOAT.

Just saying once he finds a set-up it would hurt to do some race simulation. It suprises me that even a fan/friend would disagree with that, everything else I say I understand your disapproval. But his track record is debatable in if he is able to keep it together, to compete with the goat. It's not easy to be the fastest man in motogp and not a multi-champion. Something is not right.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Apr 13 2010, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey has never had as good a build up to a season as he haas this year, he is the fittest he has ever been, his trainer is traveling with him for the whole season, the bike is as good as ever. He is really confident about this season and I expect him to take it right to Vale. As to weather its enought to take the title back only time will tell.

I honestly hope he will be there til the end. He's just got to learn to take the good with the bad. He has the greatest job on earth for crying out loud!

I think Caseys work ethic is highly respectable and effective. The fact is, indisputable, that he is quickly the fastest rider and this is in fact reflected during races. So to question the effectiveness of how he spends his time during practuce is quite laughable. Also consider, his machine is a highly critical beast and regardless of Nicky's recent result, still remains an enigma as to Casey' speed (just ask Ben Spies); and that machine has undoutedly contributed to some crashes because it must b ridden on the very edge, which only Casey to date has been able to do. Also for those few giving Casey .... for crashing and reasoning that he must not press dont know or understand how the tires work. Casey said his mistake was not to press and load the tires (counter intuitive to the rest of us non-motogp riders) but this was his folly for which he conceeded. To say that this could hav been solved during some magical revolatiin in practice should by similar logic question the work ethic of every rider that has crashed out during races, even while in the lead (ala Rossi Indy, Lorenzo Donny, Peders, etc all aliens hav crashed from the lead, yes more than once). Casey is not traveling at Haydens speed, in fact its much faster. This is what is needed to beat Rossi/Yamaha etal. I suppose if Casey solved world hunger, cured cancer, solved world peace, we'd still hav the usual detractors.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 14 2010, 03:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Caseys work ethic is highly respectable and effective. The fact is, indisputable, that he is quickly the fastest rider and this is in fact reflected during races. So to question the effectiveness of how he spends his time during practuce is quite laughable. Also consider, his machine is a highly critical beast and regardless of Nicky's recent result, still remains an enigma as to Casey' speed (just ask Ben Spies); and that machine has undoutedly contributed to some crashes because it must b ridden on the very edge, which only Casey to date has been able to do. Also for those few giving Casey .... for crashing and reasoning that he must not press dont know or understand how the tires work. Casey said his mistake was not to press and load the tires (counter intuitive to the rest of ys non-motogp rider) but this was his foly; one that most of us can never understand the inti
intricate nature of such a task. Casey is not traveling at Haydens speed, in fact its much faster. This is what is needed to beat Rossi/Yamaha. I suppose if Casey solved world hunger, cured cancer, solved world peace, we'd still hav the usual detractors.
Jumkie, Loris did very well in 2006 on 990 ducati or you just refering to 800 era in your post?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 14 2010, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have a theory and I'm sure most will argue or not care but I'll post it anyway.......

Casey Stoner IMO has an obsession with winning and being the fastest. I know this alone is quite admirable, but in stoners case it's compulsive and counter productive such is the strength of it.

He only goes out for five lap stints to be the fastest- this is his game, so the others can fear his great pace. If he were to complete race simulations they may show up weaknesses and inconsistent times thus giving his rivals much more to work with. I mean why else would he not do them, surely they are on of the most vital things to do during practice and qp.

We've all seen the cheshear cat grin when he wins and the utter disappointment with any other result, he also doesn't like to recognize his rivals acheivements publicly, an incident that really stands out for me is post race motegi 08 when rossi won the title, during the podium interview he did not recognize rossi's race win or title win despite being the one who relinquished it. The guy has an unusual dislike for losing and is such his own worst enemy.

Once again I don't believe stoner is anywhere near as much of a threat to vr as Lorenzo......Cs will inevitably come out with some great performances during the year at favoured venues like Phillip island, but his current strategies are not good enough to beat the goat or Jorge this year, and from what we've seen he is not learning from the past and adapting to challenge the best riders in the world.

I also feel the loss of Livio Suppo could be detrimental. He was the senior figure at ducati and seemed the best at handling stoners tantrums. Without him there this behaviour could go unchecked and get worse, especially with the battles that are now facing them

The problem with your theories is you believe them to be facts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Apr 14 2010, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats good in theory, but he didn't just start doing this at the onset of the engine rule.


If that was true he would be out there more. Trying more set-ups until he has it right. He is in no way making the most of this time.



Just saying once he finds a set-up it would hurt to do some race simulation. It suprises me that even a fan/friend would disagree with that, everything else I say I understand your disapproval. But his track record is debatable in if he is able to keep it together, to compete with the goat. It's not easy to be the fastest man in motogp and not a multi-champion. Something is not right.




