Sepang Malaysia Test Thread

[povol]

Nice... But that was in fact hearsay, as opposed to credible information. Absolutely nobody in Italy has suggested that Honda might be breaking the rules, as is evident also from this comment by GpOne on the original article:



"[font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]An internet dispute has broken out over an article on website Sportmediaset, which suggests that a DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) is being used by Honda to improve the performance of their RC212V.[/font][font="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, sans-serif"]The article makes reference to a bike being produced by the Japanese manufacturer, saying,"Since they have a production bike with a Dual Clutch Transmission, nearly identical to the automotive version being used by Audi and Porsche, logically we can imagine that this technology has transferred over to their race bikes."



This could be an interesting theory, except for the fact that DCT technology is forbidden under MotoGP regulations.



To find out more, we spoke with the author of the article, Alberto Porta, who defended his information.



"It seems as though Honda has introduced a new type of clutch which benefits from the knowledge gained with the DCT, but which also conforms to the rules."



This would mean a completely new design/technology which offers the same advantages as the outlawed system, but does so in a less complex fashion. True or false? It will be the competition who renders a swift verdict."



[/font]

If he had just said that in the first place. But no, he left a little room for insinuation, and little room to crayfish when the .... storm arrived. ....... journalist

 

[Goatboy]

Are they so sure it's going to work that they can leave it a while, or unconvinced and being careful not to commit to any one direction?

Surely if they aren't trying it then thery are commiting to one direction? I find it hard to believe that with testing being so thin on the ground these days that they would waste a day. Effectively two days now if Nicky hasn't tried it.

This would mean a completely new design/technology which offers the same advantages as the outlawed system, but does so in a less complex fashion.

& that is why they call them prototypes, it's the kind of innovation they all should be commiting too. If it's true.

 

[Lebowski]

Absolutely right Goatboy.

 

[dwoodhouse]

So, if Ducati haven't started using this flex package yet then i'd be interested in why? Are they so sure it's going to work that they can leave it a while, or unconvinced and being careful not to commit to any one direction?



There is one thing we can take for amusement though: JB's 80 second fix to the Ducati setup problem has taken at 7 days of testing so far and the only notable change is that Nicky Hayden has lost ground.....

I think it makes sense to get the "fitting" done prior to making the big changes. It takes variables out of the equation so that when the new gear is tested, the focus can solely be on whether or not that provides a benefit. I think this is a positive thing for the Ducati team that they haven't made the big changes yet and are seeing an improvement in Rossi. Incidentally, if you remember last year - Casey was forever turning the bike upside down each week trying to find the right setting. It was only once they changed his riding position to compensate for the slight reduction in movement in one wrist that he came good.



Hayden on the other hand - I'm not sure what he is testing or why he is so far down. I would have at least thought that even if Rossi hadn't tested the new stuff yet, Hayden should have.



They didn't plan on Rossi being sick so they are now going to have to get a whole lot more out of the today even though once again he won't be 100%. Given the tight testing timeframes and what they need to achieve, some things will probably not get tested at Sepang.



It is probably a little premature but Honda appears to have finally nailed it with a few bugs whereas Yamaha is once again down on power (if you listen to Lorenzo) and Ducati is still trying to come out of the wilderness. I think Pedrosa will beat Stoner regularly this year. He is a very fast little midget - his problem is consistancy and not falling off when the bike isn't quite right. I guess the same could have been said for Stoner last year so maybe this year will be a coin toss with Stoner as favourite.



I don't rate Yamaha's chances. Their bike can be the best handling, most stable thing in the world but if it is too underpowered, it won't get up. Last year it wasn't too underpowered for the first half of the season, at the end, the Hondas were stronger until Dani got injured. This year, it looks like the bike may be underpowered from the start such that the handling gains won't make up for its power deficiency. It's also hard to guage how much power is really there until the bikes are mapped for race distance and race fuel. Last year, the Hondas didn't lose speed, the Yamahas did. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[dgmlance]

I think it makes sense to get the "fitting" done prior to making the big changes. It takes variables out of the equation so that when the new gear is tested, the focus can solely be on whether or not that provides a benefit. I think this is a positive thing for the Ducati team that they haven't made the big changes yet and are seeing an improvement in Rossi. Incidentally, if you remember last year - Casey was forever turning the bike upside down each week trying to find the right setting. It was only once they changed his riding position to compensate for the slight reduction in movement in one wrist that he came good.



