There’s this idea that the RCV hasn’t changed nurmerous times since Marquez started in 2013. The 2016 and 2017 bike needed to be ridden with as much corner speed as possible because oh how bad the acceleration was. 2017 was better than 2016. We’ve seen Marquez hold the same kind of corner speed that Lorenzo famously used. He doesn’t do a Lorenzo imitation when he holds the corner speed but he is more than capable of matching Lorenzos famous corner speed as we have seen at various times.
There’s this idea that the RCV hasn’t changed nurmerous times since Marquez started in 2013. The 2016 and 2017 bike needed to be ridden with as much corner speed as possible because oh how bad the acceleration was. 2017 was better than 2016. We’ve seen Marquez hold the same kind of corner speed that Lorenzo famously used. He doesn’t do a Lorenzo imitation when he holds the corner speed but he is more than capable of matching Lorenzos famous corner speed as we have seen at various times.
Joined Nov 2015
872 Posts | 420+
Stratosphere
Lol! Maybe Gui can ‘splain me my national heritage in one sentence too. There is nothing I love more than being reduced to a two dimensional cultural stereotype.
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Joined Jan 2020
12 Posts | 1+
canada
I do enjoy hearing all of the opinions of why the competition falling short. It seems so nonsensical to hear people saying that "Dovi doesn't have the same passion ", "Jorge has been mentally broken and he's down and out (then almost wins the title)", "Rossi's age has made him scared on the bike", "Vinales has Marc rattled and thats why he's crashing out". I like Dovi, and agree that he doesn't have that extra 1%, but I don't think it has to do with his mental toughness or will to win. Marc is just flat out better, plain and simple. He will take wins out of him, but will never beat him over a season. The masses seem so quickly to dismiss people that are the closest competitors because they couldn't get it done. By that rationale should we see a whole new cast of riders other than Marc this year since they "couldn't get it done"?
Joined May 2019
607 Posts | 459+
Where I am.
Well, it's a competition of both bike and rider, isn't it? Hopefully, the relative bike performance between teams will change enough to upset the pecking order of late. Ducati doesn't seem to be doing so well after the last test. Yamaha seems to have made a small step forward.
I've been watching a video of this Sepang test and got to realize something, take a look below. Could Ducati be using the "holeshot" device to not only start but also to get out of corners? Look at Dovi and Jack compared to Pecco, it's not something normal.
The video is this and these takes are at about 20:50:
The video is this and these takes are at about 20:50:
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Sep 2016
38 Posts | 20+
A winding country road.
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ducati-holeshot-device-tech-breakthrough/4679822/
scroll down a few paragraphs, Alex Rins made a comment etc
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Yes, the difficulty of the task of beating MM is hard to over-estimate. If Dovi is the modern day equivalent of Randy Mamola that does not exactly make him chopped liver.
I do wonder how much longer the MM show goes on though. This latest shoulder thing is no joke, and he looks like starting the season incompletely recovered from the injury and surgery and I am not sure how much longer his body can last given his extreme riding style.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
If I understand correctly - the latest surgery was preventative in nature. Shoulders in general, like knees - have limits as regards multiple repairs. Having been through multiple rotator cuff injuries in both shoulders as well as an A/B separation in the left it’s pretty remarkable how much strength and normal functionality I retain, even if range is somewhat limited. And I’m twice his age. But if Marquez is continually popping out of his sockets he’s going to need to take a seat on the Yamaha to make that magic 10th, assuming that’s his agenda.
I agree with the fact people will eventually need to adapt his riding style, but I feel like he tends to keep his cards close to his chest. Last season he made it seem as if he was down and out, but that turned out to be embarrassing for everyone. I'm afraid he will have a career ending injury with his current level of aggression. Something similar to Spies, where if he wants to lift his arms, he needs to stop riding bikes. Then again its quite possible he's been told this already and chooses to ignore the advice in quest of glory. I feel bad to think of what some of modern athletes will be like in 20-30 years time. They push harder than the generation before them to the point of no return physically.
I may be misinformed, I thought he suffered yet another shoulder injury unnecessarily trying to prove something against FQ late last season. I think you may be the exception in having such good results from multiple shoulder surgeries, and you are not riding bikes to the extremes he does these days although I know you have raced extensively in the past.
