Round 7: 2017 Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya

Watching Lorenzo back it into t1 was awesome, Marquez rode a smart race. The big disappointment was Pedrosa I guess, it looked like he was going to stream away with it but he cooked his tyres earlier than the others on the podium.

JPSLotus said:

There's still a lot of races to go, and Yamaha isn't going to have this kind of performance all the time. Too early to be saying this stuff.

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It's to early to call him a contender? Have you looked at the points?

Pigeon said:

Looks like Honda have been shafted with the new Michelin so Dovi,Vin,Zar,

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Great Dovi. it was on the cards Hot weather and a long straight (Mugello) suiting the Duc for a win.

JPSLotus said:

Dovi with back-to-back wins! Fantastic riding and tire management!

Hey Gaz, you still want to compare him with Crutchlow?

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Would be the first back to back Ducati wins for 8 or so seasons (irrespective of riders) so good effort Dovi and quite unexpected in that Catalunya is not the best track.

As for the comparison, well I did say it would bite me

But in fairness, I will never begrudge Dovi some limelight as riders like him do not get the limelight as they do not fit the 'out there, laugh at all times', or 'say something controversial' mould.

IMO though, big credit Lorenzo who could have easily ridden around but knuckled down as I suspect the tyres came to him which gave him confidence enough to allow him to ride the Ducati closer to how he needs to ride it.

I do again suspect that there will be meeting at Yamaha as twice this season the official factory team have been beaten by the Tech3 team so they do need to look at chassis or similar to try to determine the issues

MdubSTYLIE said:

It's to early to call him a contender? Have you looked at the points?

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Definitely to early Dubs as how often is one annointed only for the proverbial to hit the fan and stuff up the chances (thing Pedrosa nearly every season), but will say that he has the bike working and so far it is at expected and unexpected tracks.

What he may need to be wary of is if Lorenzo gets it together as the potential may be that JL will take points from Dovi as the season progresses. Again, all time will tell but the risk is real

Will admit that I was surfing a few sites whilst that went on and it was interesting to see the 'there goes Lorenzo dropping like a stone' comments become 'woah there, here comes Lorenzo' comments

If Dovi hasn't have been knocked off in Argentina(can't remember where he was sitting) would he be leading the title race now?

Gaz said:

Definitely to early Dubs as how often is one annointed only for the proverbial to hit the fan and stuff up the chances (thing Pedrosa nearly every season), but will say that he has the bike working and so far it is at expected and unexpected tracks.

What he may need to be wary of is if Lorenzo gets it together as the potential may be that JL will take points from Dovi as the season progresses. Again, all time will tell but the risk is real

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So he is not a contender? Could you guys please tell me the rules to contention. I guess I don't understand. I thought it had to do with people and there chances at winning the title. I guess I need to know when contention starts. Like three races to go? So no one is a contender yet? You guys hurt my fragile little mind.

p4p1 said:

If Dovi hasn't have been knocked off in Argentina(can't remember where he was sitting) would he be leading the title race now?

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Yes but that doesnt matter.

Looks like the law of unintended consequences again, as in 2012 when the new tyre just happened to particularly suit Lorenzo. Now a tyre which particularly suited Vinales has been taken away, unfairly imo, and the new tyre seems to suit Ducati, not at all what the Honda factory riders and Rossi would have anticipated when they voted for the tyre I would imagine.

Impressed wth MM's post-race interview when he gave Dovi plenty of credit, he seems much more human now than when he was an obsessed teenager.

If I can just point a few things out.
Rossi is only 8 points ahead of Zarco - I expect him to finish well in front though.

The other things is that Lorenzo goes to Ducati, he along with Stoner have huge input t development and Ducati get back to back wins for the first time since Stoner in 2010. I expect them to win at least once more this year given that the red bull ring is their dream track.
Meanwhile where Lorenzo just left at Yamaha they have two weeks in unfavourable conditions and have an almost unprecedented stuggle in those weekends for their factory riders. During those they were beaten by at least one of the Lorenzo developed 2016 Yamahas.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Yes but that doesnt matter.

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I understand where the others are coming from. Ducati has a record of inconsistency so it's a big call to say he is definitely a championship contender.

I also thought this was another case where Marquez shows one of his greatest but almost hidden talents in tyre conservation. Despite his aggressive style he managed to get better life in the tyres than the lighter and (normally) smoother Pedrosa. It's not the first time he's nursed tyres across the line to take the best possible results either. Qatar this year and Brno last year spring to mind.

MdubSTYLIE said:

So he is not a contender? Could you guys please tell me the rules to contention. I guess I don't understand. I thought it had to do with people and there chances at winning the title. I guess I need to know when contention starts. Like three races to go? So no one is a contender yet? You guys hurt my fragile little mind.

