Sepang Winter Test

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Feb 6 2008, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Or think of when Lorenzo makes his first pass on Pedrosa in a Race (anger)....Dani will have to toughen up otherwise he will end up as 'Hobbit Rhubard with birds custard crumble'

YES.
I expect a BIG Pedrosa-Lorenzo Spanish rivalry similar to the Rossi-Biaggi Italian one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 6 2008, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure he's dropped some pounds... Stoners not a big guy, and Dani is a midget.
It's a disadvantage to be a NORMAL sized MAN in Moto GP at the mo.


1. Valentino Rossi ITA Fiat Yamaha Team ( 2min 0.472 secs
2. Nicky Hayden USA Repsol Honda Team (M) 2min 0.900 secs
3. Shinya Nakano JPN Honda Gresini ( 2min 2.049 secs
4. Jorge Lorenzo SPA Fiat Yamaha Team (M) 2min 2.396 secs
5. Alex de Angelis RSM Honda Gresini ( 2min 2.646 secs
6. Olivier Jacque FRA Kawasaki Test Rider ( 2min 3.513 secs
7. Bike 'T' JPN Yamaha Test Rider ( 2min 5.647 secs
8. Tamaki Serizawa JPN Kawasaki Test Rider ( 2min 6.027 secs
9. Bike 'P' JPN Yamaha Test Rider ( 2min 6.244 secs

I don't get how you decide who has the cool glasses or not, I mean WTF?? Can you please explain?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Feb 7 2008, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>YES.
I expect a BIG Pedrosa-Lorenzo Spanish rivalry similar to the Rossi-Biaggi Italian one.

I agree - really looking forward to these 2 guys on Factory bikes over the next few years.
I got a feeling we are going to enjoy the press statements.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 6 2008, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't get how you decide who has the cool glasses or not, I mean WTF?? Can you please explain?
I think it was unintentional. Sometimes when you cut and past something, the combination of symbols like ";" ":" ")" "B” appears as emotioncons like

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Feb 6 2008, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree - really looking forward to these 2 guys on Factory bikes over the next few years.
I got a feeling we are going to enjoy the press statements.
Personally, I would love to see Pedrosa & Lorentho take eachother out on the track. Can you imagine trying to pass eachother, I think their big head and egos would get in the way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>oh was that the only difference between 250's and 800cc machines!! I had this warped idea that there may have been a few other minor differences, but now you put it so well I can see the whole point ...

now I can see the reasoning ....

Stoner goes to motogp and wins ....... so whats the difference between a motogp bike and a 250???

Its the TC!! .... that must be the answer!! ...... which we all know he has setup in such a manner that the onboard radar and GPS finds DP and Rossi and increases the Duc.s Speed to win at all costs .... at the same time ...... never letting any throttle inputs from Stoner get to the engine ..... and at the same time injecting him with a trickle of Sodium Pentathol to make him remain unconscious, hence keeping him on the bike .... to make it look like he won ...... even though we really know that Rossi really won and Dani a close second!!

no sense arguing whether or not it was Dani or Rossi who really came first with me though .... its your dream .... not mine


Wow whats all these coloured spirals and flashing lights I can see while I'm thinking like an anti-Stoner fan ......


Hey mmman!! I just had a wicked dream!! ..... there was this rule passed that said motogp riders can just turn off TC and go back to 250 class .... on their non-TC motogp machine .... cos they are all the same then ....... ha! watch out Stoner ..... Rossi and DP are going to start from the 250 race and ride right through to win both the 250 and motogp now the rules are fixed ...... awww mmmmaaaaannn!!! hows that guys name!!! S - T - O - N - E - R .... wow that guys got a cool name ..... I'm going for him ..... man that red armdillo he is riding is faaast!!! . ...... hey slow down mmmaaannn!! I can't see you sometimes!!!



Ok I'll snap out of it ... I'd like to argue that I don't think TC is the only thing that is different between 125/250 and motogp .... and indeed that all riders adapt in different ways to the change. Some riders cope better with the extra HP and weight, and 4 stroke engines, and the size difference, and the difference in CG, and gyro action of bigger shafts etc. and the wider tyres etc. etc. Do you think maybe some of those things do bear a slight consideration even .... in the reasoning for you post?


Hey Barry why don't you take your color Stoner glasses off just once and read the whole paragraph again. I said things do change and we will see when the Honda is up to the challage. Name one thing that i wrote that seemed like i wanted to make this a Stoner vs Rossi arguement.

If you have access to Motogo.com why don't you check out what i said. I cant remember which race was it but DPs throttle control look smoother than Stoner( My opinion) of course). Imma try to find it while you continue to make your claim that Stoner is better than Dani cuase he beat him last season while Dani beat him how many times before?

Oh another thing, what do you think of the rookies saying that a motogp bike is easier to ride then their 250 bike?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Barry why don't you take your color Stoner glasses off

No way!! they are still looking good at present!! .... what do you want me to look like a loser!! maybe in 08 I will discard them but for now .... no way!! they are the latest fad!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Name one thing that i wrote that seemed like i wanted to make this a Stoner vs Rossi arguement.


