Round 3: Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas 2017

p4p1 · Apr 23, 2017

Daniboy said:
Third place for third place, where exactly did he lose the place?

The fact Zarco was on the inside line probably in front and had picked Rossi up with a legal and fair racing move. Use your ....... brain for once, surely after a few years of watching racing you would understand that if not for the off track excursion Rossi would've been sitting behind Zarco.

Explain to me the difference of that move compared to Rossis move on Lorenzo in Misano?

danski · Apr 23, 2017

p4p1 said:
The fact Zarco was on the inside line probably in front and had picked Rossi up with a legal and fair racing move. Use your ....... brain for once, surely after a few years of watching racing you would understand that if not for the off track excursion Rossi would've been sitting behind Zarco.

Explain to me the difference of that move compared to Rossis move on Lorenzo in Misano?

About 5000 miles
:fishing1:

moto vudu · Apr 23, 2017

Mike Webb stated that he gave Rossi a 0.3 penalty to give back the time he gained on Marquez after cutting the S-curves. He understood Rossi was forced off track so the penalty wasn't meant to even anything with Zarco.

MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb has explained why Valentino Rossi was given a 0.3s penalty at Sunday's Austin race.

Rossi straight-lined one of the S-curves after an attempted pass by Johann Zarco resulted in contact between the pair.

The Italian re-joined the track still in third, but with a bigger advantage over Zarco and closer to Marc Marquez ahead of him.

MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb said: "The thinking behind the penalty was that you can't gain an advantage by leaving the track. There was clearly an advantage because he got closer to Marquez. So we negated that advantage.

"But on the other side, [Rossi] left the track involuntarily. Meaning he was forced off by another rider. If somebody did that deliberately and gained an advantage, the penalty would normally be more than the time they gained.

"In this case, it was clearly not his fault for going off track. But he also has an obligation to not gain an advantage out of that circumstance.

"Because it was clear to everyone, including Rossi, that he had gained on Marc the correct behavior is to realise that he has gained an advantage and give it back. Close the throttle and go back to the position he was before the turn, which was just in front of Zarco and nothing would have happened."

The penalty, to be applied at the end of the race, would only have changed the results if Rossi was less than 0.3s ahead of another competitor.

Ultimately, Rossi claimed second place by a margin of over two-seconds from Dani Pedrosa.
Read more at MotoGP News - MotoGP Americas: Race Director explains Rossi penalty

Iamapony · Apr 23, 2017

It's a LONG way from Laguna, I can tell ya' what. That was a more obvious penalty than this one, and yet, neither Rossi nor Marquez got anything. I am SOOO grateful that the .3 second wouldn't have had any impact on the results. Really. The gut wrenching arguing on this site alone would have given me a hernia.

Little Walter · Apr 23, 2017

Daniboy said:
Never, in the history of this forum, has so little been said.

You could type all day, and still have said nothing.

Keshav · Apr 23, 2017

p4p1 said:
And position. That's my issue is that he gained a position and was not penalised for gaining the position.

Hmm... just went and watched it again. Rossi didn't gain any position. He was leading when Zarco hit him. He went wide and regained the position he already had.

michaelm · Apr 23, 2017

Daniboy said:
Never, in the history of this forum, has so little been said.

If this is a self assessment of the vapidity of your own posts since joining the froum, I applaud the sudden increase in your level of insight.

Little Walter · Apr 23, 2017

Daniboy said:
About 5000 miles
:fishing1:

Diversion!

Keshav · Apr 23, 2017

p4p1 said:
The fact Zarco was on the inside line probably in front and had picked Rossi up with a legal and fair racing move. Use your ....... brain for once, surely after a few years of watching racing you would understand that if not for the off track excursion Rossi would've been sitting behind Zarco.

Explain to me the difference of that move compared to Rossis move on Lorenzo in Misano?

He doesn't do heavy lifting.

p4p1 · Apr 23, 2017

Rossi at the post race press conference said that Zarco is the problem and he's too aggressive. He's the last rider that should be complaining about another's aggressiveness.

I still believe he gained a position, Zarco put his bike on the inside Rossi should've picked up a bit and continued. He didn't he picked up and ran across the run off. People pick and choose when arguing about if it matters more to be in front or on the inside when arguing overtakes like this depending on who the rider is.

feros · Apr 23, 2017

Keshav said:
Could not make a judgement call re: Rossi being irresponsible or whatever. That said, when I saw how wide he went - my first thought was, he's too good a rider to get THAT thrown off by a bit of touch, and that he was likely, taking overmuch advantage of the incident. Even if that were not the case, I would agree with RD in that even if it's a given that he didn't exaggerate the cut-across, he did gain a few tenths that he didn't earn. I think it's that simple.

agreed, the post was an answer to the question; what other option rossi has in that situation, which was not turning and let zarco go since he had the inside line.

other than that there are only two ways to penalize in that situation, one is giving position back and the other is taking time away.they chose the second option cuz the gap was quiet massive and they took away the time he gained which was completely justified even if he exaggerated the cut across (imo; he did)

p4p1 said:
And position. That's my issue is that he gained a position and was not penalised for gaining the position.

