Round 3: Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas 2017

JPSLotus · Apr 21, 2017

Iamapony said:
There hasn't been complaining in the past. I am surprised COTA has gotten that much worse in a year, except in one. There, I could see a problem developing, much more than the other corners at the end of the straights, where it's a longer distance to scrub speed, and less damaging to the circuit.

Laguna has historic cars every year and Le Mans cars. The heavy Mustangs and such do more damage than open-wheelers. The biggest complaints at Laguna are entry into 5 and exit on 8 (corkscrew). Eleven, which is actually the slowest corner, doesn't get as many complaints. You can avoid the worst bumps in 5, unless you are Pedrosa, who complained about that corner a lot, or you want to pass on the inside.

I'm not entirely surprised with COTA because the F1 cars have been generating more and more downforce each year, and the LMP1 cars have also been getting progressively quicker. Not that COTA hosts a lot of racing mind you from what I understand, but they have the two fastest auto racing series coming through there plus IMSA sports cars, so between the three it sees to having a negative impact. The 2017 F1 cars under braking are going to be even worse as the tire width change increased the tire contact patch and overall downforce levels are blowing away the 2016 cars. One corner at Melbourne back in March had the Mercedes W08 hitting 6.5 G's. To put it in perspective, a F16 fighter jet can pull up to 9G's vertically. So this is all going to have a bad impact on COTA. Really wish GP would go elsewhere in the USA. But as you mention Laguna has issues.

JPSLotus · Apr 21, 2017

Daniboy said:
The only track that they share which I'd keep is Catalunya, it has been the scene of some good races.
Donington should be the British GP.
The Italian rounds don't share apart from testing I think.
Which other tracks do both?

Agreed about Catalunya, although with the revamp in the track layout after Salom's death, I'm a little less enthused about the circuit as I strongly hate the F1 layout, and it's put the bikes on the exact same layout. So turn 10, turn 13, turn 14, and turn 15 were all out of play for the bikes until they changed the configuration for the race last year. F1 does a heavy winter pre-season testing program there and will already have raced there before MotoGP shows up. Early to say, but I have a feeling there will be complaints when GP rolls in there come June.

Would love to see GP go back to Donington Park. I hate Silverstone in it's current configuration and have never fully enjoyed bikes going around there as much as I did with Donington.

Misano and Mugello don't do F1 at all, other than the odd test at Mugello. And I don't think any F1 cars have tested at Mugello since 2012 when there was an official test there with all of the teams.

Just leaves:

COTA
Silverstone
Sepang
Catalunya
Red Bull Ring

Keshav · Apr 21, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Agreed about Catalunya, although with the revamp in the track layout after Salom's death, I'm a little less enthused about the circuit as I strongly hate the F1 layout, and it's put the bikes on the exact same layout. So turn 10, turn 13, turn 14, and turn 15 were all out of play for the bikes until they changed the configuration for the race last year. F1 does a heavy winter pre-season testing program there and will already have raced there before MotoGP shows up. Early to say, but I have a feeling there will be complaints when GP rolls in there come June.

Would love to see GP go back to Donington Park. I hate Silverstone in it's current configuration and have never fully enjoyed bikes going around there as much as I did with Donington.

Misano and Mugello don't do F1 at all, other than the odd test at Mugello. And I don't think any F1 cars have tested at Mugello since 2012 when there was an official test there with all of the teams.

Just leaves:

COTA
Silverstone
Sepang
Catalunya
Red Bull Ring

Always LOVED Donnington. A great layout with beautiful surroundings. If they went back there, I'd be the first to book a ticket to go. Silverstone blows.

povol · Apr 21, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Agreed about Catalunya, although with the revamp in the track layout after Salom's death, I'm a little less enthused about the circuit as I strongly hate the F1 layout, and it's put the bikes on the exact same layout. So turn 10, turn 13, turn 14, and turn 15 were all out of play for the bikes until they changed the configuration for the race last year. F1 does a heavy winter pre-season testing program there and will already have raced there before MotoGP shows up. Early to say, but I have a feeling there will be complaints when GP rolls in there come June.

Would love to see GP go back to Donington Park. I hate Silverstone in it's current configuration and have never fully enjoyed bikes going around there as much as I did with Donington.

Misano and Mugello don't do F1 at all, other than the odd test at Mugello. And I don't think any F1 cars have tested at Mugello since 2012 when there was an official test there with all of the teams.

