Silly Season 2018

Gaz · Jun 14, 2018

synn said:
J.Lo confirmed in yesterday’s interview that he approached Honda first, not the other way around.

I am well aware of what JL has said but I also recall that many riders say one thing and yet mean/do another so take much of what is said with a grain of salt. After all, in one article JL says that he called Honda and then we see his manager in other articles saying that he (the manager) made contact on JL's behalf and elsewhere I have seen that Marquez approached and that Puig made overtures once his primary targets went south ............

Like 99% of all things we will not know the full chronology unless is suits the rider to let us know the chronology and truth behind it all (and none of this is to disparage anyone as it is part and parcel of negotiating), something I suspect we will never know as negotiations and contracts tend to be confidential.

That all said, it is unusual for a rider to say that he made the approach and if true it opens a few wounds of years past where others seemed to want to get involved where things suited them ............. or perhaps it shows the worth of JL to that organisation

synn · Jun 14, 2018

michaelm said:
And they seem to have jumped at the chance as I said.

I also agree with J4rn0, who is of the opinion that Jorge's ego wouldn't allow him to take a satellite ride such as the putative Petronas Yamaha ride. The fact that it wasn't a dead set certain ride as covered by David Emmett in a piece on his site, which I presume you read as I did, likely came into his decision as well. Jorge's and HRC's motives can be multifaceted, just as it is possible for both of us to be biased, even if those biases are different.

More like every other competitive rider they wanted were already taken and J.Lo was basically willing to work for food. Even then, as the rumors stand, took some convincing from Puig before the bigwigs agreed to it.

The only part I laugh about is the theory that this is all somehow a master plan to keep J.Lo from a Yamaha. A Yamaha that we only heard about 2 weeks ago and still isn’t confirmed by anyone in the know.

As I said before, the only master plan here is J.Lo’s manager’s who made this happen.

Gaz · Jun 14, 2018

synn said:
More like every other competitive rider they wanted were already taken and J.Lo was basically willing to work for food. Even then, as the rumors stand, took some convincing from Puig before the bigwigs agreed to it.

The only part I laugh about is the theory that this is all somehow a master plan to keep J.Lo from a Yamaha. A Yamaha that we only heard about 2 weeks ago and still isn’t confirmed by anyone in the know.

As I said before, the only master plan here is J.Lo’s manager’s who made this happen.

IMO but it does tend to reek a bit of desperation from both sides (edit to add - from JL's side, totally understandable).

That of Lorenzo to get a factory ride and his willingness to go to Honda for what is likely a serious bit of coin, but far less than would be ideal.

On the other, from Puig who likely has a role that has a requirement of performance in what/who he delivers to HRC and as such, he needed a name rider if he were to let Pedrosa who has been ridiculously loyal to HRC go .......

Interesting times ahead as the egos inside HRC now will be very interesting with the Marquez camp, Lorenzo camp and Puig

McZee · Jun 14, 2018

synn said:
The only part I laugh about is the theory that this is all somehow a master plan to keep J.Lo from a Yamaha. A Yamaha that we only heard about 2 weeks ago and still isn’t confirmed by anyone in the know.

.

Yeah, I can't see that Honda's primary motivation in signing Horhay was a fear of him getting on to a 'possible' satellite Yam'.
I think that it is nothing more or less complicated than they got a multiple world champion at a knock down price.
The order in which who called who is kind of a moot point and, as has been pointed out, we'll probably never know the full truth anyway.

BarryMachine · Jun 14, 2018

I dont know why you folk are all making such a fuss.

Honda would naturally have grabbed Jorge as he can both take wins for Honda as well as take wins from Yam.

Jorge does not like rossi, and vice versa, so the Yamaha idea was fairly pie in the sky.

He is likely the next best thing to Marq. On the grid. Honda big win.

Pedro was meant to do what Jorge will do but he is getting worse at it. No big deal .... they have a new ..... old ....Pedro.

michaelm · Jun 14, 2018

synn said:
More like every other competitive rider they wanted were already taken and J.Lo was basically willing to work for food. Even then, as the rumors stand, took some convincing from Puig before the bigwigs agreed to it.

