Stoner says Danni can't beat him on same tires.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And Stoner wasn't given those tires for a few rounds in the early part of the season.


I'm not saying that Rossi and JB won't be able to sort out equal tires, I'm not even saying that they'll struggle. But what I am saying is if you look at what's happened at Michelin in the latest few rounds and you don't think Rossi was catered to during his time there then you are delusional. And the <u>fact</u> that he received the 2007 Bridgestones that Stoner was denied for portions of the early goings. Rossi has always received special treatment in the tire department.

Judging by how fast Stoner is when he uses the '07 Bridgestones in relation to Rossi, I'm quite interested to see how everyone else can stack up when on equal tires. I like Valentino, I really do, but he isn't as 'miles ahead' as some seem to think.
Please provide links when stating "facts".

Lex still hasn't provided any proof that Rossi got "Stoner's" tyres whilst Stoner was denied them, so you can't state this as fact. Nor has anyone provided proof of which races Stoner "was allowed to use" the 2007 tyre, hence there can be no comparison as to "how much faster than Rossi he was" when on such tyres.

I normally find your posts good, but felt that this one needed to be pointed out as pure conspiracy theory.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please provide links when stating "facts".

Lex still hasn't provided any proof that Rossi got "Stoner's" tyres whilst Stoner was denied them, so you can't state this as fact. Nor has anyone provided proof of which races Stoner "was allowed to use" the 2007 tyre, hence there can be no comparison as to "how much faster than Rossi he was" when on such tyres.

I normally find your posts good, but felt that this one needed to be pointed out as pure conspiracy theory.
My mistake, I generally use the phrase "the fact that" just as a part of lingo. Not to be taken as an actual fact. Sorry for the confusion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R1 SF @ Oct 21 2008, 04:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well Esco thanks for the link. I did see that video before but I missed it when you linked it earlier.

There is a massive misquote and a massive misrepresentation in what was said, and how it was said!!

And all that has been made by you. With all respect I'm not sure if english is your first language, but you got this so wrong

Here's the comments for those that can't see the video. I've quoted this word for word best I could.

Make your own minds up.

Interviewer : Asked Casey about Dani's move to Bridgestone
Casey : Am, last year I did'nt have nearly the same advantage as I did this year, and now were going on the same tyre. Thats as much as that
Interviewer : Pushed Casey on Dani's decision
Casey : People always want what they can't have, and ah, you know, I've been very lucky and fortunate to go with Bridgestone, you know, the time that I've had they've been brilliant to work with. I've had a lot of bad luck in my career and when things go right I get, you know, I get alot of excuses made of why I'm doing so well and why things are happening for me, you know, people always making excuses of why were winning and why were so fast, so its kind of frustrating, even now were on the same tyres and I'm still just as fast if not faster and, ah, people are still trying to make those excuses.
<u>Here it is folks</u>
Interviewer : So you would be confident that you would be able to beat Dani if he had the same tyres as you
Stoner : Yea

Now Esco look at your heading and at what I have just typed. They both paint a very different picture


Its not like Casey came out and said Dani will never beat me on Stones. Casey was asked is he confident that he can beat Dani and of course he replied Yea, like what else would anyother race have said. I feel that you got annoyed when Casey talked about how frustrating hes finding it when people are always looking to excuses when he dose well and yea he was a little touche about it who would'nt!!

I see absolutely nothing wrong with that interview and that this thread had been 100% misleading and a total waste of time

Brilliant Post - it proves you can never let the truth interfere with a good story.

I think I'm going to change my avatar to a picture of Shane Warne.

There is so much spin here that Warney himself would be proud of Esco.

The Spin King

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My mistake, I generally use the phrase "the fact that" just as a part of lingo. Not to be taken as an actual fact. Sorry for the confusion.
This does tend to boil down the post you made to just being "Rossi and JB will sort out the spec tyres pretty well", everything else in it being conspiracy theory pro Stoner and against Rossi.

So given that, why even bring Stoner into the equation. Or imply that Rossi gets special treatment by Bridgestone.

