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Haven't we all got better things to do with our lives than argue about this type of crap? Clearly not otherwise the forum wouldn't exist. Carry on.
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So to keep spelling it out for you, the comparison is fairest if comparing 2011 to 2010 not 2007.
Capirossi on Harada is the most disgusting move I have ever seen. Beyond cynical, beyond calculated, just plain ordinary corrupt and completely dangerous. They should have given Capirossi a one-year ban for that.
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Before you get too cocky, remember that both riders are only one crash away from never riding again.
In terms of excuses, Rossi doesn't get the feel he likes as a rider and the bike doesn't do the things he wants to do with it and therefore he doesn't like it, and isn't riding as quick as he could. Stoner was younger and crazier so he did things differently, probably a bit stupidly as one crash could have ended it all. It didn't though so it's probably more about good luck than good management.
Many punters have this viewpoint, and Rossi has confirmed the opinion a few times now. Stoner with Rossi for me, are two of the luckiest riders in Motogp, so far Stoner's crashes have not brought any really
really serious injuries, much like as Rossi was for most of his career. If anything one of the worst crashes I've ever seems was Stoner's high side in Germany this year on the Honda, whilst he did sustain
a neck injury, he was relatively very lucky. Especially when considering one of his current HRC teammates luck when crashing.
As with a lot of Stoners low-sides on the Ducati, none of which brought any serious wrist, hand, finger, ankle problems like these types of crashes so often do. The barrage of rubbish being spewed on this
comparison, doesn't really factor in the very valid point of danger, Rossi knows where the limit is most of the time, the fact that he refuses to even attempt to ride the Ducati the way that Stoner did is, in my opinion a direct result of two things.
1- He probably can't replicate the style well enough without seriously risking crashing after so many years on Honda's and Yamaha's, and therefore won't
and
2- Ultimately Stoner's style on the Ducati was also flawed with a fairly miserable 2010 falling well short of expectations, leaving no reason to pursue anything other than modifying the bike to be more predictable.
At this point it is impossible to say that Rossi has failed on the Ducati, as it is not over yet, however it is safe to say that he cannot ride it as successfully as Stoner did. And before I get Rossi fans up in arms, this
really only means that Stoner's style suited the Ducati, at present at Brno, Dani's style seems to be suiting the Honda better than Stoner's. And who knows how Stoner's style would translate to a bike like the M1,
with its high corner speed and linear power delivery requiring a much smoother approach than either the Ducati or Honda.
The Point being that none of this is as black and white as some are making out, and that all of the Aliens are incredible talents who on their day, are completely unbeatable. This is what is making for one of the most interesting
seasons for a while, now if they could just bring another tyre supplier into the mix, and give the bikes some more fuel...
woody996, you have to be kidding me???
‘Stoner was younger and crazier so he did things differently, probably a bit stupidly as one crash could have ended it all. It didn't though so it's probably more about good luck than good management’
Are you serious? I think you are because nothing could be further from the truth, Stoner was always quick and never lucky he just rode and extracted all that he rode prior and with the Ducati and he’s still doing it now on the LCR and even on the LCR in 06 where he did get one poll even though he didn’t win any races that year.
I think you should go back and look at history because if you really believe that statement that you have made then I’m afraid you have been looking at the wrong races or you don’t understand motogp! The simple fact is that Rossi can’t ride a bike that is not an easyrider and now that Stoner is on the LCR its about time that he had all the technology and Rossi have what Stoner had in the past, but Stoner won a W/C and Rossi has buckles and none of winning a W/C with the way he’s riding the Ducati. No matter JB and they do at Ducati...its not the bike its the rider that is the problem at Ducati! The Ducati needs a man on a horse not a monkey on a stick baba baba babammm!!!
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The luck comes in as to what happened once stoner came off the ducati. I'm not doubting Stoner's skill on the bike.
I do think that stoner wouldn't be leading the championship if Pedrosa hadn't had his altercation with simoncelli though. Pedrosa has outpaced stoner when he has been fit. What does this say about Pedrosa in comparison to stoner? End of the day, they both have a shitload of talent but I don't put stoner ahead except when it comes to what happens when they both fall off. Stoner then has luck on his side whereas Pedrosa seems to have none.
I do think that stoner wouldn't be leading the championship if Pedrosa hadn't had his altercation with simoncelli though. Pedrosa has outpaced stoner when he has been fit. What does this say about Pedrosa in comparison to stoner? End of the day, they both have a shitload of talent but I don't put stoner ahead except when it comes to what happens when they both fall off. Stoner then has luck on his side whereas Pedrosa seems to have none.
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Are you talps or Rob?
You need to check the results on this year so far in order to see what a stupid post you have made.
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Thats a new one. Next time you see Stoner will you please tell him "Yeah. Obviously your luck outweighed your talent". (Edit) would suggest you keep your helmet on.
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Thats a new one. Next time you see Stoner will you please tell him "Yeah. Obviously your luck outweighed your talent".
How do you think Pedrosa would have gone if he had that highside stoner did a few weeks ago? When I talk about luck, I talk about what happens when they are off their bikes. Nothing unreasonable about that.
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Yes of course you are right. How far ahead was stoner when Pedrosa was injured. Silly me.
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Yes Stoner was very 'lucky' it was Rossi that ran into him not Simmo!
You say it as a joke/sarcastic but it could very well be true.