The only part I laugh about is the theory that this is all somehow a master plan to keep J.Lo from a Yamaha. A Yamaha that we only heard about 2 weeks ago and still isn’t confirmed by anyone in the know.

As I said before, the only master plan here is J.Lo’s manager’s who made this happen.

And my disagreement is with your implication that HRC wouldn't consider Jorge a threat to them if he got back on a Yamaha, particularly a factory bike, which you contend might be available to whatever team is the satellite Yamaha team when that is what suits your purpose, rather than in this discussion in which it suits you to say the team is non existent/theoretical.

All I did was say before anyone was taking the Jorge to HRC thing seriously when the speculation was that he was going to a Petronas Yamaha team was that signing Jorge would be a Honda thing to do, an opinion I still hold. If I was wrong in this case in regard to Jorge in particular then I was wrong, but full motives concerning I was wrong, but the full motives of everyone and nature of the negotiations in these matters are not necessarily ever disclosed as others have said, certainly HRC are not going to say they signed Jorge to keep him from Yamaha and Jorge is not going to say he doesn't want to ride a Yamaha because he dislikes Jarvis and Rossi.

McZee · Jun 15, 2018

I wish I could make out like I knew what was going on all along. But, being honest, the whole Horhay to HRC thing, kind of blind sided me. I genuinely thought that he would be left out in the cold.
I'm glad he got a good ride.

synn · Jun 15, 2018

michaelm said:
And my disagreement is with your implication that HRC wouldn't consider Jorge a threat to them if he got back on a Yamaha, particularly a factory bike, which you contend might be available to whatever team is the satellite Yamaha team when that is what suits your purpose, rather than in this discussion in which it suits you to say the team is non existent/theoretical.

All I did was say before anyone was taking the Jorge to HRC thing seriously when the speculation was that he was going to a Petronas Yamaha team was that signing Jorge would be a Honda thing to do, an opinion I still hold. If I was wrong in this case in regard to Jorge in particular then I was wrong, but full motivbes concerning I was wrong, but the full motives of evryone and nature of the negotiations in theses matters are not necessarily ever disclosed as others have said, certainly HRC are not going to say they signed Jorge to keep him from Yamaha and Jorge is not going to say he doesn't want to ride a Yamaha because he dislikes Jarvis and Rossi.

Yes, Honda saw George as a potential threat on a Yamaha that didn’t exist during the LeMans weekend given the amazing performance he was putting out on the Ducati at that point.

The tinfoil is strong with this one.

michaelm · Jun 15, 2018

McZee said:
I wish I could make out like I knew what was going on all along. But, being honest, the whole Horhay to HRC thing, kind of blind sided me. I genuinely thought that he would be left out in the cold.
I'm glad he got a good ride.

Sure, I thought there was some chance of that as well, and thought there was some chance of it happening with Stoner in 2010 as well, he was certainly right on the outer at Ducati where the Marlboro man was very influential at the time.

michaelm · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
Yes, Honda saw George as a potential threat on a Yamaha that didn’t exist during the LeMans weekend given the amazing performance he was putting out on the Ducati at that point.

The tinfoil is strong with this one.

Strange that those with your allegiance are wont to cry tinfoil, given your guy has alleged the largest conspiracy in gp bike racing history to the world press at large with absolutely no evidence, based on the absolutely ludicrous proposition that Marc Márquez tanked a race to aid Jorge Lorenzo, despite him actually winning the race thereby depriving Lorenzo of 5 points. Any speculation on here pales in comparison with all that.

synn · Jun 15, 2018

michaelm said:
Strange that those with your allegiance are wont to cry tinfoil, given your guy has alleged the largest conspiracy in gp bike racing history to the world press at large with absolutely no evidence, based on the absolutely ludicrous proposition that Marc Márquez tanked a race to aid Jorge Lorenzo, despite him actually winning the race thereby depriving Lorenzo of 5 points. Any speculation on here pales in comparison with all that.