Hayden on the other hand - I'm not sure what he is testing or why he is so far down. I would have at least thought that even if Rossi hadn't tested the new stuff yet, Hayden should have.



They didn't plan on Rossi being sick so they are now going to have to get a whole lot more out of the today even though once again he won't be 100%. Given the tight testing timeframes and what they need to achieve, some things will probably not get tested at Sepang.



It is probably a little premature but Honda appears to have finally nailed it with a few bugs whereas Yamaha is once again down on power (if you listen to Lorenzo) and Ducati is still trying to come out of the wilderness. I think Pedrosa will beat Stoner regularly this year. He is a very fast little midget - his problem is consistancy and not falling off when the bike isn't quite right. I guess the same could have been said for Stoner last year so maybe this year will be a coin toss with Stoner as favourite.



I don't rate Yamaha's chances. Their bike can be the best handling, most stable thing in the world but if it is too underpowered, it won't get up. Last year it wasn't too underpowered for the first half of the season, at the end, the Hondas were stronger until Dani got injured. This year, it looks like the bike may be underpowered from the start such that the handling gains won't make up for its power deficiency. It's also hard to guage how much power is really there until the bikes are mapped for race distance and race fuel. Last year, the Hondas didn't lose speed, the Yamahas did. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Woody, good post. I do agree with you on the Yamaha's, I was hoping that they would find some power to be able to keep up with the Honda overall but it looks like Honda have absolutely nailed things when it comes overall performance. Ben Spies is still surprising in his capability that he has displayed coming from WSB into GP and delivering such a strong performance.



I dont think Hayden is going to deliver much more than 5th or 6th position throughout the season. It might be lower if "Big Hair" Simoncelli carries on showing good form and can stop people passing him by sticking his knees out. Rossi is going to have a tough time getting past the Yammy's if his bike throws him off half as much as what Stoner was last year. If he can get the stability and right blend of power and cornering then he could easily displace his former team to take on the Honda's but this all depends on his shoulder recovery and what testing he can do tomorrow.



Regardless of how good the Honda's are it all comes down to how things work out on race day. Rossi & Lorenzo were able to prove that with bikes that on paper were not up to scratch in power compared to the Honda's but consistent wins and a lack of mistakes kept them winning races and taking titles in previous years.



The testing is just that testing and in the end the best indication of how the season will develop will only show after the first 3 races of which I am excluding Qatar. It will also depend on who makes what mistakes and if the Honda team can play nice to deny positions to other riders.



I thought last year would have been an exciting year but Rossi injuring himself and Stoner chucking his bike every race made Lorenzo's job a lot easier. As always with GP it is a dangerous sport with a lot of what ifs....i just hope it will be a season that will have awesome racing. I still get chills when thinking of the Rossi-Stoner battle at Laguna!

 

[Mental Anarchist]

Isn't it interesting that the greatest bike developer the world has ever seen is still trying to get his position on the bike right. That's right after 7 days or 6 due to his tummy ache and 300 or so laps they are still playing with body position.



Well I call a massive ........ on that one.



After 7 .... oh sorry 6 days due to a tummy ache he hasn't tried any of the new parts that the smallest factory in MotoGP worked right through Christmas to produce and the test team spent many days testing.



Well I call a MASSIVE ........ on that one too.



In my opinion what we are really seeing is that the great developer has no idea what to do with a bike that has fundamental flaws to make it better. I also think that there has been a huge backlash against Ducati for suggesting a change of the DNA of the bike is required or will happen so that "Rossi can be Rossi". This is why they are using terms like "Ducati Settings".



Didn't we hear right from the outset when Rossi signed that he was signed because he is a great developer? Well they paid $15 mill euro for that skill. They didn't pay that to get some one who could just win on it as they already had that for far less money. So to sell us the ........ that in 7 days (sorry 6) that they have not tried any new parts is down right rude and insulting. Some of you fanboi's may want to drink that koolaid but I would rather eat .....



Now lets look at one small additional point. Where are all the other Ducati's? After all, the great developer was going to turn the bike into something that everybody could ride. Looks to me like they are all languishing at the back of the grid. The great developer has even managed to wash off any speed Hayden had and the speed that DePuniet displayed at the first test.