I honestly hope he will be there til the end. He's just got to learn to take the good with the bad. He has the greatest job on earth for crying out loud!

You are probably right re the fact that it would not hurt for him to do some race simulation, I guess the only thing i can offer in relation to that is for whatever reason both he and ducati feel they work more effectivly the way they are currently doing things. I wonder if the absense of Suppo will alter this mentality at all?

Your also right in that his speed should have netted him another title, there are circumstances and situations that can explain away any won or lost title, its always going to be dependant on your point of view/who you support. But I honestly believe that from the noises iv heard about this season they should be on for a good one. Development rate may hurt them but funadmentally they have a good bike this year so that is a big plus.

Taking the good with the bad - I have not been around Casey over the course of a race weekend but iv been told you can barley talk to him, he is 'in the zone' so to speak. Competing at that level is even more crazy that we can appreciate (even as avid followers) and each rider will arrive at their optimum in a different manner. In Casey's instance perhaps that manner can appear to be begrudging, or dissatisfaction etc... But I think out of that competitive environment you will find he is as appreciative of his role as you or I would be given that opportunity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Apr 14 2010, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i got a theory.... you guys have handbags and whine like .... to your haridressers.
don't go i got no hair that needs dressing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Apr 14 2010, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>@mDub - I suppose the main reason why Casey will not go out in practice and do a 10, 15 or 20 lap stint to sim the race is several fold;

It could be argued that with a limited engine allocation for the season they wish to put as few miles on each donk as possible.

When you think of the main reason for practice it is to set your bike up for the race. WOrk out the way you can be as fast from flag to flag as possible. Its widley accepted that Casey is quick out the box/can ride around a poor bike/can get a bike to an optimim operating level pretty quickly.

So if he does 4 or 5 laps and has enough feedback to say lets make this change and that change, then the subseqent laps are basically wasted. Wiht limited practice time its important that they try as many things as possble. Some rides might need 10 laps to work out what the setting change has done but Casey is able to decipher it in a shorter period of time. Once he has established the result of the change just circulating is unproductive, he could be using that alloted time to be giving feedback, altering another setting and in turn improving the feel of the bike for the next run.

I dont think that his concentration is an issue, he has enough results on the board to prove that he can keep it together to win a title and have many race victories against the GOAT.

Casey has never had as good a build up to a season as he haas this year, he is the fittest he has ever been, his trainer is traveling with him for the whole season, the bike is as good as ever. He is really confident about this season and I expect him to take it right to Vale. As to weather its enought to take the title back only time will tell.

Excellent informative post.

Also Jumkies comments are revealing and similar to my thoughts about Bayliss and .Vermeulin: that you follow and support a rider who is one of the best 10 (or so) in the world, riding at a level beyond our comprehension, but that when comparing themselves to Stoner ( or Rossi), see somebody else riding at a level even THEY don,t understand.
It can be a cathartic experience..........

Its a reality check when you realise your hero, doesn,t have the skill to beat the best. (Not that you should have to support the best because then you risk becoming a bopper). In fact, it is a noble thing to support your hero who is not the best. I am less virtuous by now supporting Stoner, because he is the only remaining Aussie.
Its not my fault that he is the fastest guy out there (not yet the winningest though)

I get the fact he does 5laps and in because he's figured out the settings on the bike. But can i put it do you ----

A marathon runner won't train each week for 26miles to get his fitness up and prepare for the race he will do over the miles.

So the question is and its not a slating of Stoner its a simple question from a simple person. If he sorts the settings up on his bike after 5 laps and its near as damn it perfect why doesn't he then go for 8/9 laps of the circuit to make sure there isn't problems somewhere else on the bike on a longer run? I get the tyre engine and fuel saving techniques.

Oh and the tyre thing he said - i know bugger all about the tyres. If he is saying he didn't push hard and this resulted in him coming off. Is it becasue as he doesn't push hard he doesn't lean into the bike as much his weight isn't over the front tyre as much (more the back tyre) therefore the tyre isn't sticking to the floor more like its hovering so in effect if he took the bend slightly too wide into the dust the tyre didn't have owt to grip on so it threw him off. But having said that i thought the ducati bike was heavier than the others and would have thought he would have a little more grip (and less tyre at the end of the race). Or is it cause of the force of the speed he is going it doesn't matter if the bike is heavy or not. I have not a clue what i'm asking so can some one explain to me why not pushing a bike can lead to somsort of tyre failure please

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (halfpint @ Apr 14 2010, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I get the fact he does 5laps and in because he's figured out the settings on the bike. But can i put it do you ----

A marathon runner won't train each week for 26miles to get his fitness up and prepare for the race he will do over the miles.

