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Some Conspiracy stuff to chew on...

baturro
3691661384900380

Maybe they are not top riders.
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This logic should also work in reverse, but I doubt you'd apply it.  Lets put this year's top three on the current iteration of the DucatiGP.  I'd bet none have a sniff at the podium and are battling mid-pack.  This is the very point Chops is trying to impart to you, even using the logic you have applied in this post above.  Looks like you just done't understand.   :)
 
chopperman
3691641384899957

hahaha, now you're saying things i agree with and expecting me to argue . I think without doubt Lorenzo is the best rider on the grid. I also think MM has a special talent and deserves the ride he has but the rules everyone else complied to should have also applied to him. Maybe if he spent his rookie year on a second tire bike he would have not picked up the points he did.


Do you think there are riders that deserve Dani's ride more than him over the past few years ? Do you think Scott deserved a better ride than he finds himself on? Do you think cal after finishing in the highest place after the top 4 deserved a better ride that the red pig ?
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Sure, where shall we put them? For what it's worth, Rossi's seat is arguable. (for whatever reason) he doesn't have the skills anymore to hang out at the front. Even when Jorge is trying to slow the pack up, he still can't keep up. So, for the sake of argument, let's pretend we live in a world where untold marketability and rabid fan following isn't enough to keep a factory seat and let Cal have his bike.


 


Now, what shall we do with Scotty? Shall we give him Dani's seat? Are you sure? that tiny little ...... can still win races, and he can at least keep up with Lorenzo at half-speed, that's got to count for something. Scott put in some great performances in Moto2 this year. I was there for one of them. I have no doubt that he is a star of the future, and I actually reckon he will find himself on a factory bike in 2015 (Even if it's a Suzuki or something) but this year, we've run out of factory spaces. Should he have taken the Tech 3 ride? Possibly, but are you going to say that championship-winning crybaby Pol Escargo didn't get there on merit? I would've loved to have seen Scott beat him this year, and if it weren't for injury, I believe he would have, but to say Pol got the ride purely due to his nationality is a bit unfair.
 
rezonator636
3691631384899545

All good points, but that's not my argument. What I'm saying is this: we all know the Ducati is a terrible bike, but a top-tier rider has the ability to make a bike look better than it is. If Cal really has the talent that some folks hope he does, then he should be putting the Duc a place or two higher than it deserves, and he should be making Dovi look silly in the process.


 


My point is, you can see true talent. I haven't watched F1 in forever, but I remember when Fernando Alonso was driving for Minardi and somehow qualifying that glorified go-kart as high as seventeenth on the grid. Or when Michael Shumacher took over the Ferrari (the one Nigel Mansell declared "undriveable") and started making it kinda sorta competitive in his first year. If Cal had that kind of talent, we'd see it. I just don't think he does.
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The bike only ever worked one way, and riding it that way was a rather  particular skill not necessarily related to riding skills on other bikes imo.


Stoner's method stopped working all that well even for him when the tyres changed and they tried to make the bike handle more conventionally, and they have gone to a different chassis since his time. Tyre wear has been a major problem for them with the new tyres, and I can't see that Stoner's riding style helping that; he (correctly imo) opposed the introduction of those tyres on durability grounds.
 
Jumkie
3691701384900948

This logic should also work in reverse, but I doubt you'd apply it.  Lets put this year's top three on the current iteration of the DucatiGP.  I'd bet none have a sniff at the podium and are battling mid-pack.  This is the very point Chops is trying to impart to you, even using the logic you have applied in this post above.  Looks like you just done't understand.   :)
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Give Lorenzo half a season, and he would start to win races or at least get it on the podium.


 


That's a bold-... statement that I have no supporting evidence for, but that's the beauty of arguing on the internet, the burden of proof always falls on the guy you're arguing with (said rule is applicable to both sides)
 
14X
3691751384901479

Give Lorenzo half a season, and he would start to win races or at least get it on the podium.


 


That's a bold-... statement that I have no supporting evidence for, but that's the beauty of arguing on the internet, the burden of proof always falls on the guy you're arguing with (said rule is applicable to both sides)
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I don't think he would in it's current form, because it simply wouldn't allow him to exploit his strengths as the M1 does. 


 


Theoretically this notion is far better suited to Marquez. Give him half a lap and he'd likely be fastest by the third split.
 
I wish more than anything we could get a trackday with J-Lo and Marky-Mark, rent the Duc (which would be what, £10 for the day?) and go test this.
 