Just leaves:

COTA
Silverstone
Sepang
Catalunya
Red Bull Ring

I kind of like Silverstone as it seems to create really good battles at the front.all the races there have been exciting

JPSLotus · Apr 21, 2017

povol said:
I kind of like Silverstone as it seems to create really good battles at the front.all the races there have been exciting

Donington has a much more natural flow to it than Silverstone does now. But yes I do agree there have been good races at Silverstone. My issue with Silverstone was when they eliminated the run from Abbey to Bridge, and outright eliminated Bridge. The Loop and Wellington are in my opinion horse .... and were created for TV cameras. No thanks, bring back the real Abbey and Bridge please.

Gaz · Apr 21, 2017

Daniboy said:
Bikes and F1 cars shouldn't share circuits , the cars literally push the tarmac towards the corner creating those ripples.
Now that Sepang has got rid of F1 the circuit should improve in some corner entries.
Didn't the GP bikes do it at Laguna one year though?

In Oz, if tracks weren't shared you would have no bike racing as a track can book up each and every day with cars if they so choose, but maybe 1 day a week with bikes (exception would be PI that could book 3 per fortnight with bikes).

Basically, no profit (or even breaking even) across a year of running bikes only.

Now, you want ripples and moved tarmac , check a circuit used for truck racing which I do admit is ridiculously fun to watch

JPSLotus · Apr 21, 2017

Just wanted to throw up all of the FP times so far....

Free Practice 1
1. Maverick Viñales ESP Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 2m 04.923s [Lap 10/17] 331km/h (Top Speed)
2. Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 2m 05.500s +0.577s [15/19] 332km/h
3. Andrea Dovizioso ITA Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP17) 2m 05.604s +0.681s [13/15] 333km/h
4. Johann Zarco FRA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)* 2m 05.790s +0.867s [17/17] 331km/h
5. Alvaro Bautista ESP Aspar MotoGP Team (Desmosedici GP16) 2m 05.833s +0.910s [15/15] 337km/h
6. Jorge Lorenzo ESP Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP17) 2m 06.017s +1.094s [16/17] 336km/h
7. Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 2m 06.109s +1.186s [5/16] 336km/h
8. Valentino Rossi ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 2m 06.292s +1.369s [15/15] 331km/h
9. Aleix Espargaro ESP Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP) 2m 06.411s +1.488s [14/14] 331km/h
10. Danilo Petrucci ITA Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP17) 2m 06.469s +1.546s [13/13] 332km/h
11. Cal Crutchlow GBR LCR Honda (RC213V) 2m 06.484s +1.561s [12/13] 331km/h
12. Jack Miller AUS Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V) 2m 06.515s +1.592s [16/16] 330km/h
13. Scott Redding GBR Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP16) 2m 06.646s +1.723s [14/14] 333km/h
14. Jonas Folger GER Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)* 2m 06.692s +1.769s [15/15] 330km/h
15. Hector Barbera ESP Reale Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP16) 2m 06.786s +1.863s [9/15] 336km/h
16. Andrea Iannone ITA Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR) 2m 06.824s +1.901s [9/14] 326km/h
17. Tito Rabat ESP Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V) 2m 06.894s +1.971s [13/17] 333km/h
18. Loris Baz FRA Reale Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP15) 2m 07.127s +2.204s [12/17] 325km/h
19. Karel Abraham CZE Aspar MotoGP Team (Desmosedici GP15) 2m 07.300s +2.377s [15/15] 332km/h
20. Alex Rins ESP Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR)* 2m 08.006s +3.083s [10/16] 330km/h
21. Pol Espargaro ESP Red Bull KTM Factory Racing (RC16) 2m 08.128s +3.205s [6/15] 331km/h
22. Sam Lowes GBR Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP)* 2m 08.292s +3.369s [13/16] 328km/h
23. Bradley Smith GBR Red Bull KTM Factory Racing (RC16) 2m 08.740s +3.817s [14/15] 326km/h

