Rossi v Stoner: On the Ducati

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even though bridgestone allegedly take advise from all the top riders and even have an official advisor, i think they don't give a .... about what the riders think.



by ignoring the cold tyre concerns ,bridgestone was able to create tyres that allow for extreme performance for multiple race distances....compare that to wsbk where we all too often hear about the tyres "going off".



just look at f1 and compare what it was like with bridgestones and now with pirelli....



a tyre that is great for the show is not necessarily the best tyre available.and vice versa





as for ducati being "in trouble because of bridgestone"...are you f-ing kidding me?how can a single tyre rule be a disadvantage to them,especially when they have been with bridgestone for longer and have their poster boy as lead rider
 
As usual, some interesting takes and some truth on both sides of the fence.



Certainly one could say that VR 2011 has not matched CS' 2010 season to date on the Ducati, and yes some would well argue the converse to also be true, it is all dependent on one's take I guess.



It is true that some of VR's race times may have been faster across the distance than were CS in 2010, but all this proves is nothing in the wider scheme of things as it does not take into consideration the usual variables (ie. weather, temperature etc), all of which play their part.



But as a manufacturer do you want times or positions?



One could well argue that the fact that VR has been superior in 2011 to CS in 2010 as he has finished more races, again a total truism but upto and including round 10 the score is CS 2010 - 119 points whilst VR 2011 - 108 points. This to me indicates little again as it shows VR's consistent race results and finishes have not matched the inconsistent start of CS in 2010. Again, all up it means nothing and shows nothing but again, the question above arises in what manufacturers prefer position or points?



For mine, to date VR has done worse than I expected as I genuinely expected more even having my long held belief that 'CS+Ducati=Freak Performance' and is an anomoly in the wider scheme of things as he was able to produce results that flattered the machine.











Gaz
 
cliché guevara said:
rossi is the only rider on bridgestones payroll isn't he?^^
Click to expand...

Bridgestone Italy pay Rossi to help promote their road tires. Rossi does not work with Bridgestone Japan on the MotoGP tires.



Since MotoGP went to a spec tire, the Bridgestones have moved to be more suitable for all of the bikes. I asked one of the Bridgestone guys why the tires are the way that they are, and he said "these are the tires that a Grand Prix motorcycle requires." They are stiff because the chassis are all stiff, and can use the feel available from a very stiff tire.
 
oh,thanks for clearing that up.



i still don't get why the tires need to be so stiff,pirellis wsbk slicks are supposed to be supersoft compared to the bridgestones and there isn't a huge performance gap between wsbk and gps oO



i will never get bridgestones philosophy of making a tire last 40+ laps easily at the expense of feel and ability to get to heat in reasonable time in a reasonable manner (and i think this is ducatis problem if we are to believe that once brought up to temp the duc is much better)
 
Gaz said:
As usual, some interesting takes and some truth on both sides of the fence.



Certainly one could say that VR 2011 has not matched CS' 2010 season to date on the Ducati, and yes some would well argue the converse to also be true, it is all dependent on one's take I guess.



It is true that some of VR's race times may have been faster across the distance than were CS in 2010, but all this proves is nothing in the wider scheme of things as it does not take into consideration the usual variables (ie. weather, temperature etc), all of which play their part.



But as a manufacturer do you want times or positions?



One could well argue that the fact that VR has been superior in 2011 to CS in 2010 as he has finished more races, again a total truism but upto and including round 10 the score is CS 2010 - 119 points whilst VR 2011 - 108 points. This to me indicates little again as it shows VR's consistent race results and finishes have not matched the inconsistent start of CS in 2010. Again, all up it means nothing and shows nothing but again, the question above arises in what manufacturers prefer position or points?



For mine, to date VR has done worse than I expected as I genuinely expected more even having my long held belief that 'CS+Ducati=Freak Performance' and is an anomoly in the wider scheme of things as he was able to produce results that flattered the machine.











Gaz
Click to expand...

Rossi is right about where i predicted he would be at the start of the season. I think i said he would finish around 6th for the year, and if things stay to recent form, that is where he will finish. He has fallen to 5th, and will more than likely fall to 6th in the next 2-3 races.. I do find it ironic that the one person most responsible for the control tire,is the one suffering most from it. He did get 2 titles for his efforts, so i guess that is a good trade off.
 
