Shaghai Free Practice and Quali discussion

1. Colin Edwards USA Tech 3 Yamaha (M) 1min 58.139 secs
2. Valentino Rossi ITA Fiat Yamaha Team ( 1min 58.494 secs
3. Casey Stoner AUS Ducati Marlboro Team ( 1min 58.591 secs
4. Jorge Lorenzo SPA Fiat Yamaha Team (M) 1min 58.591 secs
5. Dani Pedrosa SPA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 58.855 secs
6. Loris Capirossi ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP ( 1min 58.941 secs
7. James Toseland GBR Tech 3 Yamaha (M) 1min 59.254 secs
8. Chris Vermeulen AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP ( 1min 59.325 secs
9. Randy de Puniet FRA LCR Honda MotoGP (M) 1min 59.357 secs
10. Nicky Hayden USA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 59.507 secs
11. Andrea Dovizioso ITA JiR Team Scot MotoGP (M) 1min 59.559 secs
12. Marco Melandri ITA Ducati Marlboro Team ( 1min 59.678 secs
13. Shinya Nakano JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini ( 1min 59.716 secs
14. John Hopkins USA Kawasaki Racing Team ( 1min 59.740 secs
15. Toni Elias SPA Alice Team ( 1min 59.933 secs
16. Alex de Angelis RSM San Carlo Honda Gresini ( 2min 0.316 secs
17. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Alice Team ( 2min 0.760 secs
18. Anthony West AUS Kawasaki Racing Team ( 2min 0.838 secs

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 3 2008, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>melandri on pole

Why am I not surprised from you?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dazza @ May 3 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Colin Edwards USA Tech 3 Yamaha (M) 1min 58.139 secs
2. Valentino Rossi ITA Fiat Yamaha Team ( 1min 58.494 secs
3. Casey Stoner AUS Ducati Marlboro Team ( 1min 58.591 secs
4. Jorge Lorenzo SPA Fiat Yamaha Team (M) 1min 58.591 secs
5. Dani Pedrosa SPA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 58.855 secs
6. Loris Capirossi ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP ( 1min 58.941 secs
7. James Toseland GBR Tech 3 Yamaha (M) 1min 59.254 secs
8. Chris Vermeulen AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP ( 1min 59.325 secs
9. Randy de Puniet FRA LCR Honda MotoGP (M) 1min 59.357 secs
10. Nicky Hayden USA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 59.507 secs
11. Andrea Dovizioso ITA JiR Team Scot MotoGP (M) 1min 59.559 secs
12. Marco Melandri ITA Ducati Marlboro Team ( 1min 59.678 secs
13. Shinya Nakano JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini ( 1min 59.716 secs
14. John Hopkins USA Kawasaki Racing Team ( 1min 59.740 secs
15. Toni Elias SPA Alice Team ( 1min 59.933 secs
16. Alex de Angelis RSM San Carlo Honda Gresini ( 2min 0.316 secs
17. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Alice Team ( 2min 0.760 secs
18. Anthony West AUS Kawasaki Racing Team ( 2min 0.838 secs


Thank you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 3 2008, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so? did it make a difference at the end of the year? NO. stoner still dominated when the speed advantage wasnt thereWe is talking 'bout China.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 3 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>melandri on pole

EDIT: I was fasionably late with the times

Edwards was stellar, as was Lorenzo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ May 3 2008, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We is talking 'bout China.
I had hoped that the stoner v rossi thing was over, but I am going to succumb again.

So what if the ducati is faster in a straight line whilst conforming to the rules? I have not heard even stoner, the renowned whinger/whiner, or anyone else at ducati claim that it is unfair that the yamaha handles better than the ducati, although this is fairly obviously the case.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 3 2008, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>top speed this, top speed that.

yam is just as fast as the ducati on the straights as witness last year when the yamaha over took the ducati on the straight.
You just demonstrated that you know nothing about slipstreaming. Do you know the effective of reduced drag has on a motorcycle over 300kph? I guess not...

BTW, the race will be very close tomorrow(if dry) from first to last.

^Hopefully, as I will be in attendance

[quote name='RCV600RR' post='125011' date='May 3 2008, 10:05 AM']You just demonstrated that you know nothing about slipstreaming. Do you know the effective of reduced drag has on a motorcycle over 300kph? I guess not...

The top speed advantage didn't do guintoli much good, did it? He has the fastest speed on the list of qualifying times on motogp.com.

I also agree the race will be close, at least between rossi and stoner ; I am not sure how good the michelin race tyres are.

Seeing as HEAVY rain is forecast for tommorow I'll guess West will be fast.

Jorge impressed me considering his injuries, now I just have to wait for Eurosport to show a repeat to see this 'moment' he had.

Colin, surely a pole means he'll either be last or fifth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ May 3 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Seeing as HEAVY rain is forecast for tommorow I'll guess West will be fast.

Colin, surely a pole means he'll either be last or fifth?


Yeah I think that Colin should be the random number generator not Melandri. Or to think of it, he is pretty consistent. Great in practice, fades in the race.

I hope that he doesn't but who knows. He may be motivated to show something now that an AMA return is not in the works.

Just watched qualifying - how big was the save by Lorenzo? Soooooo LUCKY not to have another huge highside.

Hero points to Lorenzo

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 3 2008, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hero points to Lorenzo

That's for sure, a real soldier there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ May 1 2008, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is no such thing as winning a title by default unless the competition fails to show up on the grid.Were there circumstances,yes,win by default,no.He did what 17 other riders could not do,he took advantage of those circumstances.The title was avaialable for everyone on the grid and he was there to grab it.Its been 2 years,get over it.