I at least expected you to defend the statements rather than just imply that this was either a fishing (to be kind) post or that you've got on the Lex bandwagon without understanding why.

As I said, I normally enjoy your posts - I don't understand why you feel we need another Lex

Slightly off topic but still relevent, I'm guessing then that Bridgestone are also favouring Capirossi over Stoner then? At least at Malaysia.

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...ips_stoner.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This does tend to boil down the post you made to just being "Rossi and JB will sort out the spec tyres pretty well", everything else in it being conspiracy theory pro Stoner and against Rossi.

So given that, why even bring Stoner into the equation. Or imply that Rossi gets special treatment by Bridgestone.

I at least expected you to defend the statements rather than just imply that this was either a fishing (to be kind) post or that you've got on the Lex bandwagon without understanding why.

As I said, I normally enjoy your posts - I don't understand why you feel we need another Lex
My intent was not to be anti-Rossi. My point was that I strongly believe that Rossi has gotten special treatment during his time with Michelin and Bridgestone. I don't think he needed it but I believe he got it.

I bring Stoner into the equation because he is the only other WC-capable rider to have ridden the 2007 spec Bridgestones. My intent was not to glorify Stoner or slag Rossi, I merely wanted to point out that when it appears that they both are on the same spec tire, Stoner appears to be able to keep pace with Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I bring Stoner into the equation because he is the only other WC-capable rider to have ridden the 2007 spec Bridgestones. My intent was not to glorify Stoner or slag Rossi, I merely wanted to point out that when it appears that they both are on the same spec tire, Stoner appears to be able to keep pace with Rossi.You can't possibly know what tyres they are on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Oct 20 2008, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can't possibly know what tyres they are on.
I know that Kawasaki only got "the tires Rossi and Stoner were on" after Brno, I would assume Suzuki received them sometime earlier and Melandri has likely been on them most of the season. But the only riders of consequence to use this spec have been Rossi and Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My intent was not to be anti-Rossi. My point was that I strongly believe that Rossi has gotten special treatment during his time with Michelin and Bridgestone. I don't think he needed it but I believe he got it.

I bring Stoner into the equation because he is the only other WC-capable rider to have ridden the 2007 spec Bridgestones. My intent was not to glorify Stoner or slag Rossi, I merely wanted to point out that when it appears that they both are on the same spec tire, Stoner appears to be able to keep pace with Rossi.
What makes you think that Rossi has had preferential treatment over Stoner whilst they have both been at Bridgestone this year?

Which races has it "appeared" to you that they have both been on the same "spec" tyre and which has it "appeared" to you that Rossi (or Stoner) has had a better tyre than that available to the other?

Ok, you are not pro/anti Stoner/Rossi but please provide something to justify your statements, or forever hold your peace (ie stop with the conspiracy theories). As I said, one Lex is enough

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Oct 20 2008, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Slightly off topic but still relevent, I'm guessing then that Bridgestone are also favouring Capirossi over Stoner then? At least at Malaysia.

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...ips_stoner.html
What do you mean?I have read the link a few times and the only thing i could relate your question to was that Capirossi had good pace even in the later part of the race.Stoner was slower because of fatigue in the right hand and a bad set up according to himself.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What makes you think that Rossi has had preferential treatment over Stoner whilst they have both been at Bridgestone this year?

Which races has it "appeared" to you that they have both been on the same "spec" tyre and which has it "appeared" to you that Rossi (or Stoner) has had a better tyre than that available to the other?

