Round 3: Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas 2017

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michaelm said:
What I am questioning is what the MM incident to which you refer has to do with the above, given no-one is disputing the ruling is incorrect in the recent incident if Rossi was forced off the track. If you want to talk logical fallacies and call "straw man" on me as you did recently, I could easily call "red herring"on this one.
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Please refer to post #290. My discussion was with someone else not you.
 
moto vudu said:
Zarco didn't get in front of Rossi prior to the apex so yes, he should've conceded his position since Rossi still had the line. Still pictures do not show that Zarco was late in getting to that position. Your anti-Rossi bias doesn't allow you to look at the incident objectively. Switch the riders around in your head... can Rossi take the line from Zarco simply by putting himself on a collision course with Zarco at the apex of a corner? Riders "stand up" other riders all the time, but it's usually done BEFORE the corner apex, not AT the apex. Any rider that aims to overtake at the apex is a bad accident waiting to happen. For the record, I don't think it was Zarco's intention to overtake so late, he simply committed to the overtake at that corner when he saw that Rossi had lost momentum, but he didn't adjust when he realized he wasn't going to get in front of Rossi in time. Racers will be racers.

It was a racing incident and I agree there isn't really a need for Rossi to complain to RD, but overall it's a small matter that you're dragging on because you haven't found anything better to discuss and you hate Rossi's guts. If the incident was between Zarco and Crutchlow, you wouldn't be spending so much time debating it.
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Looney toones!

Clearly the photos show Zarco was past rossi ...... and he made the pass and the corner ..... rossi knew this so blatantly cheats. Sadly he gets pandered to by dorna and gets no correct penalty.
 
BarryMachine said:
Looney toones!

Clearly the photos show Zarco was past rossi ...... and he made the pass and the corner ..... rossi knew this so blatantly cheats. Sadly he gets pandered to by dorna and gets no correct penalty.
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How about what the video clearly shows?
 
I was thinking about this more...

We're supposed to believe that a 9-times world champion, who supposedly has better smarts and awareness than any other rider on the grid if the media and sycophants are to be believed, suddenly doesn't know where not one, but TWO riders were over the course of the weekend? First Vinales, and then Zarco? I hear you can feel the vibration of a bike near you, and instead Rossi looks over the same way he did at Sepang 2015 before he committed attempted murder on Marc Marquez, as if to say in his ...... English, 'Zarco, what are you doing? Do you know who I am, boy?'
 
JPS is :fishing1:






Cue long winded insult.
 
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JPSLotus said:
I was thinking about this more...

We're supposed to believe that a 9-times world champion, who supposedly has better smarts and awareness than any other rider on the grid if the media and sycophants are to be believed, suddenly doesn't know where not one, but TWO riders were over the course of the weekend? First Vinales, and then Zarco? I hear you can feel the vibration of a bike near you, and instead Rossi looks over the same way he did at Sepang 2015 before he committed attempted murder on Marc Marquez, as if to say in his ...... English, 'Zarco, what are you doing? Do you know who I am, boy?'
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In all seriousness I think a true observation made by a Rossi partisan, perhaps JKant, is that this is all getting actually quite tiring for him at the age of 38, and he is starting to exhibit the crankiness of old age, in MotoGP terms of course, for which 38 is rather old.

What is amusing/ironic is to remember back to his attitude to Biaggi and Gibernau when he himself was closer to Zarco's age and they were significantly older.
 
michaelm said:
In all seriousness I think a true observation made by a Rossi partisan, perhaps JKant, is that this is all getting actually quite tiring for him at the age of 38, and he is starting to exhibit the crankiness of old age, in MotoGP terms of course, for which 38 is rather old.

What is amusing/ironic is to remember back to his attitude to Biaggi and Gibernau when he himself was closer to Zarco's age and they were significantly older.
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I don't think it is indicative of old age or anything like that. I think it's more that he has always expected other riders to yield to him no matter what the circumstances are on track. And he has never liked being raced head-to-head unless he is the one engaging in the head-to-head, and probably more importantly, when he thinks he will be the one "winning" the battle.

After all look at his snide comment to Stoner at Laguna 2008. Nevermind that Rossi nearly took out both riders through an out-of-control move at the Corkscrew. He had the gall to have that infamous exchange:

Rossi: "Great race."
Stoner: "No, you can't race this way."
Rossi: "That's racing, Casey."
Stoner: "That's racing? Ok, we'll see."

Hell, the entire news article from Autosport is still worth reading nearly a decade later for Rossi's comments and general ignorance.

Valentino Rossi and Casey Stoner exchanged words in parc ferme over a number of incidents in Sunday's MotoGP round at Laguna Seca.

The pair battled for the lead for 24 of the 32 laps, passing and re-passing each other several times. Rossi spent the most time in front and was ahead when Stoner ran wide at the last corner and dropped his bike in the gravel.

That granted Rossi an easy run to his maiden victory at Laguna, while Stoner recovered to finish second but complained about Rossi's riding after the race.

A brief conversation in parc ferme when Rossi attempted to shake hands with Stoner was caught on the BBC's live television coverage:

Rossi: "Great race."
Stoner: "No, you can't race this way."
Rossi: "That's racing, Casey."
Stoner: "That's racing? Ok, we'll see."

Stoner explained his complaint, claiming that some of Rossi's overtaking moves crossed the line between aggressive and 'too much'.

"It was about two or three moves, I think everybody will have seen them," he told the BBC. "A couple of other moves were alright, nice and clean, but there were a couple I wasn't happy with.