let it go man, he didnt gain any position, if he was behind and made the pass by being off track, then maybe, but in this situation time reduction was the best choice.

and it is irrelevant, with or without that incident and penalty i dont think the outcome would be different.

p4p1 · Apr 23, 2017

Except not going off track was an option. COTA isn't a narrow circuit and he could've slowed and changed lines like nearly everyone he himself has picked up has done and carried. I'm sure he was going to get back past Zarco and still beat Pedrosa to the line either way but someone put their bike where he wanted to put his and he didn't like it and rode off track because as always he refuses to yeild. It's hard to see clearly from the video but Zarco looked at worst totally level with Rossi, not in front but not behind.

michaelm · Apr 23, 2017

Daniboy said:
Third place for third place, where exactly did he lose the place?

Doesn't seem to be the case in this instance given Rossi was forced off the track but you on a couple of occasions now seem to be unaware that maintaining a place by leaving the track is not allowed in addition to gaining a place by that means.

JohnnyKnockdown · Apr 23, 2017

Little Walter said:
You could type all day, and still have said nothing.

When is Lonely Walter going to stop trolling and start saying something

povol · Apr 23, 2017

Daniboy said:
Never, in the history of this forum, has so little been said.

Rossi cruising for podiums has seen him almost win the title in 15. He knows he can't run with Vinales and Marquez so it's a sound strategy that will keep him in the hunt, but ultimately will fall short .

feros · Apr 23, 2017

p4p1 said:
Except not going off track was an option. COTA isn't a narrow circuit and he could've slowed and changed lines like nearly everyone he himself has picked up has done and carried. I'm sure he was going to get back past Zarco and still beat Pedrosa to the line either way but someone put their bike where he wanted to put his and he didn't like it and rode off track because as always he refuses to yeild. It's hard to see clearly from the video but Zarco looked at worst totally level with Rossi, not in front but not behind.

ok,i know what youre saying, but i think this was a text book penalty situation, either give the position back or reduce time, i think in motogp the reduce the time which was gained during the incident ( unlike F1 where most of the time its fixed, like 5 sec or 10 sec ...etc penalty). they couldnt put him behind zarco cuz by the time they make the decision the gap was bigger that the advantage he gained (0.3").

JohnnyKnockdown · Apr 23, 2017

moto vudu said:
Mike Webb stated that he gave Rossi a 0.3 penalty to give back the time he gained on Marquez after cutting the S-curves. He understood Rossi was forced off track so the penalty wasn't meant to even anything with Zarco.

MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb has explained why Valentino Rossi was given a 0.3s penalty at Sunday's Austin race.

Rossi straight-lined one of the S-curves after an attempted pass by Johann Zarco resulted in contact between the pair.

The Italian re-joined the track still in third, but with a bigger advantage over Zarco and closer to Marc Marquez ahead of him.

MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb said: "The thinking behind the penalty was that you can't gain an advantage by leaving the track. There was clearly an advantage because he got closer to Marquez. So we negated that advantage.

"But on the other side, [Rossi] left the track involuntarily. Meaning he was forced off by another rider. If somebody did that deliberately and gained an advantage, the penalty would normally be more than the time they gained.

"In this case, it was clearly not his fault for going off track. But he also has an obligation to not gain an advantage out of that circumstance.

"Because it was clear to everyone, including Rossi, that he had gained on Marc the correct behavior is to realise that he has gained an advantage and give it back. Close the throttle and go back to the position he was before the turn, which was just in front of Zarco and nothing would have happened."

The penalty, to be applied at the end of the race, would only have changed the results if Rossi was less than 0.3s ahead of another competitor.

Ultimately, Rossi claimed second place by a margin of over two-seconds from Dani Pedrosa.
Read more at MotoGP News - MotoGP Americas: Race Director explains Rossi penalty

This is a reasonable explanation by race indirection, but then they are the same buffoons that impose ride thru's on jump starts, which gives you about the same advantage that rossi gained today.
Disclaimer: I am talking about the .3 advantage, not the tire advantage, Dorna advantage or the Boogeyman advantage

feros · Apr 23, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
This is a reasonable explanation by race indirection, but then they are the same buffoons that impose ride thru's on jump starts, which gives you about the same advantage that rossi gained today.
Disclaimer: I am talking about the .3 advantage, not the tire advantage, Dorna advantage or the Boogeyman advantage

i dont think the penalty for jump start is necessarily about the advantage you make, it is more about how it effect almost everyone behind you.

p4p1 · Apr 23, 2017

I just think Zarco was penalised for a legal move. Yes he forced Rossi off line but that's part of racing. Rossi is a smart guy he always manages to make these situations whether he's on the receiving end or not work to his advantage.

p4p1 · Apr 23, 2017

feros said:
i dont think the penalty for jump start is necessarily about the advantage you make, it is more about how it effect almost everyone behind you.

It's pretty harsh penalty though. It's great deterrent and forces the riders to be perfect with their starts.

Round 3: Red Bull Grand Prix of The Americas 2017

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