Now the koolaid drinkers will say that he has only had 7 (sorry 6) days and it takes time. Well he is the greatest and they did publicly suggest that they could do it in a very short time frame. Next they will say when Rossi goes faster, which I believe he will as he will ride around the problems (mmm sounds familar), yet the other Ducati riders languish at the back, that it is not Rossi's job to develop the bike for others!!!

 

[J4rn0]

Wait, all this sounds sooo familiar... can this be you... Jummental?!

 

[Talpa]

Isn't it interesting that the greatest bike developer the world has ever seen is still trying to get his position on the bike right. That's right after 7 days or 6 due to his tummy ache and 300 or so laps they are still playing with body position.



Well I call a massive ........ on that one.



After 7 .... oh sorry 6 days due to a tummy ache he hasn't tried any of the new parts that the smallest factory in MotoGP worked right through Christmas to produce and the test team spent many days testing.



Well I call a MASSIVE ........ on that one too.



In my opinion what we are really seeing is that the great developer has no idea what to do with a bike that has fundamental flaws to make it better. I also think that there has been a huge backlash against Ducati for suggesting a change of the DNA of the bike is required or will happen so that "Rossi can be Rossi". This is why they are using terms like "Ducati Settings".



Didn't we hear right from the outset when Rossi signed that he was signed because he is a great developer? Well they paid $15 mill euro for that skill. They didn't pay that to get some one who could just win on it as they already had that for far less money. So to sell us the ........ that in 7 days (sorry 6) that they have not tried any new parts is down right rude and insulting. Some of you fanboi's may want to drink that koolaid but I would rather eat .....



Now lets look at one small additional point. Where are all the other Ducati's? After all, the great developer was going to turn the bike into something that everybody could ride. Looks to me like they are all languishing at the back of the grid. The great developer has even managed to wash off any speed Hayden had and the speed that DePuniet displayed at the first test.



Now the koolaid drinkers will say that he has only had 7 (sorry 6) days and it takes time. Well he is the greatest and they did publicly suggest that they could do it in a very short time frame. Next they will say when Rossi goes faster, which I believe he will as he will ride around the problems (mmm sounds familar), yet the other Ducati riders languish at the back, that it is not Rossi's job to develop the bike for others!!!

...



























No 1- Imbecile

 

[is200]

I have to say this test has been pretty ominous. I expected Rossi to be a bit further up, however I do have confidence that he will be up fighting for podiums come round 1, but wins, im not so sure.



What Casey can do on a bike blows my mind, just after christmas I went cycling with him. He was in town and I took him on one of my regular cycling loops, up through the hills he was in another planet and i could not hold his wheel no matter how much I tried, but the most amazing thing was when we were decending.



I ride this particular descent every weekend, its about 8km's and starts around 700m above sea level and ends at around 50m. Case had never rode it before, he did not know the road, what was around the corners, how sharp they were etc... I was on the MY limit, trying to 'impress' with my handling abilities! Pft I was so schooled. I was coming into hairpins and breaking as late as i thought possible, rear wheel just about lifting and Casey was litterally peddaling around the outside of me. Physics suggested to me that those lines, speeds and lean angles on a push bike were impossible. Clearly not the case.



Sure its not a motor bike etc... but the point was made to me in ways that is hard to articulate. All of those riders are insane, but I truly believe Casey has a notch above all the rest of them. Yes I agree that there is more to a champion than just speed, but I think these early tests, his ability to just jump on the Honda and go quick re-enforces what many thought of his time at Ducatti.

 

[news1213]

I would rather eat .....

 

[michaelm]

double

 

[michaelm]

Never mind Crash.net, but also according to Furusawa CF is too stiff (even at its softest) for motorcycle applications. I have immense respect for Furusawa, and for his honesty (I do not think he'd say that if he didn't believe it). I would not be surprised if the first big change on the Ducati be the ditching of the CF in favor of aluminum -- Preziosi is on record saying they will stick to CF, but the man is also very pragmatic.

Stoner is a rider of unparalleled guts and speed, and we all love him for that. He may lack something in sensitivity, which could explain why he loves an extra stiff bike and is prone to push the limit a bit too much. On the other hand, that may be an advantage as long as the bike can take his punishment without going wheels up.