Stop deflecting and using whataboutism, Mitchell.
You ...... up. Just admit it and move on.

McZee · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
Yes, Honda saw George as a potential threat on a Yamaha that didn’t exist during the LeMans weekend given the amazing performance he was putting out on the Ducati at that point.

The tinfoil is strong with this one.

I think one of the things to bear in mind is that, pre the HRC signing, there was so much speculative noise from the media about the Petronas Yam', that it seemed feasible. It's only with hindsight that we now see it was less likely than believed.
Also, the fact that the Jorge/Yamaha combo was the only thing to beat Marc cannot be overstated.

Mike also makes a good point that, if you're talking conspiracy theories, the old Marc helping horhay is right up there with Carmelo being on the grassy knoll, (and you should know, after all, you are Carmelo).

synn · Jun 15, 2018

McZee said:
I think one of the things to bear in mind is that, pre the HRC signing, there was so much speculative noise from the media about the Petronas Yam', that it seemed feasible. It's only with hindsight that we now see it was less likely than believed.
Also, the fact that the Jorge/Yamaha combo was the only thing to beat Marc cannot be overstated.

Mike also makes a good point that, if you're talking conspiracy theories, the old Marc helping horhay is right up there with Carmelo being on the grassy knoll, (and you should know, after all, you are Carmelo).

The Rossi Yamaha combo beat Marquez on the same year that the George- Yamaha combo did.

michaelm · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
Stop deflecting and using whataboutism, Mitchell.
You ...... up. Just admit it and move on.

So we are back to Mitchelling are we?. Not particularly devastating as someone who has had my surname misspelt and mispronounced all my life, and also the name of a devastating Australian fast bowler of whom I was a major fan, not that any attempted insult from a semi-literate anonymous keyboard warrior is of any import in the first place.

I have already said if I was wrong I was wrong. It was your tinfoil reference to which I responded, and if we are to talk hypocrisy it would appear only “conspiracy theories” raised by those with whom you disagree are problematic for you.

What was really amusing btw was your recent accusation that I read posts only to react, ironic given that unless you really are as stupid as you sometimes appear to be you quite often post to elicit a reaction.

McZee · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
The Rossi Yamaha combo beat Marquez on the same year that the George- Yamaha combo did.

Damn, it did as well. I forgot about that.
Edited to add that I am slightly embarrassed about it too.

synn · Jun 15, 2018

michaelm said:
So we are back to Mitchelling are we?. Not particularly devastating as someone who has had my surname misspelt and mispronounced all my life, and also the name of a devastating Australian fast bowler of whom I was a major fan, not that any attempted insult from a semi-literate anonymous keyboard warrior is of any import in the first place.

I have already said if I was wrong I was wrong. It was your tinfoil reference to which I responded, and if we are to talk hypocrisy it would appear only “conspiracy theories” raised by those with whom you disagree are problematic for you.

What was really amusing btw was your recent accusation that I read posts only to react, ironic given that unless you really are as stupid as you sometimes appear to be you quite often post to elicit a reaction.

Watch out guys, Mitchell breaks out the thesaurus.
It’s showtime!

michaelm · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
The Rossi Yamaha combo beat Marquez on the same year that the George- Yamaha combo did.

Rossi/Yamaha didn’t beat MM to win a title however, which is rather the point, MM having won the other 4 titles in his premier class career. I doubt it will be of particular note historically that Pedrosa as well as Stoner beat Rossi in 2007.

michaelm · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
Watch out guys, Mitchell breaks out the thesaurus.
It’s showtime!

Yes, it would appear I am engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. The thesaurus resides between my ears as it happens.

synn · Jun 15, 2018

michaelm said:
Yes, it would appear I am engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. The thesaurus resides between my ears as it happens.

That’s a good place to park it, considering all the empty space that’s there.

michaelm · Jun 15, 2018

synn said:
That’s a good place to park it, considering all the empty space that’s there.

Again, how droll. I even anticipated this would be your riposte.

I hardly need a thesaurus to debate you.

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