Round 3: Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas 2017

moto vudu said:

No need for Duc to every ban anyone for throwing insults my way nor should he ever sensor a post directed at me. I'm sure I'm no where near the oldest participating member here, but I come from a time & place where thick skin wasn't an option.. it was a necessity. Not a chance in hell for me to be negatively impacted over some e-insults. :giggle: Would deserve an ...-whoopin for being a weak ..... if that happened. Anyone crying over internet insults would've never even made it a week in the HS I went to.

Vudu, Hater's High School, Class of '97, Valedictorian.

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moto vudu said:

No need for Duc to every ban anyone for throwing insults my way nor should he ever censor a post directed at me. I'm sure I'm no where near the oldest participating member here, but I come from a time & place where thick skin wasn't an option.. it was a necessity. Not a chance in hell for me to be negatively impacted over some e-insults. :giggle: Would deserve an ...-whoopin for being a weak ..... if that happened. Anyone crying over internet insults would've never even made it a week in the HS I went to.

Vudu, Hater's High School, Class of '97, Valedictorian.

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michaelm said:

Who cares about insults? Certainly not me. You can obviously say whatever you like about whomever you like, including me, and will get no censure from me.

What annoys people is that your main schtick on here is akin to the Monty Python argument sketch, and in the absence of much in the way of counter arguments your posts frequently consist mainly of calling those who disagree with you "haters", conspiracy theorists or biased. Of course those you oppose are biased, but very evidently so are you.

If you like, everyone can just immediately call you a "Rossibopper" straight off in reply to any post you make without bothering to address any arguments you actually do care to advance, but most people consider that to be a cop-out/ lacking in intellectual rigour.

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moto vudu said:

I already defined my criteria for calling someone a hater. It's definitely not just because someone has a differing opinion. You don't think you're ever annoying? Anyway, if you're so annoyed, click below.

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michaelm said:

Never done that with anyone, and I have no problem debating my point of view with anyone including you, or debating any argument you care to present.

I don't care about whether I annoy you, and neither should you care about annoying me obviously.

This is a forum however, the purpose of which is to debate gp bike racing, my suggestion is that you do so rather than make the call of " hater " whenever you can't argue your position. If you want to call me or others "haters" then fine, do so, but you could perhaps consider also presenting some arguments as well.

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Furiosa said:

Ffs just shut up! So much sniping all the ....... time.... page after page of you said this he said that.
We will have different opinions and perspectives.
It's hard to tell who's here for MotoGP chat and who's here to be mean to people they don't know just to see if they can wind them up.
I preferred the spam.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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moto vudu said:

I don't ever recall participating in the little "who's the GOAT" or "who's an alien" discussions that take place on here.

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Arrabbiata1 said:

Genuinely, I'm interested in what you have to say and in fairness, genuinely appreciative that you and Daniboy (sorry Danski) don't feel the need to push this tiresome GOAT and 'nine times' nonsense at every available opportunity.

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Dr No said:

Can I interest you in a rocking horse or a K I T C H E N ?

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moto vudu said:

Hhhmm, you're all over the place with this. It reads like you're venting frustration so I don't really feel a need to reply to the whole post. Hopefully you feel better now having got it all off your chest. You mentioned you had me on ignore, it's probably better for your health that you re-check that ignore button.

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Arrabbiata1 said:

No Vudu, the problem appears to be that you construe any criticism of Valentino Rossi as 'hating'. As if the bias and attempted proselytisation by the media (which you seem to have no objection to) isn't bad enough, like any extremist doctrine, it's blind followers can't abide dissenters, non-believers and secularism.

Purely out of interest, do you regard the following blogs as "hating"?

Doctored ? MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi | Trunk Talk

Doctored: MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi ? Part 2 | Trunk Talk

To clarify, personally I too don't buy into the Rossi hagiography but it doesn't follow that my iconoclasm, scepticism or even cynicism towards much of the mythology built around him makes me a "hater".

Heresy, but, I don't regard him as "The Greatest of All Time" by a long shot -
this GOAT nonsense seems to be an uncritically accepted mantra by his followers many of which are utterly oblivious to the history of the sport and so incapable of contextualising his achievements. There are many reasons for why I think this, just as there are in respect of '15 times' Giacomo Agostini. I don't believe that he has the ability to compete for a title given even moderately disadvantaged machinery or support and I don't think he responds to pressure from his rivals either constructively or productively. (If you wish to discuss 2004 and the move to Yamaha in association with this, I would be only to happy to do so). In spite of this, I do think that he has consistently benefitted from substantial comparative advantage for much of his career without which he wouldn't have been so successful. Saying that, could you have transplanted any rider into his place, availed with the same support and they would have achieved the same? of course not - but there are one or two that may have exceeded it.

I do admit to loathing his largely moronic glory hunting fan base and find the mobilisation and manipulation of this fanaticism on behalf of Rossi himself utterly reprehensible. I find his public persona fake and often disingenuous - peeling away the tacky yellow veneer over the last twenty years has on occasions revealed a duplicity and a disturbing lack of dignity which for me is not the hallmark of the 'greatest of all time'.

When the clown mask slips, mind games aside, it's often unpleasant as 2015 was testament to. I've pointed out innumerable times that if Stoner, Lorenzo or Márquez had behaved like Rossi did in October and November of that year the reaction would have been a level of fanatical outrage that may have even threatened their future racing careers. You speak of hatred, revisit the irrational extreme posts on here from that period from the hordes of yellow minions that deluged this forum and then imagine what it would have been like had things been the other way around during the run up and in the race at Sepang. Then go back on this forum to 2007 during Stoner's Championship year and the immediate aftermath. That's genuine hatred.