I think testing the limits of his bike in practice by crashing it is a young man’s method, and he does intersperse those usually on the low impact side of things crashes with the occasional massive high side. One of the reasons Stoner who had a similarly out there riding style retired at a similar age to MM’s current age was I believe a concern he might end up with permanent physical impairment, and I think that crash he had in the Suzuka race after he retired from MotoGP confirmed his view.
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
To be sure - I wouldn’t imply any direct comparison between me and Marquez. I BTW never had corrective surgeries for my injuries because insurance might pay for it - but I couldn’t afford to take time off from work to do rehab and recuperation. Back then of course nobody did fitness training either. Today - despite injuries and being a geezer, I still ride the paint off my lightweight supermotos, less so my Adv bike.
My point was merely that with superior contemporary surgical techniques and Marquez’s highly developed musculature and relative youth The odds on a 10th seem championship seem better than those for Doohan’s last one; a thing many bet against.
Re: permanent damage, just a gut feeling - I don’t think MM gives much thought to that.
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Joined Feb 2020
979 Posts | 1K+
Bendigo Vic
MM seemed to do ok last year in a similar condition.
I think he will be fine this year.
With respect to his risk of injury, yes he rides the bike over the limit and sliding.
We have never seen a rider as capable of recovering a front end slide.
Most of his crashes have been off the front end however that was reduced last year.
More power meant he was not forced to recover so much ground on braking and corner entry.
We will see this year. I personally hope to see that sublime bike control again, but I hope he stays upright.
At least one of the test crashes I read he didn't have the shoulder strength to save it.
It is improving.
Sepang is a great circuit for the sharp handling inline fours but it seems they have made a step and like the new rear tyre.
Can't wait for the season to start.
I think he will be fine this year.
With respect to his risk of injury, yes he rides the bike over the limit and sliding.
We have never seen a rider as capable of recovering a front end slide.
Most of his crashes have been off the front end however that was reduced last year.
More power meant he was not forced to recover so much ground on braking and corner entry.
We will see this year. I personally hope to see that sublime bike control again, but I hope he stays upright.
At least one of the test crashes I read he didn't have the shoulder strength to save it.
It is improving.
Sepang is a great circuit for the sharp handling inline fours but it seems they have made a step and like the new rear tyre.
Can't wait for the season to start.
IIRC the surgery wasn’t because of an injury. Just a proactive type of surgery. I’ve had a shoulder reconstruction and I don’t think that these surgeries will impact Marquez in any meaningful way once he has recovered.
I think he is very likely to get the 9th, and quite likely the 10th. The 15th I am not so confident about the way he rides.
I am not so sure about repetitive shoulder re- constructions on premier class MotoGP riders, particularly if they continue to fall off their bikes. I agree he won’t have any concern about limited shoulder movement or whatever post-career, one of the differences between him and Stoner. I am a Stoner fanboy obviously, but considered him to be close to equally fearless on track but rather more contemplative off-track, hence some of his abreactions in interviews post race when his adrenaline levels had dropped.
I am not so sure about repetitive shoulder re- constructions on premier class MotoGP riders, particularly if they continue to fall off their bikes. I agree he won’t have any concern about limited shoulder movement or whatever post-career, one of the differences between him and Stoner. I am a Stoner fanboy obviously, but considered him to be close to equally fearless on track but rather more contemplative off-track, hence some of his abreactions in interviews post race when his adrenaline levels had dropped.
Funny you say this as I had a similar train of thought re: his potential future. There's no denying MM93's ability on a bike, but am I the only one who thinks a title win on another manufacturer would just further add to his legend?
Unless he won on a KTM or Aprilia it doesn’t do that much IMO. Ducati has had the best bike for the last few years, though I believe Yamaha may have been the best last year despite what others think. Yamaha is the second most successful factory of all time so does it really matter, their riders are always competitive even on satellite machines. Suzuki is similar to Yamaha.
Riding a flawed bike that no one else can consistently ride fast including a 5 time world champion is more impressive than winning on a Ducati or Yamaha IMO.
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