Well even if I did say you did ......

I thought I did name it already!!?? which is TC .... but really I do think its a bit "raw" to say have Stoner not have TC and let all the others proceed with it ...... what I did try to point out was that there are a lot more factors than just possibly TC as an explanation as to why Stoner "whooped ..." over your version of a "real rider".




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I cant remember which race was it but DPs throttle control look smoother than Stoner( My opinion) of course). Imma try to find it while you continue to make your claim that Stoner is better than Dani cuase he beat him last season while Dani beat him how many times before?

Yes but whether Dani or Stoner had the "smoothest" throttle control seems to be a mute point as clearly whatever Stoner was doing, with his throttle hand, was the way to go in 07 ...... therefore better




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh another thing, what do you think of the rookies saying that a motogp bike is easier to ride then their 250 bike?

Well who said that show me the quotes .... and I will look at who said it .... how they have performed/perform ..... and then decide whether being an "easyrider" is the way to go when winning WC's



PS. I actually have high hopes for Pedrosa in 08 ...... he was looking good at end 07 and subsequent tests .... except for the injury. So I wouldn't condemn me too quickly, over my current affliction of "Stoner coloured glasses", as I may be donning the Pedrosa coloured glasses in 08 ..... if indeed he proves to be the "man of the hour". And if Stoner has copped such a lot of crap in 07 .... imagine how the folks out there are going to take to Pedrosa as WC!!! .... he's going to need all the fans he can get ...... even "fly by nighters" like me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh another thing, what do you think of the rookies saying that a motogp bike is easier to ride then their 250 bike?

Obviously they are unexperienced so their view doesn't count, or more likely they are Rossi fans to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 7 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Obviously they are unexperienced so their view doesn't count, or more likely they are Rossi fans to.

Are you sure "they" said this though??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 7 2008, 03:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you sure "they" said this though??


Dovi quote.
"I found the RC212V easier to ride than my 250, the electronics control things very well," declared the Italian. "The power is good but there's not too much like the older 990cc bike, which I tried back in 2004. People ask about the difference between the 250 and the 800. The biggest thing is the completely different way the power comes in: with the 250 the power is high in the rev-range, with the 800 there is power everywhere.

"The electronics make a big difference. On every corner I can fully open the throttle and the traction control handles it – even on a bike with more than 100bhp more than my 250! If I did that on a 250 I would go flying in the air and it would hurt!" he smiled.



So what do you think are the electronics helping them or not? I specially like the part that i highlighted in bold. Do you think this is whats slowing down the 990 riders like Cappi, Melandri, Hopkins, Vermulen, Nacano, Edwards????? Think about it none of these riders were a threat last season. Yet Dani and Stoner were great.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So what do you think are the electronics helping them or not?


I think Dovi himself has answered that:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (esco @ Feb 7 2008, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If I did that on a 250 I would go flying in the air and it would hurt!" he smiled.

So the TC helps him not fall off. And as we all know it does that by attempting to lower the power being called for at critical times. But to go fast the rider has to learn how to overcome that situation .... thats the bit it seems that Stoner has worked out .... perhaaps it has to do with the way he heads deeper into a corner then turns tighter at one spot then picks the bike more upright on the way out..... gets the bike off the side of the tyre and more onto that good central contact point ???

Dovi didn't say the TC makes me faster though did he? or indeed nor did he venture to suggest he would be faster without it.


On the 800 being more suited to Pedrosa and Stoner than a 990 ... yes I do think it is.

But I don't think thats due to TC as the 990's had TC as well, but I think folk are misreading a sideline effect of going to 800's .... ie. they aren't as much of a beast as the 990. Perhaps that explains why folk are blaming TC when in reality there has been a huge drop in cc's that would have had a greater effect than any programmed TC system. Indeed if the programmers had there system worked out well the TC system and program should have easily have swapped over from a 990 to an 800. The only thing that changed was the available power and torque and under good grip conditions, the manner in which the power was applied. In fact I would have thought TC was working much harder on the old 990's. It just meant that tyre grip was more critical on the 990's. Hence why corner speeds were lower on the 990's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 7 2008, 05:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow whats all these coloured spirals and flashing lights I can see while I'm thinking like an anti-Stoner fan ......

Hey mmman!! I just had a wicked dream!! ..... there was this rule passed that said motogp riders can just turn off TC and go back to 250 class .... on their non-TC motogp machine .... cos they are all the same then ....... ha! watch out Stoner ..... Rossi and DP are going to start from the 250 race and ride right through to win both the 250 and motogp now the rules are fixed ...... awww mmmmaaaaannn!!! hows that guys name!!! S - T - O - N - E - R .... wow that guys got a cool name ..... I'm going for him ..... man that red armdillo he is riding is faaast!!! . ...... hey slow down mmmaaannn!! I can't see you sometimes!!!
Ah, that possibly explains some of your more long-winded posts which don't appear to answer the question that was actually asked....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 7 2008, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But I don't think thats due to TC as the 990's had TC as well, but I think folk are misreading a sideline effect of going to 800's .... ie. they aren't as much of a beast as the 990. Perhaps that explains why folk are blaming TC when in reality there has been a huge drop in cc's that would have had a greater effect than any programmed TC system. Indeed if the programmers had there system worked out well the TC system and program should have easily have swapped over from a 990 to an 800. The only thing that changed was the available power and torque and under good grip conditions, the manner in which the power was applied. In fact I would have thought TC was working much harder on the old 990's. It just meant that tyre grip was more critical on the 990's. Hence why corner speeds were lower on the 990's.
OK Barry, one more round.