OnlyOneRossi said:
I would just like to start off by complimenting you guys, as this is the best forum around in terms of reading others views on all things racing. I promise to try to add to that standard, although I still have alot to learn on the technical side of things.

The Rossi vs Stoner stats on the Ducati have been an interesting read so far, but their 2010 and 2011 seasons respectively are below their normal standards so for me its more about how Ducati can improve now and move forward.

What I want to know is whether anyone still thinks its the right choice to be using the GP11.1, and if thats really the way forward considering the fact that major revisions are maybe on the cards. I looked at the stats of how Rossi went on both bikes and it seems to me that his best results came on the old bike, he was also closer to the front and already battling with Dovi and Spies.



GP11



Qatar:

Race: +16 sec

Lap time: +0.687

Rossi to Hayden: +11 sec



Estoril:

Race: +16 sec

Lap time: +0.689

Rossi to Hayden: +38 sec



Le Mans:

Race: +14 sec

Lap time: +0.656

Rossi to Hayden: +21 sec



Catalunya:

Race: +7 sec

Lap time: +0.625

Rossi to Hayden: +26 sec



GP11.1



Assen:

Race: +30 sec

Lap time: +1.460

Rossi to Hayden: +12s



Mugello:

Race: +26 sec

Lap time: +0.899

Rossi to Hayden: +8s



Germany:

Race: +27 sec

Lap time: +0.956

Hayden to Rossi: +.066



Laguna:

Race: +30 sec

Lap time: +0.847

Rossi to Hayden: +0.7





For me his best performance was at Catalunya, not so much for the gap to the lead, but because he was in a race long battle with Dovi and Spies for the podium and finished about 3 sec off third. Dani wasn't there at that time, but battling for 4th is much more respectable than what they are going through right now. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

That's interesting. His performance on the GP11.1 has been inferior to the performance on the previous GP11.
 
RCV600RR said:
That's interesting. His performance on the GP11.1 has been inferior to the performance on the previous GP11.
Click to expand...



Thats because the GP11 was more closely related to the winningest bike in Motogp since 2007 ..... ie. the Ducatis that Stoner rode and provided development info for.
 
BarryMachine said:
Thats because the GP11 was more closely related to the winningest bike in Motogp since 2007 ..... ie. the Ducatis that Stoner rode and provided development info for.
Click to expand...

Stoner has won the most races, mainly on a ducati. Yamahas have won more races than ducatis.
 
spooky said:
I thought Ducati didnt listen Stoner, or anyone for that matter?
Click to expand...



Well thats not my Story ....... my Story is ...... that they are listening, but they have "no "f#%king idea" how to fix the problem", not the resources, nor the mindset to accept failure correctly ( ie. accept it and learn from it ).
 
BarryMachine said:
Well thats not my Story ....... my Story is ...... that they are listening, but they have "no "f#%king idea" how to fix the problem", not the resources, nor the mindset to accept failure correctly ( ie. accept it and learn from it ).
Click to expand...

Without Stoners absolute genius in the last 4 years I have doubts whether Ducati would still be in motogp.
 
michaelm said:
Stoner has won the most races, mainly on a ducati. Yamahas have won more races than ducatis.
Click to expand...





I did say "bike" Mike! not "bikes", I can't see how that can possibly be misconstrued
<
<
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if you wanna compare stoner vs rossi performace.



$ spent/point



$ spent/race win



$ spent per podium



$ spent per pole



and you got your answer
 
Pinky said:
if you wanna compare stoner vs rossi performace.



$ spent/point



$ spent/race win



$ spent per podium



$ spent per pole



and you got your answer
Click to expand...



let compare casey stoners repair bill to that number you just made up..............
 
the commentators was going on about how when they rolled out the 11.1 just before mugello, how they wouldnt care what happen for the rest of the season so long as they can win at mugello.



end of day comparing stoner to rossi's performance is just plain stupid. its night and day between the level of performance between both riders. anyone thinks rossi is riding the ducati near stoners level needs a reality check.



stoner managed poles, wins, fastest lap times. rossi has not come close to getting anything close, other than being a glorified test rider.



if stoner was riding around trying to get 5ths and 6ths, hoping the rest crash out for a podium, then i'm sure stoner could of done so last year, but no he was going for the championship, and later on wins.
 

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