This is simply my opinion. I don't hate Valentino Rossi, as I've said before, how could I? I don't actually know the guy personally. Racing is ruthless - and the racetrack, both on and off rarely brings out the best in its competitors. I appreciate that. I also understand, that views need to be balanced and challenged, so a brief anecdote.

At a race meeting last year, can't remember where, may have been Le Mans, John McPhee wanted advice in respect of a certain parts of the circuit. He approached Valentino on the Thursday who promised to arrange a lap of the circuit one evening.Throughout the weekend and with raceday approaching he heard nothing and believing that he's been fobbed off forgot all about it - doubtless chastising himself for being so cheeky. Then on Saturday evening he got a text inviting him to Vale's motorhome. They lapped the circuit on scooters, he then dedicated his time to discuss set up with John in his garage.

There is no simple dichotomy between good and bad. As human beings, we all have our virtues and similarly our foibles and character defects. I find this tedious narrative that portrays Valentino as the hero and any opposition as the 'pretender to his throne' or an arch villain; or this resentment by his acolytes at the very suggestion of someone having the audacity to actually race him pathetic. How dare they? It's as though these people want it to be 2002 all over again and are only happy to see Rossi effortlessly disappear into the distance and win races by a country mile.

On the other hand, that McPhee story to me demonstrates that like all of us there are many sides to Valentino Rossi and any hatred of the guy is not only irrational but, yeah just as tedious as the adoration.

The cause célèbre surrounding Sepang I would say crystalised years of schism between the believers and non-believers. But the history of division runs deep, long before posters such as yourself Vudu.

I find this hilarious...

"There's posters here that try to hide their hatred for Rossi in criticism. I simply call it out when I see it."

So like some forum Matthew Hopkins, or Tavulian Torqueamada you have appointed yourself as some grand inquisitor to punish and expose the heretics and apostates, the 'Charlie Hebdo' late of Powerslide, that dares to mock your beliefs? I find this cult of personality surrounding Rossi as hilarious as I find it tragic. Without being able to fling them in the village pond to see if they float, how does Moto Vudu deem that someone is a 'hater'? What divine authority is imbued in you? Do you thrust a copy of 'What if I'd Never Tried it' into the clutches of your family members and insist that they take an oath of allegiance?

Seriously though mate, your obvious sensitivities aside, I find your comments richly ironic coming after your COTA pre race diatribe against Márquez. You appeared to derive pleasure from him crashing out in Argentina and the prospect of him doing the same in Austin as some cause for celebration. When you're not preoccupied with blowing yellow smoke up Valentino's arse you are one of this forums main Marc Márquez detractors - which by your definition would constitute 'hating'. I concede, you did give him credit for winning the race, but surely you'd sooner see your hero, or your Viñales contingency /insurance policy beat the man on the road? Tell me you'd rather see Lorenzo competitive again and fighting for wins. The irritating thing about Casey's 2011 title for me was the fact that Valentino wasn't in a position to challenge him

As I've said before, I don't care who wins so long as it's a close race to the title. And if Valentino gets his tenth? fine, like most glory hunters in sport - that's what people support him for so it will finally make them very happy. Pretty meaningless to me, because of years like 2002 and 2003 and the true legends of this sport that preceded him. Irrespective of who wins the title, I just want close racing and the more riders at the sharp end, the better. I just don't get this slavish fanboyism or tribalism - even if it is fraught by disparities and inequities, can't we just appreciate the racing?

It's been said before - so many Valentino fans are only here because of the cult of personality as opposed to being fans of the sport. It's almost as though the racing is at best secondary... an intrusion - an inconvenience.

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Iamapony said:

Well, can't argue with that. Maybe beheadings will show up in the "other racing" groups to encourage more participation. ;-P

What is with the fishing emoji stuff? Is this "Bass Masters" or a motorcycle racing site?

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Mick D said:

Great post A. Unfortunately logic and nuance seems to be going the way of the dodo these days.

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Gaz said:

Twice now the Emu has been mentioned

What did it ever do to deserve such derision in this forum

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JPSLotus said:

Say what you want, but I have a nice solid oak kitchen cabinet set thanks to the targeted ads on this forum.

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danski said:

The LEGEND

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JPSLotus said:

When you want to have a serious racing discussion that doesn't involve the prodigious use of the word hater, let me know. Who knows, maybe you can prove me wrong.

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moto vudu said:

When I think of the Rossi haters on this forum, your username isn't one that jumps to my mind.

As I've said before, the members here who I view as haters are the ones that still have something negative to say even when Rossi has done nothing wrong or has a good race. For example, if Rossi wins in Jerez... his haters will claim it's because of some kind of conspiracy. That is not any form of criticism, that's hate. I criticized Lorenzo when I felt he under-performed, I didn't make up excuses to downplay his successes (in fact I always gave him his due credit).

I never said I'd rather see Marquez DNF. I stated I think it's more likely he'll DNF with Vinales keeping pressure on him.

Don't ask me to not talk about Rossi, he's usually the main subject of this forum. You seem to have an issue if I post an opposing view to a post regarding Rossi. I guess you're hoping for this forum to be a place where anti-Rossi posts can go unchallenged.

I don't ever recall participating in the little "who's the GOAT" or "who's an alien" discussions that take place on here.

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Mick D said:

Great post A. Unfortunately logic and nuance seems to be going the way of the dodo these days.

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Gaz said:

Twice now the Emu has been mentioned

What did it ever do to deserve such derision in this forum

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