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Of course he is a contender. The factory Yamahas seem to struggle in hot conditions, and Honda haven't come up with a new chassis which suits MM for a third year now. If MM rides as headily in the remaining races he will be right in there regardless of whether Honda can improve the chassis, he won a title last season riding like that. As someone said if Lorenzo has cracked the code on riding the Ducati as looked the case in the last half of this race, he might be a problem with taking points from Dovi, although he is a pro and might ride to actually help a contending team-mate.

I don't know whether Stoner really has contributed, but having him as a test rider has coincided with Honda's last good bike and the current Ducati.

p4p1 said:

I understand where the others are coming from. Ducati has a record of inconsistency so it's a big call to say he is definitely a championship contender.

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I understand that. But the current season is showing both honda and yamaha struggling more than ducati. Yama and Honda have been hit and miss while Dovi has been consistent. As his track record shows. These wins aren't him doing much more but other manufacturers struggling. I don't see any change coming soon.

michaelm said:

Of course he is a contender. The factory Yamahas seem to struggle in hot conditions, and Honda have 't come up with a new chassis which suits MM for a third year now. If MM rides as headily in the remaining races he will be right in there regardless of whether Honda can improve the chassis, he won a title last season riding like that. As someone said if Lorenzo has cracked the code on riding the Ducati as looked the case in the last half of this race, he might be a problem with taking points from Dovi, although he is a pro and might ride to actually help a contending team-mate.

I don't know whether Stoner really has contributed, but having him as a test rider has coincided with Honda's last good bike and the current Ducati.

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This is what I'm saying. Minus the last bit. If Dovi hadn't been taken out so regularly last year he would have been a contender. So honda and yamaha having some issue put the tortoise in front of the hare(s).

Iamapony said:

I am not asking you to do ..... I asked what you meant. You are impossible to discuss this with because you don't understand analogies or figures of speech or apparently even what you say. So I give up. All you want to do is say someone is wrong without any sound arguments. Did you watch the gif that GAZ posted? Lorenzo has changed his riding. Period. But, you close your eyes to that, I guess. And you cannot accept any success of Ducati, except to say it is an anomaly. Just like Stoner, I suppose. Seriously, if I am not having intellectual stimulation or fun with this discussion, so I will stop.

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Dude - this has been a very friendly discussion. Don't get all bent out of shape. Re: Sound arguments... I am stating facts derived from years of observation. Please tell me what thing I said that isn't based on factual observation. What specifically, did I say that wasn't based on sound argument???

Re: Stoner... the guy was heads and shoulders above the crowd, to the point that when he blew up on the Duc nobody could quite take it in; very much out of left field. Pretty much the definition of anomaly.

Re: I can't deal with Ducati being successful; you are way off base. Were you to go back to when I first came on this forum, you'd see my posts were always very supportive of the Ducati effort, back when this place was ablaze with outraged Boppers who loathed Ducati and cried and screamed how the bike "road itself" - to steal victory away from Vale.

Re: Lorenzo... remains to be seen. He looked good in late stages of the race today. He still hasn't learned to totally trust the bike the way Dovi has. That's always been the trick of doing well on the Duc. If he or Dovi break the Jap Ceiling - I'll be as happy as anyone. For there to be three equally competitive teams can only be a good thing.

iNfRaSoNiC said:

Actually you are right, he isn't, but anyway the sport will loss when he retires that's not my opinion all media said so

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Fake news.:furious:

p4p1 said:

If I can just point a few things out.
Rossi is only 8 points ahead of Zarco - I expect him to finish well in front though.

The other things is that Lorenzo goes to Ducati, he along with Stoner have huge input t development and Ducati get back to back wins for the first time since Stoner in 2010. I expect them to win at least once more this year given that the red bull ring is their dream track.
Meanwhile where Lorenzo just left at Yamaha they have two weeks in unfavourable conditions and have an almost unprecedented stuggle in those weekends for their factory riders. During those they were beaten by at least one of the Lorenzo developed 2016 Yamahas.

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I think it may have finally become a bridge too far for Valentino at age 38, which I say without malice on this occasion. That was a gruelling race, and 7 years younger Dovi looked absolutely exhausted at the end of it. I gather Rossi has done much more fitness work in latter years, fitness not being something for which he was renowned in his pomp, but you can't fight time's winged chariot.

JPSLotus said:

There's still a lot of races to go, and Yamaha isn't going to have this kind of performance all the time. Too early to be saying this stuff.

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It is pretty weird to see Yamaha struggle so much. I'm very curious to hear hw they're going to present this to the press. They're running the tire Rossi wanted. WTF is keeping them back?