Ok, you are not pro/anti Stoner/Rossi but please provide something to justify your statements, or forever hold your peace (ie stop with the conspiracy theories). As I said, one Lex is enough
I don't believe I ever said that Rossi got preferential treatment over Stoner. They both got top drawer rubber. I think the rounds between Qatar and Barca are a little fishy but maybe the fix really was in electronics, I don't know. But all the rounds post Barcelona I would say that Stoner has been able to keep pace with Rossi and in those races I can't imagine either of them not getting top tires.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know that Kawasaki only got "the tires Rossi and Stoner were on" after Brno, I would assume Suzuki received them sometime earlier and Melandri has likely been on them most of the season. But the only riders of consequence to use this spec have been Rossi and Stoner.That still doesn't tell you any differences between the tyres Stoner & Rossi were on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Oct 20 2008, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What do you mean?I have read the link a few times and the only thing i could relate your question to was that Capirossi had good pace even in the later part of the race.Stoner was slower because of fatigue in the right hand and a bad set up according to himself.Oh I must have gotten a little confused there between whether Stoner lack of pace was down to him being given lower quality tyres or fatigue due to injury. I can't think how that happened.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Oct 20 2008, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh I must have gotten a little confused there between whether Stoner lack of pace was down to him being given lower quality tyres or fatigue due to injury. I can't think how that happened.
Not sure if this is supposed to be a dig at me or not. It's pretty obvious Stoner's race was primarily destroyed by lack of set up. His injury didn't make it easy to overcome either but that's racing. I said he should have had surgery after Rossi wrapped up the title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't believe I ever said that Rossi got preferential treatment over Stoner. They both got top drawer rubber. I think the rounds between Qatar and Barca are a little fishy but maybe the fix really was in electronics, I don't know. But all the rounds post Barcelona I would say that Stoner has been able to keep pace with Rossi and in those races I can't imagine either of them not getting top tires.

Hmmm, here is the post you made which I first replied to:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And Stoner wasn't given those tires for a few rounds in the early part of the season.

I'm not saying that Rossi and JB won't be able to sort out equal tires, I'm not even saying that they'll struggle. But what I am saying is if you look at what's happened at Michelin in the latest few rounds and you don't think Rossi was catered to during his time there then you are delusional. And the fact that he received the 2007 Bridgestones that Stoner was denied for portions of the early goings. Rossi has always received special treatment in the tire department.

Judging by how fast Stoner is when he uses the '07 Bridgestones in relation to Rossi, I'm quite interested to see how everyone else can stack up when on equal tires. I like Valentino, I really do, but he isn't as 'miles ahead' as some seem to think.

Your first sentence was in response to Babel saying "You got it all wrong. Rossi has been racing on Stoners tires this year and those took him to nine wins, the championship and probably a new points record." So how is this not saying Rossi got preferential treatment over Stoner?

Your 3rd sentence of your second para also states that Stoner was denied the tyres he wanted whilst the 4th states that Rossi got preferential treatment, presumably over Stoner given that the sentences follow each other.

Finally, in the penultimate post you made :

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My intent was not to be anti-Rossi. My point was that I strongly believe that Rossi has gotten special treatment during his time with Michelin and Bridgestone. I don't think he needed it but I believe he got it.

I bring Stoner into the equation because he is the only other WC-capable rider to have ridden the 2007 spec Bridgestones. My intent was not to glorify Stoner or slag Rossi, I merely wanted to point out that when it appears that they both are on the same spec tire, Stoner appears to be able to keep pace with Rossi.

you imply that they do not always have the same rubber as that available to the other.

So, I repeat my questions :

What makes you think that Rossi has had preferential treatment over Stoner whilst they have both been at Bridgestone this year?

Which races has it "appeared" to you that they have both been on the same "spec" tyre and which has it "appeared" to you that Rossi (or Stoner) has had a better tyre than that available to the other?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My intent was not to be anti-Rossi. My point was that I strongly believe that Rossi has gotten special treatment during his time with Michelin and Bridgestone. I don't think he needed it but I believe he got it.

I bring Stoner into the equation because he is the only other WC-capable rider to have ridden the 2007 spec Bridgestones. My intent was not to glorify Stoner or slag Rossi, I merely wanted to point out that when it appears that they both are on the same spec tire, Stoner appears to be able to keep pace with Rossi.
Finally someone with substance and senseability about the treatment these guys can get from the companies that have a REPUTATION to withhold.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not sure if this is supposed to be a dig at me or not. It's pretty obvious Stoner's race was primarily destroyed by lack of set up. His injury didn't make it easy to overcome either but that's racing. I said he should have had surgery after Rossi wrapped up the title.No, I didn't intended as a dig at you at all!!