Free Practice 2

1. ^1 Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 2m 04.061s [Lap 14/14] 331km/h (Top Speed)
2. ^2 Johann Zarco FRA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)* 2m 04.347s +0.286s [16/17] 331km/h
3. ˅2 Maverick Viñales ESP Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 2m 04.451s +0.390s [10/17] 331km/h
4. ^4 Valentino Rossi ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 2m 04.806s +0.745s [15/17] 331km/h
5. ^2 Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 2m 04.811s +0.750s [12/15] 332km/h
6. ˅3 Andrea Dovizioso ITA Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP17) 2m 04.830s +0.769s [15/16] 334km/h
7. ^4 Cal Crutchlow GBR LCR Honda (RC213V) 2m 05.005s +0.944s [13/15] 328km/h
8. ^6 Jonas Folger GER Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)* 2m 05.033s +0.972s [14/15] 332km/h
9. ^4 Scott Redding GBR Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP16) 2m 05.116s +1.055s [14/15] 333km/h
10. ^6 Andrea Iannone ITA Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR) 2m 05.142s +1.081s [17/17] 327km/h
11. ˅5 Jorge Lorenzo ESP Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP17) 2m 05.282s +1.221s [14/15] 337km/h
12. ˅2 Danilo Petrucci ITA Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP17) 2m 05.284s +1.223s [14/15] 333km/h
13. ˅1 Jack Miller AUS Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V) 2m 05.463s +1.402s [12/15] 332km/h
14. ˅5 Aleix Espargaro ESP Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP) 2m 05.468s +1.407s [14/14] 328km/h
15. = Hector Barbera ESP Reale Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP16) 2m 05.584s +1.523s [12/14] 338km/h
16. ˅11 Alvaro Bautista ESP Pull&Bear Aspar Team (Desmosedici GP16) 2m 05.602s +1.541s [15/17] 340km/h
17. = Tito Rabat ESP Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V) 2m 05.943s +1.882s [14/16] 330km/h
18. ^2 Alex Rins ESP Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR)* 2m 06.155s +2.094s [13/13] 330km/h
19. ˅1 Loris Baz FRA Reale Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP15) 2m 06.358s +2.297s [4/13] 327km/h
20. ^1 Pol Espargaro ESP Red Bull KTM Factory Racing (RC16) 2m 06.503s +2.442s [12/15] 330km/h
21. ˅2 Karel Abraham CZE Pull&Bear Aspar Team (Desmosedici GP15) 2m 06.709s +2.648s [9/11] 328km/h
22. = Sam Lowes GBR Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP)* 2m 06.741s +2.680s [12/13] 327km/h
23. = Bradley Smith GBR Red Bull KTM Factory Racing (RC16) 2m 07.434s +3.373s [15/15] 327km/h

JohnnyKnockdown · Apr 21, 2017

Daniboy said:
The only track that they share which I'd keep is Catalunya, it has been the scene of some good races.
Donington should be the British GP.
The Italian rounds don't share apart from testing I think.
Which other tracks do both?

Circuit of Wales

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 21, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Donington has a much more natural flow to it than Silverstone does now. But yes I do agree there have been good races at Silverstone. My issue with Silverstone was when they eliminated the run from Abbey to Bridge, and outright eliminated Bridge. The Loop and Wellington are in my opinion horse .... and were created for TV cameras. No thanks, bring back the real Abbey and Bridge please.

Agree about the original Abbey and Bridge, however Donington is an infuriating circuit that actually rarely produced close racing in the top class of GP towards the end of its tenure - yet oddly the Superbikes were more often than not spectacular. Yes it has a natural flow - from the Start/Finish until Coppice, but from Foggy Esses to Goddards - or as Lawson christened it, 'the car park section', this is completely ruined. They've even demolished the Redgate Pub although I would have actually been happy to have seen Gillett's revised plans come to fruition knowing that the first two thirds would have remained intact.

Forget Silverstone, the most heinous and criminal carving up of a race circuit was the cathedral. As someone in the press said at the time, what they did to that racetrack was like cropping a Rembrandt and shoving it in a clip frame.

Iamapony · Apr 21, 2017

Gaz said:
In Oz, if tracks weren't shared you would have no bike racing as a track can book up each and every day with cars if they so choose, but maybe 1 day a week with bikes (exception would be PI that could book 3 per fortnight with bikes).

Basically, no profit (or even breaking even) across a year of running bikes only.

Now, you want ripples and moved tarmac , check a circuit used for truck racing which I do admit is ridiculously fun to watch

That is true everywhere, except maybe in Spain. Hell, COTA got in trouble with a drop-off in MotoGP and F1 sales, and they have a whole concert series to make money on. Next long break in MotoGP we can discuss track finances. I think a handful of tracks make any real moola.

I ain't doing no truck road racing. If I wanted to watch inappropriate machinery in competition, I would go to a lawnmower event or something with a Prius in it.

Gaz · Apr 21, 2017

Iamapony said:
That is true everywhere, except maybe in Spain. Hell, COTA got in trouble with a drop-off in MotoGP and F1 sales, and they have a whole concert series to make money on. Next long break in MotoGP we can discuss track finances. I think a handful of tracks make any real moola.

