Joined Jun 2008
2K Posts | 6+
America
See David's latest discussion on the laptimes. It's an excellent article; well researched, well explained.
http://motomatters.com/opinion/2011/09/27/the_fog_of_war_just_how_do_rossi_s_and_s.html
http://motomatters.com/opinion/2011/09/27/the_fog_of_war_just_how_do_rossi_s_and_s.html
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
How?
" Until then, we can only wait, and speculate".
Rumor and speculation needs no explanation
How?
How?
You are truly beyond belief. How is it a well-explained article? This is the last thread in which I will accommodate your infantile requests for explanation which can be satisfied by someone of average intellect.
The difficulties associated in gaining reliable information in the laptimes achieved by the relevant parties are clearly outlined in this article. It then goes on to make a critical, analysis of each source and the relative utility (or, where necessary, lack thereof) and makes the tentative conclusions which can be justified after analysing each source.
With great respect to david emmett, the most reliable and even handed motogp source on the internet imo, I suspect barry's point is that pretty well any observer of the sport could have drawn the same conclusion that david ultimately did without recourse to anything presented in his article ie that it is impossible to know what the times mean, even if we really knew what they were.
I am happy to go with David's subsidiary point ie that the apparently well validated beaming smile from valentino may be a better indication of his prospects; there is precedent from stoner's first ride on the honda post jerez 2010
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Motomatters has the merit of dedicating attention to Ducati, -- including probably the best evaluation of Ducati's technical issues on the net -- and that deserves credit. Why? Because Ducati is the only non-Japanese manufacturer left in MotoGP, a species running the risk of extinction -- and that's a very good reason to care (and wish Ducati.good luck).
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
" Until then, we can only wait, and speculate".
Rumor and speculation needs no explanation
Precisely
Though it would seem RCV.... wanted it spelled out for him
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
The one thing with being somewhat "Aspergic" and highly "misanthropic", to the point of few words, is that I am unable to verbalize things like the above for myself. But can we rub out the Michaelm name there and put in my name ........
Motomatters has the merit of dedicating attention to Ducati, -- including probably the best evaluation of Ducati's technical issues on the net -- and that deserves credit. Why? Because Ducati is the only non-Japanese manufacturer left in MotoGP, a species running the risk of extinction -- and that's a very good reason to care (and wish Ducati.good luck).
Sure the motomatters site is great and david emmett wholly praiseworthy for the public service he performs, with reference to ducati and pretty well everything else pertaining to motogp. Petty allegiances aside ducati and valentino not doing well is disastrous for motogp, and I join you and david in hoping that rossi's apparently broad smile after testing the aluminium thing is indicative of better prospects.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
I generally agree with pretty much most things you say Michael but I dont agree with the premise that Valentino Rossi "not doing well is disastrous for motogp". I fail to see how one particular rider should have so much influence over the fortunes of the premiere series of motorcycle racing and if so why was this situation allowed to occur in the first place? The old saying "putting all your eggs in one basket" springs to mind.
This is perhaps one of the reasons why we are seeing people delight in Rossi's misfortunes and why many have questioned the equity within the sport over the last few years. There has been a backlash because of a "perceived" bending of the rules to accommodate one individual. The fact that the testing period has now been extended for next year is perhaps another example that some will point to as evidence yet again of this unfair influence. Would we see this rule implemented if Rossi had remained at Yamaha and was still competitive? Personally I dont think so but I also think the restricted testing regulations are a joke and have not acheived their intended objectives so I actually have no problem with them being relaxed or abolished.
I also think seeing one particularly dominant yet unpopular rider caning off into the distance on a regular basis would have a far more detrimental effect on the popularity of the series long term but I also dont want to see rules emerge designed to counter peoples "boredom" with the current racing as this class has always been about "best rider+best bike+best luck=domination".
I for one want complete parity and transparency in the rules of engagement and if that means Rossi is floundering mid pack then so be it. Of course I will now be labelled a "hater" by the Rossi zealots for expressing this opinion but the fact is I couldnt care less about Valentino Rossi and his current misfortunes as they are totally dependent on his own decisions and are a result of his over inflated ego. You reap what you sow.
As for Ducati I wish them every success in their attempts to fix the problems with their current bike and I completely agree that Ducati failing "is disastrous for motogp".