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I'm not finished, he was 'lucky' the marshalls pushed Rossi back into the race and not Stoner.
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Ok I'll post something more reasonable. Imo Pedro has proved that he's a match for Stoner and may even be better on his day. But I'm happy that Stoner has proved he's a match for Pedro and may even be better on his day.
If Stoner is lucky this year then Lorenzo was lucky last year and Rossi was lucky the year before and the year before that. So to be world champion we have established there needs to be some good luck, not bad luck.
If Stoner is lucky this year then Lorenzo was lucky last year and Rossi was lucky the year before and the year before that. So to be world champion we have established there needs to be some good luck, not bad luck.
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woody996, you have to be kidding me???
‘Stoner was younger and crazier so he did things differently, probably a bit stupidly as one crash could have ended it all. It didn't though so it's probably more about good luck than good management’
Are you serious? I think you are because nothing could be further from the truth, Stoner was always quick and never lucky he just rode and extracted all that he rode prior and with the Ducati and he’s still doing it now on the LCR and even on the LCR in 06 where he did get one poll even though he didn’t win any races that year.
I think you should go back and look at history because if you really believe that statement that you have made then I’m afraid you have been looking at the wrong races or you don’t understand motogp! The simple fact is that Rossi can’t ride a bike that is not an easyrider and now that Stoner is on the LCR its about time that he had all the technology and Rossi have what Stoner had in the past, but Stoner won a W/C and Rossi has buckles and none of winning a W/C with the way he’s riding the Ducati. No matter JB and they do at Ducati...its not the bike its the rider that is the problem at Ducati! The Ducati needs a man on a horse not a monkey on a stick baba baba babammm!!!
If you learn to read properly, you will see that the luck being mentioned here is referring to injuries after crashing. Stoner has wound up on his arse plenty in his career, and as has been pointed out, has suffered nothing of the injuries of Pedrosa for example.
Some truth in what you say from your biased viewpoint in my biased view, but I don't agree with all of this. Stoner is definitely better at riding ducatis than rossi on available evidence, including valentino and jb's statements that valentino can't replicate stoner's riding style,and no apologias from rossi fans change this. Sure it could be due to a unique synergy with the bike. As I also keep saying the 2009 bike was competitive, the 2010 bike wasn't, but the 2010 bike was deliberately developed away from stoner, perhaps in anticipation of valentino. That ducati got this badly wrong doesn't have much to do with stoner imo. Would their relative performance on ducatis transfer to the yamaha honed by rossi over the years for himself? Quite likely not.
Pedrosa's frequent injuries are imo a matter of protoplasm, not luck. It really sucks for him, but he just doesn't bounce. Stoner mostly has low sides at not very high speeds, and definitely bounces better than dani in addition. He also has had significant wrist injuries, despite extraordinary and delusional conclusions drawn to the contrary by a certain element among fandom in 2008, and has had a significant shoulder injury for which he had off-season surgery but just didn't talk about much, despite apparently being a whinger who invents injury and illness to justify himself. Speaking of such things there are some doubtless il-informed people who also think his 2009 season may have been affected by health issues. Rossi's lack of significant injuries over most of his long career has much more to do with talent than luck. His accidents, less frequent anyway, mainly seem to be at low speed and due to concentration lapses rather than when he is really pushing, and he also seems to have resilient protoplasm.
Dani is a very fast and talented rider but to say he is intrinsically faster or better than stoner due to performances at one track (and only in practice thus far) isn't valid imo. He was faster than anyone including valentino and stoner at individual tracks even when his bike was less competitive over the whole 800 era, and by your argument lorenzo is intrinsically better than valentino because valentino couldn't touch him at a few tracks in 2009 (if you ignore performances at all the other tracks). Dani is also riding a bike he has ridden for the previous 4 years at most of these tracks, and it applies equally to stoner as it does to rossi that he is riding a bike that requires a very different style than his previous bike.
Stoner and pedrosa would undoubtedly be closer in the points if dani had ridden all the races (this does not require a great intuitive leap in logic) but the very likely 29 additional points in comparison to dani that stoner would have due to to the rossi take-out in a collision that he bears less responsibilty for than pedrosa does for the simoncelli imbroglio imo also applies, and dani and stoner may well have also ridden differently subsequently if circumstances/points were different.
Not necessarily applicable to you in particular, but again all sorts of excuses apply for other riders, but stoner's health and injury problems, riding a new bike at most tracks this year etc are dismissed, and he and he alone is singled out as having bike advantages.
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Sadly you have to understand that not everyone understands a simple statement like you made.
Try posting "Stoner is good" or "Stoner is he new Doohan", "Vegemite rocks" or "Scott and Charlene" and some of the less sharp tools may (I state the word may..........) understand.
Apologies to Andy Roo, no offence meant mate, always nice to have a bit of sense in the bombardment we get from our friends down under
The thing about prejudice/bias is that it cuts both ways, however intelligent and witty the party involved.
Some of we uncomprehending antipodeans (obviously not including woody, also I understand from these parts) think you guys are getting rather desperate these days for avenues of attack on stoner . Detracting from his performances on the basis that he didn't get as injured from a highside as you think he should have would certainly qualify as desperate by most standards.
I won't go too much into how when he does get injured, as he did from that highside at least as much as jorge did from his at laguna seca, it is usually dismissed as whinging fakery,.