Agree about the surgery, although I understand wanting to ride at PI. EDIT: & it paid off for him too, in the short term.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your first sentence was in response to Babel saying "You got it all wrong. Rossi has been racing on Stoners tires this year and those took him to nine wins, the championship and probably a new points record." So how is this not saying Rossi got preferential treatment over Stoner?

Your 3rd sentence of your second para also states that Stoner was denied the tyres he wanted whilst the 4th states that Rossi got preferential treatment, presumably over Stoner given that the sentences follow each other.

you imply that they do not always have the same rubber as that available to the other.
Fair enough, I made my bed and I'll sleep in it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 20 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, I repeat my questions :

What makes you think that Rossi has had preferential treatment over Stoner whilst they have both been at Bridgestone this year?

Which races has it "appeared" to you that they have both been on the same "spec" tyre and which has it "appeared" to you that Rossi (or Stoner) has had a better tyre than that available to the other?
I find it hard to believe that Stoner comes out of the gates guns firing like he was in 2007, winning with relative ease. Only to struggle a fair bit until Catalunya and then be right back to top form. The line was electronics, a change in the electronics made Stoner instantly faster. Suddenly he is right back to the speed he showed in Qatar 2008 and all of 2007.

I guess I have a hard time believing he could have been so much faster than the rest at Qatar with the older electronics and in the span of one race, everyone else on the grid has caught and/or passed the electronics on the Ducati and then less than two months later the speed is back. So judging by Stoner's results, it would appear to be that something was taken away. But maybe Ducati were telling the truth, maybe a tweak of electronics has been the cause for the speed.

So to answer your question I would say that Qatar and every race after Catalunya Rossi and Stoner have been on the same tire. In those races, I feel that Stoner and Rossi have been able to lap at similar times.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Oct 20 2008, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh I must have gotten a little confused there between whether Stoner lack of pace was down to him being given lower quality tyres or fatigue due to injury. I can't think how that happened.
The whole reason why he struggled and had to push some extra because of bad set up might have been caused by too hard tires like he said during the weekend.I'm not sure if the hard braking on this track caused the hand/hands to go bad and making him slower than usual or if it was bad tires causing bad set up and his eager to be the fastest all the time that made him not so careful with the hand injuries.
So it could have been the tires yes.But I don't know too much about that.What i know is that he was way slower than usual in the race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 20 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Fair enough, I made my bed and I'll sleep in it.


I find it hard to believe that Stoner comes out of the gates guns firing like he was in 2007, winning with relative ease. Only to struggle a fair bit until Catalunya and then be right back to top form. The line was electronics, a change in the electronics made Stoner instantly faster. Suddenly he is right back to the speed he showed in Qatar 2008 and all of 2007.

I guess I have a hard time believing he could have been so much faster than the rest at Qatar with the older electronics and in the span of one race, everyone else on the grid has caught and/or passed the electronics on the Ducati and then less than two months later the speed is back. So judging by Stoner's results, it would appear to be that something was taken away. But maybe Ducati were telling the truth, maybe a tweak of electronics has been the cause for the speed.

So to answer your question I would say that Qatar and every race after Catalunya Rossi and Stoner have been on the same tire. In those races, I feel that Stoner and Rossi have been able to lap at similar times.
Thanks for the answer (sorry that it took all that effort to get it though )

In response, I'm not sure I'd say that Stoners race results between Qatar and Donington (race after Catalunya) showed that "everyone else on the grid has caught and/or passed the electronics on the Ducati".

Stoner's results between those races were 11th Jerez, 6th Estoril, 3rd Shanghai, 16th Le Mans, 2nd Mugello, 3rd Catalunya

Rossi's results between those races were 2nd Jerez, 3rd Estoril, 1st Shanghai, 1st Le Mans, 1st Mugello, 2nd Catalunya.

Estoril Stoner's camera started flapping and jamming his steering, Jerez Stoner had a mare, much like Rossi at Assen. Le Mans Stoner had engine problems as did Melandri : LINK
Other than that a 2nd and 2 3rds don't look that shabby given the fact that Rossi had 2 2nds and a 3rd in this period.

No tyre conspiracy theory data there IMO.