So the question is and its not a slating of Stoner its a simple question from a simple person. If he sorts the settings up on his bike after 5 laps and its near as damn it perfect why doesn't he then go for 8/9 laps of the circuit to make sure there isn't problems somewhere else on the bike on a longer run? I get the tyre engine and fuel saving techniques.

Oh and the tyre thing he said - i know bugger all about the tyres. If he is saying he didn't push hard and this resulted in him coming off. Is it becasue as he doesn't push hard he doesn't lean into the bike as much his weight isn't over the front tyre as much (more the back tyre) therefore the tyre isn't sticking to the floor more like its hovering so in effect if he took the bend slightly too wide into the dust the tyre didn't have owt to grip on so it threw him off. But having said that i thought the ducati bike was heavier than the others and would have thought he would have a little more grip (and less tyre at the end of the race). Or is it cause of the force of the speed he is going it doesn't matter if the bike is heavy or not. I have not a clue what i'm asking so can some one explain to me why not pushing a bike can lead to somsort of tyre failure please

His reasoning for the crash was improper load on the front due to changing his pace. And I can buy that. I wonder if race simulation could have helped??? hmmmm.........

If I am not mistaken the corner he went down on is kinda a double apexer with the corner before it. Any change in speed up or down can really through your rythm off especially in a corner like that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Apr 14 2010, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are probably right re the fact that it would not hurt for him to do some race simulation, I guess the only thing i can offer in relation to that is for whatever reason both he and ducati feel they work more effectivly the way they are currently doing things. I wonder if the absense of Suppo will alter this mentality at all?

Your also right in that his speed should have netted him another title, there are circumstances and situations that can explain away any won or lost title, its always going to be dependant on your point of view/who you support. But I honestly believe that from the noises iv heard about this season they should be on for a good one. Development rate may hurt them but funadmentally they have a good bike this year so that is a big plus.

Taking the good with the bad - I have not been around Casey over the course of a race weekend but iv been told you can barley talk to him, he is 'in the zone' so to speak. Competing at that level is even more crazy that we can appreciate (even as avid followers) and each rider will arrive at their optimum in a different manner. In Casey's instance perhaps that manner can appear to be begrudging, or dissatisfaction etc... But I think out of that competitive environment you will find he is as appreciative of his role as you or I would be given that opportunity.

Good stuff as usual, I have always amired the way you see around my ........ and have a good debate with me. Your a good man is200!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Apr 14 2010, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>His reasoning for the crash was improper load on the front due to changing his pace. And I can buy that. I wonder if race simulation could have helped??? hmmmm.........

If I am not mistaken the corner he went down on is kinda a double apexer with the corner before it. Any change in speed up or down can really through your rythm off especially in a corner like that.


Thanks muddy think i 'get' it. I buy it. I still think he should go for a race simulation especially through the dodgy bits of a track or his booogie bits. Reckon that will give him a bigger edge over Rossi. I just want this year to be a nail bitter to the end with only points between the top 5 riders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Apr 13 2010, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If that was true he would be out there more. Trying more set-ups until he has it right. He is in no way making the most of this time.

The fact that he was way out ahead so early in the race would seem to contradict your view.
Stoner does one thing or another slightly different than the majority and that quality
doubtless carries over as regards his being the only one who can be consistently fast
on the Ducati. Over time thinking back on a lot of your posts - I see a pattern - which
says you have a problem with non-conformists. I'm not saying this as a slag; just an
observation. BTW - still waiting for that PM with your mailing address.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Apr 14 2010, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fact that he was way out ahead so early in the race would seem to contradict your view.
Stoner does one thing or another slightly different than the majority and that quality
doubtless carries over as regards his being the only one who can be consistently fast
on the Ducati. Over time thinking back on a lot of your posts - I see a pattern - which
says you have a problem with non-conformists. I'm not saying this as a slag; just an
observation. BTW - still waiting for that PM with your mailing address.


How does the fact that he was out in front so early contradict my view? He lays down scorching lap after scorching, but the one costly error and its done. I just think race sim would be good mental practice for any of the riders who are not doing it. He does need to do it, to see if he can hold pace or not.

I am not asking him to conform to someone else's way of doing practicing. They all do it different, he will never run practice like Lorenzo does. ...., lorenzo probably does more laps in a single weekend than CS does all year, well last year for sure. How could you not see the benefit of running some race sim? Where do you see any weakness in it?

I find it laughable that you find me to be a conformist. With my conformist views. But being different just for the sake of being an different, not staying true to what is best for you and others. Thats just plain stupid.

Did you get my pm?

The suggestion that Stoner should do more practice laps seems a good one, but i'm pretty sure he's already thought of it.