Whether he likes chassis stiffness and/or sets up the current chassis too stiffly and this preference contributes to front end loses etc is one question. However, whilst he may have asked for the chassis to be improved, my point was that it is fairly unlikely he had much or anything do with ducati's current carbon-fibre non-frame etc chassis philosophy, having not finished high school let alone engineering at university; I believe this was engineering led in response to the trellis frame steel chassis being perceived as obsolete, input from ducati's F1 connections, a desire to remain distinctive compared to the japanese manufacturers etc.



As you say furosawa is likely to have an informed perspective and as has been discussed requirements for race bikes are quite different than those for race cars and this direction may be a wrong one, but I am not sure the jury is entirely out, and perhaps ducati has taken this direction too early before it has been worked out how to tune carbon fibre for stiffness, which apparently can be done, in this application. The carbon fibre chassis did not seem to work too badly when stoner was healthyin 2009 at some tracks at least, although the bike appeared to continue to turn poorly as with the previous chassis. I think there must have been some other added problem for the 2010 bike; they did change to the big bang engine for one thing, which as barry says may have changed how the bike handles/grips, and perhaps last year's bridgestones did not suit either. It has been said they could go back to the screamer and other changes they made between 2009 and 2010 could also be looked at . I suspect there is a chance of a different chassis design next year though.

 

[BarryMachine]

I have to say this test has been pretty ominous. I expected Rossi to be a bit further up, however I do have confidence that he will be up fighting for podiums come round 1, but wins, im not so sure.



What Casey can do on a bike blows my mind, just after christmas I went cycling with him. He was in town and I took him on one of my regular cycling loops, up through the hills he was in another planet and i could not hold his wheel no matter how much I tried, but the most amazing thing was when we were decending.



I ride this particular descent every weekend, its about 8km's and starts around 700m above sea level and ends at around 50m. Case had never rode it before, he did not know the road, what was around the corners, how sharp they were etc... I was on the MY limit, trying to 'impress' with my handling abilities! Pft I was so schooled. I was coming into hairpins and breaking as late as i thought possible, rear wheel just about lifting and Casey was litterally peddaling around the outside of me. Physics suggested to me that those lines, speeds and lean angles on a push bike were impossible. Clearly not the case.



Sure its not a motor bike etc... but the point was made to me in ways that is hard to articulate. All of those riders are insane, but I truly believe Casey has a notch above all the rest of them. Yes I agree that there is more to a champion than just speed, but I think these early tests, his ability to just jump on the Honda and go quick re-enforces what many thought of his time at Ducatti.

1. Was that the Oxley Hwy?



and



2. Did you guys ride back up it?

Lovely bit of road.



Edit. Just realised ... maybe it was the ride into Thora? Perhaps an even more magicroad. Scary to do at speed on a push bike though

 

[is200]

1. Was that the Oxley Hwy?



and



2. Did you guys ride back up it?

Lovely bit of road.



Edit. Just realised ... maybe it was the ride into Thora? Perhaps an even more magicroad. Scary to do at speed on a push bike though

It was actually in Adelaide. Montacute Road, coming down from Marble Hill. A brilliant section of road on a pushie.

 

[michaelm]

I think Pedrosa will beat Stoner regularly this year. He is a very fast little midget - his problem is consistancy and not falling off when the bike isn't quite right.

No doubt pedrosa is close to unbeatable by anyone on his day. However, as far as falling off the bike goes I think his problem is not so much falling more frequently than others but rather that he doesn't bounce well when he does fall; most if not all of his premier class seasons have been significantly impeded by injuries.

 

[Nuts]

Maybe a few people are starting to realise that maybe Stoner deserves some credit for what he did on the Duk.

Expect to see some seriously quick times today, and the top guys going for bragging rights - Dani, Jorge and Stoner.

It's going to be an interesting season.

 

[michaelm]

Isn't it interesting that the greatest bike developer the world has ever seen is still trying to get his position on the bike right. That's right after 7 days or 6 due to his tummy ache and 300 or so laps they are still playing with body position.



Well I call a massive ........ on that one.



After 7 .... oh sorry 6 days due to a tummy ache he hasn't tried any of the new parts that the smallest factory in MotoGP worked right through Christmas to produce and the test team spent many days testing.



Well I call a MASSIVE ........ on that one too.