I ain't doing no truck road racing. If I wanted to watch inappropriate machinery in competition, I would go to a lawnmower event or something with a Prius in it.

Hey, not all lawn mowers are boring (116mph)

Mean_Mower_-_the_world-s_fastest_lawnmower_Honda_53274-1500.jpg

And the trucks I mean aint no US 'pick-up truck'

Keshav · Apr 21, 2017

Leave it to the Desis.

Indian street traffic should only be that orderly.

Gaz · Apr 21, 2017

It used to have a scene over here but costs got in the way although I have seen a bit of footage from Europe and Uk of late.

There is some serious weaponry amongst them as well

JKant · Apr 21, 2017

budoist said:

I can see why the fusebox in Alvaro Bautista's head started shorting out when she handed him his trophy on the podium.

JKant · Apr 21, 2017

Keshav said:
Leave it to the Desis. Indian street traffic should only be that orderly.

Bah! This isn't racing. You haven't seen real heavy vehicle racing until you've seen private buses on the same city route compete for fares.

Two buses (sometimes even three) with drivers, who may or may not be hopped up on speed, weaving their way through crowded streets competing to be the first to make it to the next bus-stop and its waiting passengers. With the conductor/ticket guy working as the pit-crew (running the bus just slow enough to 'let' passengers do a running embark/disembark without losing time in a dead stop) and running the racing strategy (sometime you gotta skip a less frequented stop to make it to a more crowded one first).

On some open stretches you could see three or four overtakes between two stops with the drivers expertly working the traffic - its all about finding the fastest line between the cars, motorcyclists, rickshaws, cyclists, cows, pedestrians, stray dogs (and at nighttime... the drunks) while jumping the red lights with perfect timing.

Was a true test of skill, reflexes & daring. Course these pvt operators got shut down by the nanny state trying to stamp out the spirit of racing, on the weak pretext that a few dozen pedestrians got bumped off every year. Now you have state-owned buses who's hopped-up drivers overspeed and drive dangerously only because they want to get home fast. They've taken the 'sport' out of it. That's socialism for you. Sad.

Halos on F1 machines, no 'killer-Bluelines' on city roads. Where does this safety craze end?!

Keshav · Apr 22, 2017

JKant said:
Bah! This isn't racing. You haven't seen real heavy vehicle racing until you've seen private buses on the same city route compete for fares.

Two buses (sometimes even three) with drivers, who may or may not be hopped up on speed, weaving their way through crowded streets competing to be the first to make it to the next bus-stop and its waiting passengers. With the conductor/ticket guy working as the pit-crew (running the bus just slow enough to 'let' passengers do a running embark/disembark without losing time in a dead stop) and running the racing strategy (sometime you gotta skip a less frequented stop to make it to a more crowded one first).

On some open stretches you could see three or four overtakes between two stops with the drivers expertly working the traffic - its all about finding the fastest line between the cars, motorcyclists, rickshaws, cyclists, cows, pedestrians, stray dogs (and at nighttime... the drunks) while jumping the red lights with perfect timing.

Was a true test of skill, reflexes & daring. Course these pvt operators got shut down by the nanny state trying to stamp out the spirit of racing, on the weak pretext that a few dozen pedestrians got bumped off every year. Now you have state-owned buses who's hopped-up drivers overspeed and drive dangerously only because they want to get home fast. They've taken the 'sport' out of it. That's socialism for you. Sad.

Halos on F1 machines, no 'killer-Bluelines' on city roads. Where does this safety craze end?!

Lived in India for 10 years and thought the traffic there was insane, then did a brief tour around Cambodia and Vietnam where everybody, and I do mean everybody, has a scooter or motorycycle. Best analogy would be an infinite number of weasels on a hotplate. Truly looney.

danski · Apr 22, 2017

Bit of a crashfest so far, great save by Jack, thought he was down!

Iamapony · Apr 22, 2017

The front is coming out with the cooler weather in FP 3. If the F1 bumps are that bad mid-corner, it will be more than the tires. The fork fluid will not be warm enough either and should probably be changed or the suspension softened a bit.

danski · Apr 22, 2017

The King of Cota has dethroned himself twice so far:fishing1:

Iamapony · Apr 22, 2017

That second crash, he was just cruising on an out-lap and the rear came around. That was pretty unpredictable. His biggest problem is that MV came out and did the fastest time. Oops.

Round 3: Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas 2017

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