14X
3691801384902125

I wish more than anything we could get a trackday with J-Lo and Marky-Mark, rent the Duc (which would be what, £10 for the day?) and go test this.
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J-lo complemented the yam where as the HRC complemented mm. I also believe Cal complemented his Tech 3 bike and believe he would have been a real threat on a factory yam or HRC. My point is he was never given that chance and never was going to be given it. My other point is fans forming judgements from what they saw, while never considering the un-level playing field. A bit like reading the Sun and believing all thats Written. Where closer on our views that you may thing 14x. Its just the little bits on the end we differ on.
 
Arrabbiata1
3691791384901914

I don't think he would in it's current form, because it simply wouldn't allow him to exploit his strengths as the M1 does. 


 


Theoretically this notion is far better suited to Marquez. Give him half a lap and he'd likely be fastest by the third split.
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I reckon he could have ridden the old bike.
 
My point is he was never given that chance and never was going to be given it.
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Doesn't mean he never will. Next year will be instrumental. So long as the bike doesn't beat him and he continues to ride like always has, he may well find himself on a factory bike in the future. Suzuki are joining in 2015, Aprillia in 2016, Rossi can't live forever. Good things may be on the horizon.
 
14X
3691831384903128

Doesn't mean he never will. Next year will be instrumental. So long as the bike doesn't beat him and he continues to ride like always has, he may well find himself on a factory bike in the future. Suzuki are joining in 2015, Aprillia in 2016, Rossi can't live forever. Good things may be on the horizon.
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I like you optimism mate and hope you're right. Maybe as we live close we should meet in a pub with BT sport next season and watch a race over a few sherbets.


 


Maybe i'm pessimistic, i think realistic, but just look at the upcoming spaniards from moto2 and i thing Cal is finished with hopes of getting a good ride. I just hope Duc are paying lots .
 
I honestly can't understand how people constantly argue who has the measure of who vis a vis well so-and-so had a crappy bike. Then the same people bemoan any prototype series becoming a spec series. If you want to get a level playing field to see who truly is a talented rider, wouldn't a spec series be what you would want?
 
eltoro
3691851384903725

I honestly can't understand how people constantly argue who has the measure of who vis a vis well so-and-so had a crappy bike. Then the same people bemoan any prototype series becoming a spec series. If you want to get a level playing field to see who truly is a talented rider, wouldn't a spec series be what you would want?
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I can see your point but think to entirely missed ours. The disparity in motogp is so great that not only are riders being put to pasture prematurely , manufactures are scared away. Not only will they struggle to compete with the huge money teams, now with the scrapping of the rookie rule have no chance of a rider that could make the difference. 
 
14X
3691831384903128

Doesn't mean he never will. Next year will be instrumental. So long as the bike doesn't beat him and he continues to ride like always has, he may well find himself on a factory bike in the future. Suzuki are joining in 2015, Aprillia in 2016, Rossi can't live forever. Good things may be on the horizon.
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That's exactly my point. If he really is that talented, his talent will show through and he'll wring some semi-decent performances out of the Duc, which could lead to opportunities down the road. Although, he technically is on a "factory" bike now, in name at least.
 
rezonator636
3691871384904716

That's exactly my point. If he really is that talented, his talent will show through and he'll wring some semi-decent performances out of the Duc, which could lead to opportunities down the road. Although, he technically is on a "factory" bike now, in name at least.
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Nice thought but Unlikely. Look at the upcoming Spanish names currently in moto2. He has 2 hopes, Bob Hope and No ....... hope imho.
 
chopperman
3691861384904128

I can see your point but think to entirely missed ours. The disparity in motogp is so great that not only are riders being put to pasture prematurely , manufactures are scared away. Not only will they struggle to compete with the huge money teams, now with the scrapping of the rookie rule have no chance of a rider that could make the difference. 
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I understand the current climate of GP. I was just making an observation that people dislike spec series, but it is one of the realistic ways that racing can produce parity.
 
chopper, the real reason Cal won't be on the Yamaha next year is bradley's contract for 2 years with tech 3. Herve ...... up the day he signed smith for a long contract essentially blind. Pol deserves the Yamaha a ride as does Cal. the problem is Bradley
 
chopperman
3691881384905055

Nice thought but Unlikely. Look at the upcoming Spanish names currently in moto2. He has 2 hopes, Bob Hope and No ....... hope imho.
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He has another hope: GiGi. Maybe the man can work some miracles on the Duc. You know, like with the anti-wheelie fairing and such...
 
baturro
3691931384906244

chopper, the real reason Cal won't be on the Yamaha next year is bradley's contract for 2 years with tech 3. Herve ...... up the day he signed smith for a long contract essentially blind. Pol deserves the Yamaha a ride as does Cal. the problem is Bradley
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Hard to argue with that. But personally if deserve meant anything in this sport, i would say Cal deserved Rossi's ride, maybe even dani's but i understand thats debatable.
 

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