"I've been in hard racing all my life, some very aggressive racing, but today was a little bit too much. I nearly went in the gravel so many times and I don't think it was necessary. I was so nearly on the floor it wasn't funny."

The Australian later expanded on his view, and also suggested that Rossi braked earlier than usual at the final corner which caused him to run wide before falling in the gravel.

"I was just trying to find a point where I could get past where I knew he wasn't going to come barreling up the inside and wipe us both out," said Stoner. "We're here to try to score points, not to end a race. Even when I ran wide in the corner I could easily have gone into the back of Valentino and both of us gone down.

"He seemed to brake a lot earlier than normal. I nearly stayed on the track and I'd completely let off the brakes just to get it round to the right of him. I'm disappointed with my mistake. I could have caught it, I suppose. He'd done it a few times in the race so I should have been expecting it, but that time I just couldn't stop quick enough. I felt like I was going to plough into the back of him so I just let the brakes off and went around."

When asked whether the outcome of the race makes him think he should be more aggressive in future, Stoner replied: "I don't know whether I should because I've had problems before. I got fined two years ago for getting slightly in the way of Dani Pedrosa on a qualifying lap. I didn't mean to but I got fined for it.

"Dani or Valentino wouldn't get fined for this, but I get fined for it. So I'm worried if I do the same display I'll have punishment put on me, so I prefer to stay away from this and ride clean, aggressive but clean. If everything's kept fair and square it's alright, but I'm wondering sometimes whether they make decisions for certain reasons.

"But, look, Valentino rode a great race and I have nothing against that, just a couple of his overtaking moves, for me, were past the point. But I spoke to him about it on the podium and we'll just get on with the next weekend."

Rossi dismissed the claims of over-aggression, telling Italia1 television: "What a great race. I'm sorry Stoner complained. I understand our fight was very aggressive, but I think he complained most of all because he ended up behind. I'm very sad that he was angry at the beginning but I think after a race like this it's normal when you arrive behind.

"I think the battle was normal, I never touched him, I never ran wide. The overtaking moves were tough but I always passed under braking, which is where I'm stronger. This is racing and every overtake was very clear for me.

"The only time he tried to pass me he touched me with the wheel on the elbow, so I should be more upset than him!"

He was also quick to deny that he braked earlier than usual at the final corner on the lap of Stoner's fall.

"No, no, no. I never make this type of thinking in my career and I become angry if he says this," said Rossi. "I'm good to overtake, not to brake before. I think he made a mistake and you need to admit when you made a mistake. I didn't brake before, for sure. I didn't even know he crashed, I saw the next lap."

Rossi added that he was genuinely quick enough to win the race and warned Stoner that he is fighting hard to win the championship.

"I was going quick and, except on the front straight where the Ducati is a bit quicker than our bike, I don't think I was slowing him down. I wanted to win, Stoner cannot think we're here to play games: we're fighting to win, this is racing.

"I've been racing for a long time and, except for these last few years, I remember races to be like this and no one ever complained. Casey is very strong, but we are fast and we are ready for the battle."

The Italian went on to describe one of the moves that Stoner wasn't happy with, where Rossi squeezed past Stoner into the Corkscrew and bounced wide over the gravel as he dropped down the hill.

"It was fun, like an old style race with some hard overtaking back to back. That move was fantastic, he braked late but I braked even later. We went a bit wide but that's a peculiar corner so it can happen. When I realised I was going on the gravel I worried a bit, but the gravel here has good grip!

Stoner and Rossi argue over incidents - MotoGP - Autosport
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Even Motegi 2010 against Lorenzo, when Rossi was 31 years old, he had no problem racing Lorenzo extremely closely ultimately leading to contact. But because he was the one who came out favorably of the exchange with a gained position, he saw no problem with it. Sepang was the same thing. It was a battle he couldn't win because he was racing the one guy who had absolutely no fear of him. And Zarco is another one who I don't feel is enamored with the GOAT/legend stuff of Rossi hence why he had no problem going wheel-to-wheel with Rossi. But since Rossi wasn't looking to be challenged, he was unhappy with it, and made the reference about racing like it was Moto 2.
 
Rossi behavior is unsportsmanlike, this is well known fact, this is why people have turned away from him. Except some with yellow eyeglasses.
 
JPSLotus said:
What insult?

I'm going to make the same challenge I've always made to you: post something of substance instead of trotting out emoticons and sother vapid comments.
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What? Such as 'Rossi is a drama queen'
Class.
 
moto vudu said:
Now you have him talking about attempted murder... he thinks you're Marquez fan still cheering for him after he almost killed Willaroit.
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JPSLotus said:
Like you would know anything about class...actively cheering on a competitor who committed attempted murder on another rider.
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JPS, when will you realise that comedy just is not your forte? Stick to your serious stuff, at least that's funny!
 
Daniboy said:
JPS, when will you realise that comedy just is not your forte? Stick to your serious stuff, at least that's funny!
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We're all still waiting for you to make an intelligent post.

The thought of you being able to actually do that is pretty funny.

Anyway, do you have any intelligent thought to contribute regarding racing?
 
Please leave the personal attacks off the forum and keep the thread on topic.
 
duc said:
Please leave the personal attacks off the forum and keep the thread on topic.
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What about Chad Reed? Can I still call Chad Reed a ....? Would about retired riders like Stoner can we still debate if he is a .... of not?
 

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