I don't have to get over anything - I wanted Nicky to win it. I'm sorry, I disagree, there is such a thing as winning a title by default. Look at Uncini in '82, and arguably Lucchinello the year before, although Nicky won a title through utter consistency, truth be told it was ultimately through the misfortune of others. Some of the other 17 as you say- notably Capirossi were simply unable to take advantage of of the opportunity which presented itself in '06 due to circumstances beyond their control. Crucially, we all know Yamaha took a wrong turn in the development of the M1, but also Nicky was not embroiled in the carnage at Catalunya, Loris was - so was Pedrosa, who let's not forget finished second in the championship. I'm convinced that had Loris not been taken out at Jerez, the title would have gone his way. No disrespect to The Kentucky Kid, he gave it his all as he always does, aquitted himself brilliantly, and was a worthy World Champion; particularly in view of the fact that he was racing with two major handicaps - his team mate, and HRC themselves (who have historically always been their own worst enemy) this time believing it would be a masterstroke to give him a dodgy clutch for half a season and an assortment of questionable parts to test at each race on top of the usual mountain of PR. The Jap plan wasn't ever for Nicky to win it, it was supposed to be Katoh's prize, and following his unfortunate demise all eyes fell on Pedrosa towards his eventual rookie year....2006! Even more reason to celebrate the fact that Hayden clinched it. Far from getting over it, I loved the outcome of what was one of the most memorable seasons ever...because being the old fart that I am, I've been following this sport for longer than I care to remember, and that's a lot of past seasons!

Wow, congrates to Colin. So wraped up in A1GP action at Brands, that I nearly forgot about Shanghai.

Colin!

Doin' Texas proud.

Lorenzo is possessed. Why would stay on the bike after all those close calls and how did he stay on the bike when it tried to crash itself.

Honda look like complete garbage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 3 2008, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't have to get over anything - I wanted Nicky to win it. I'm sorry, I disagree, there is such a thing as winning a title by default. Look at Uncini in '82, and arguably Lucchinello the year before, although Nicky won a title through utter consistency, truth be told it was ultimately through the misfortune of others. Some of the other 17 as you say- notably Capirossi were simply unable to take advantage of of the opportunity which presented itself in '06 due to circumstances beyond their control. Crucially, we all know Yamaha took a wrong turn in the development of the M1, but also Nicky was not embroiled in the carnage at Catalunya, Loris was - so was Pedrosa, who let's not forget finished second in the championship. I'm convinced that had Loris not been taken out at Jerez, the title would have gone his way. No disrespect to The Kentucky Kid, he gave it his all as he always does, aquitted himself brilliantly, and was a worthy World Champion; particularly in view of the fact that he was racing with two major handicaps - his team mate, and HRC themselves (who have historically always been their own worst enemy) this time believing it would be a masterstroke to give him a dodgy clutch for half a season and an assortment of questionable parts to test at each race on top of the usual mountain of PR. The Jap plan wasn't ever for Nicky to win it, it was supposed to be Katoh's prize, and following his unfortunate demise all eyes fell on Pedrosa towards his eventual rookie year....2006! Even more reason to celebrate the fact that Hayden clinched it. Far from getting over it, I loved the outcome of what was one of the most memorable seasons ever...because being the old fart that I am, I've been following this sport for longer than I care to remember, and that's a lot of past seasons!

Choose yor words wisely grasshopper.Read the definition.
Default:To fail to take part in or complete a scheduled contest.

I will say it again,you do not win a championship by default.You may be luckier than a .... house rat and win by circumstance, but it is clearly not by default.For anyone to win by default,the rest of the field has to not show up or only 1 bike finish the race or all the races.We are all well aware of how the 2006 season went down.It was discussed till everyone was blue in the face so we dont need a history lesson.Was Nicky lucky,depends on how you look at it.He put himself in posistion to win,and won,bottom line.I just watched a Nascar race where the guy running 3rd with 4 laps to go won because the top 2 took each other out.Did he win by default?NO .Was he lucky or fortunate,of course he was but he didnt win by default.

The top speed advantage didn't do guintoli much good, did it? He has the fastest speed on the list of qualifying times on motogp.com.

I also agree the race will be close, at least between rossi and stoner ; I am not sure how good the michelin race tyres are.
--------

Please read more carefully; I wasn't discussing how influential top speeds are(or were).

I was refuting his comment, which mistakenly asserted that at Shanghai '07, the Yamaha M1 was equally as fast as the Desmosedici GP7. His idiotic justification was 'because Rossi passed Stoner on the straight'.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 4 2008, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm convinced that had Loris not been taken out at Jerez, the title would have gone his way. No disrespect to The Kentucky Kid, he gave it his all as he always does, aquitted himself brilliantly, and was a worthy World Champion; particularly in view of the fact that he was racing with two major handicaps - his team mate, and HRC themselves (who have historically always been their own worst enemy) this time believing it would be a masterstroke to give him a dodgy clutch for half a season and an assortment of questionable parts to test at each race on top of the usual mountain of PR. The Jap plan wasn't ever for Nicky to win it, it was supposed to be Katoh's prize, and following his unfortunate demise all eyes fell on Pedrosa towards his eventual rookie year....2006!

We are aware of the circumstances of 2006, but we all watched Nicky deal with those circumstances better than anyone else and thats what winning the world championship is. You can speculate that if certain things hadn't have happened then the result would be different, but thats entirely speculative and it is just as possible that the result would have been identical, or even that Nicky could have won it more convincingly. Ultimately it doesn't matter

Also if HRC didn't want Nicky to win in 2006 he would never have been riding the bike which was designed specifically to beat Rossi. Im sure HRC's long term plan featured Katoh but by the time 2006 rolled around i would inagine the plan was changed to suit the possibilities.