In my opinion what we are really seeing is that the great developer has no idea what to do with a bike that has fundamental flaws to make it better. I also think that there has been a huge backlash against Ducati for suggesting a change of the DNA of the bike is required or will happen so that "Rossi can be Rossi". This is why they are using terms like "Ducati Settings".



Didn't we hear right from the outset when Rossi signed that he was signed because he is a great developer? Well they paid $15 mill euro for that skill. They didn't pay that to get some one who could just win on it as they already had that for far less money. So to sell us the ........ that in 7 days (sorry 6) that they have not tried any new parts is down right rude and insulting. Some of you fanboi's may want to drink that koolaid but I would rather eat .....



Now lets look at one small additional point. Where are all the other Ducati's? After all, the great developer was going to turn the bike into something that everybody could ride. Looks to me like they are all languishing at the back of the grid. The great developer has even managed to wash off any speed Hayden had and the speed that DePuniet displayed at the first test.



Now the koolaid drinkers will say that he has only had 7 (sorry 6) days and it takes time. Well he is the greatest and they did publicly suggest that they could do it in a very short time frame. Next they will say when Rossi goes faster, which I believe he will as he will ride around the problems (mmm sounds familar), yet the other Ducati riders languish at the back, that it is not Rossi's job to develop the bike for others!!!

So you really don't like valentino?

 

[demingracer]

Great post mental anarchist. I couldn't have said any better.



Two tests and they are further behind than when they started.

 

[xx CURVE xx]

Isn't it interesting that the greatest bike developer the world has ever seen is still trying to get his position on the bike right. That's right after 7 days or 6 due to his tummy ache and 300 or so laps they are still playing with body position.



Well I call a massive ........ on that one.



After 7 .... oh sorry 6 days due to a tummy ache he hasn't tried any of the new parts that the smallest factory in MotoGP worked right through Christmas to produce and the test team spent many days testing.



Well I call a MASSIVE ........ on that one too.



In my opinion what we are really seeing is that the great developer has no idea what to do with a bike that has fundamental flaws to make it better. I also think that there has been a huge backlash against Ducati for suggesting a change of the DNA of the bike is required or will happen so that "Rossi can be Rossi". This is why they are using terms like "Ducati Settings".



Didn't we hear right from the outset when Rossi signed that he was signed because he is a great developer? Well they paid $15 mill euro for that skill. They didn't pay that to get some one who could just win on it as they already had that for far less money. So to sell us the ........ that in 7 days (sorry 6) that they have not tried any new parts is down right rude and insulting. Some of you fanboi's may want to drink that koolaid but I would rather eat .....



Now lets look at one small additional point. Where are all the other Ducati's? After all, the great developer was going to turn the bike into something that everybody could ride. Looks to me like they are all languishing at the back of the grid. The great developer has even managed to wash off any speed Hayden had and the speed that DePuniet displayed at the first test.



Now the koolaid drinkers will say that he has only had 7 (sorry 6) days and it takes time. Well he is the greatest and they did publicly suggest that they could do it in a very short time frame. Next they will say when Rossi goes faster, which I believe he will as he will ride around the problems (mmm sounds familar), yet the other Ducati riders languish at the back, that it is not Rossi's job to develop the bike for others!!!

thats the essence of developing you ....... twit.



......Rossi: "naa that wont work we need to do this" Ducati: "Sir yes Sir!"........



end of.

 

[Mental Anarchist]

So you really don't like valentino?

I don't dislike Rossi at all. I dislike his fans that make him into something that he can't live up to. He is just a man who is very good at his trade. He is not super human.



I also don't like the way Ducati have handled the Rossi signing putting him at the centre of the universe when all of their previous riders have been quite capable of giving them the feedback they needed to fix the bike.



I am also very disappointed with JB as I have held him in very high regard but his politics and disrespect of other riders who have ridden the Ducati with their hands tied behind their backs due to a manufacturer who has failed to react to their feedback has been a real let down.



I think my post reflects all of these points rather than being a straight out attack on Rossi himself. I also think that my post mainly reflects my opinion that Ducati are feeding the fans a big dose of ........ about what is really going on.



My second last paragraph is probably a direct attack on Rossi. My references to his tummy ache is a stab at his fans who denigrated Stoner for his own mystery illness.