You obviously have no real understanding of how the electronic aids actually work if you can make a series of statements like this. Or maybe you think us "dyed-in-the-wool Rossi fans" really are thick.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The manufacturers were trying to tame 990cc beasts before now they have all the same technology to control a relative ..... cat of an 800. The less power you have the easier it is to control.

The electronics "program" did swap over to 800s incredibly easily and had much more effect on the less powerful bikes. Add to that the fact that, as the electronics is unregulated, developments have continued apace since the demise of the 990s, eg engine maps per corner rather than just per gear.

That is why many people (not just Rossi or people on this forum) have either been complaining that the electronic aids are affecting the balance between bike and rider (years ago Burgess said 20%/80%), or like Dovisioso are commenting that the 800s are surprisingly "easy" to ride in comparison to what they expected after 250s. Now, given the fact that no-one before 2008 has moved from 250s to the top class and made this kind of statement, either Dovi et al are ....... amazing riders, or the 800s with their electronic aids are actually pussycats.

I tempi finali:

1. Lorenzo (Yamaha-Fiat) 2.00.705 al 72° (73)
2. Rossi (Yamaha-Fiat) 2.01.190 al 23° (48 giri)
3. Nakano (Honda-Gresini) 2.02.135 al 14° (23)
4. De Angelis (Honda-Gresini) 2.02.193 al 12° (20)
5. Jacque (Kawasaki) 2.03.021 al 17° (50)
6. Serizawa (Kawasaki) 2.03.623 al 29° (31)
7. Yamaha Test Team P 2.06.000 al 26° (27)
8. Yamaha Test Team T 2.06.040 al 28° (44)


I tempi alle ore 16: (ora locale)

1. Rossi (Yamaha-Fiat) 2.01.190 al 23° (48 giri)
2. Nakano (Honda-Gresini) 2.02.135 al 14° (23)
3. De Angelis (Honda-Gresini) 2.02.193 al 12° (20)
4. Lorenzo (Yamaha-Fiat) 2.02.425 al 29° (45)
5. Jacque (Kawasaki) 2.03.021 al 17° (50)
6. Serizawa (Kawasaki) 2.03.623 al 29° (31)
7. Yamaha Test Team P 2.06.000 al 26° (27)
8. Yamaha Test Team T 2.06.040 al 28° (44)


As sarto said, Rossi's long run does look pretty competitive wth Stoner's from two weeks ago

Il mini run di Stoner del 24/01/2008:

1. 2.01.940
2. - 2.01.865
3. - 2.01.584
4. - 2.01.910
5. - 2.01.693
6. - 2.13.140
7. - 2.01.570
8. - 2.01.510

Of course the track temps and conditions will vary, and this is only testing, but still looking promising for close racing between those two this season.

- Lorenzo (Yamaha-Fiat) 2.00.705 on Michelin Qs

- Hayden (Repsol-Honda) 2.00.900 on Michelin Qs

Looks like the 250 world champion can put the hammer down when needed...and there seems to be very little wrong with that new M1.

I am looking to seeing Jorge putting it on the front row once or twice, and getting a good start with the Legend and the Champion!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 6 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't get how you decide who has the cool glasses or not, I mean WTF?? Can you please explain?

Thats easy..all the Bridgestone runners


No it's the way the smilies are set up here in the forum..

( it's actually this without the spaces ( B )


B+)=

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 7 2008, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, that possibly explains some of your more long-winded posts which don't appear to answer the question that was actually asked....


Yes I thought that would make sense to you

Well I answered the question to the best of my ability, so if you didn't "get it" perhaps the fault is at your end

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 7 2008, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes I thought that would make sense to you

Well I answered the question to the best of my ability, so if you didn't "get it" perhaps the fault is at your end
Presumably the fault is also at my end when you cherry-pick which posts to answer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Feb 7 2008, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OK Barry, one more round.

You obviously have no real understanding of how the electronic aids actually work if you can make a series of statements like this. Or maybe you think us "dyed-in-the-wool Rossi fans" really are thick.

How the hell do you get that from the two quotes you posted?? I'm starting to think you are right with the thick bit

Do you reckon the resulting effect of TC is not like that? If so fill me in on what you believe it does ... cos you have me "stumped" now, I gave you no explanation of "how it works" there, just a reported comparison of the effect on the two capacities
Don't know where that second quote is from ( its not titled ) but it says virtually the same thing, so what is your point? .... that what I said backs it up ??