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Squiz, my friend, I agreed with much of ur post, except the dig that smacks of 'holy than thou'; it seems u hav suddenly found a fondness for the current rules. Just about everybody has condemned the preponderance of electronics and lack of torque in the current formula. Which has been blamed by all, riders, media, & spectators for the lack of close racing, or as some would like it to be called "typical" (God forgive those using the "B" word). U and a few others who are now enjoying their guy win seem to suddenly express over and over that u wouldnt like to see the rules changed to make the racing closer...now. U invoke ur love for the formula at its current state on the pseudo-lofty grounds that changing it would amount to caving into those 'less than thou' fans that cite lack of close racing; that is, those the u are better than. One thing i had not anticipated is that the anti-boppers would exibit similar rationalizations once it was their guy winning.
I did say ducati and rossi and the two are inter-related; rossi not doing well on a ducati makes it more disastrous for ducati. The demise of ducati would pretty much be the end of motogp unless the CRT bikes are better than expected and do well from the get-go.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I want rossi to be back at the front beating stoner, but I think having him competing back at the front would be good for pretty well all parties, even for stoner as it would add merit to any championship(s) he might win. Whilst an element among his fans might be deserving of payback, and he may have exhibited some hubris, I would consider any view that his performances this year rather than all his previous success reflects his true level of talent to be rather jaundiced (so to speak), although it does suggest as I have said before that what stoner did on the bike was exceptional. Conceding that his current circumstance was of his own contrivance, do you really think he wouldn't be right up there on a factory honda or yamaha?
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Squiz, my friend, I agreed with much of ur post, except the dig that smacks of 'holy than thou'; it seems u hav suddenly found a fondness for the current rules. Just about everybody has condemned the preponderance of electronics and lack of torque in the current formula. Which has been blamed by all, riders, media, & spectators for the lack of close racing, or as some would like it to be called "typical" (God forgive those using the "B" word). U and a few others who are now enjoying their guy win seem to suddenly express over and over that u wouldnt like to see the rules changed to make the racing closer...now. U invoke ur love for the formula at its current state on the pseudo-lofty grounds that changing it would amount to caving into those 'less than thou' fans that cite lack of close racing; that is, those the u are better than. One thing i had not anticipated is that the anti-boppers would exibit similar rationalizations once it was their guy winning.
Point me to a single post where I have ever been inconsistent on this point - bet you cant
I have always stated that the rules should never be manipulated to produce artificially close racing. Look back at my posting history and you will see that I have always maintained this stance. I will happily apologise and concede you were actually correct after all if you can do prove me wrong
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Squiz, so then u think the current formula is perfect, and hav never had an issue with it? I dont need to look it up if thats what ur claiming. Ive heard enuf. Here is what u and a few others who are lathering up ur lofty "im not bored" campaign dont get; that formulas are not some perfect thing handed down from heaven like mana. It can produce close and processional racing. The current one is producing processional racing. Newsflash, a rules formula is created by men and produces a resulting type of racing. Do u understand logic? Or are u gonna shelve it as "Jumkie logic"?
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Absolutely 100% Vale would be fighting at the front on a factory Yamaha or Honda. You dont gain the success he has achieved by being "lucky" nine times. I have no problem giving him his cudos for his amazing career and skill on a motorbike - only a nincompoop would say otherwise...but rather I take exception to the zealots who have sought to denigrate the achievements of other riders and belittle their talent when compared to "the great one".
This is the main reason why I have enjoyed this season immensely....it has shown categorically that WITHOUT the right tools he is not the supreme god of motorcycling that many have intimated over the years and is in fact mid-pack with all the other riders who have slung a leg over the Duke bar one person....the guy who so many slated as "mentally weak", "sub par in development skills" and a "serial crasher". With the evidence before them many still attempt to make excuses for Rossi and his sub par Ducati experience but the damage is done and Rossis reputation has been forever tarnished....so much for the GOAT hey?
The fact we see so many grown men crying about this reversal of fortune is of great comedic value to me and a source of much mirth. I wont lose any sleep if it continues
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Squiz, so then u think the current formula is perfect, and hav never had an issue with it? I dont need to look it up if thats what ur claiming. Ive heard enuf. Here is what u and a few others who are lathering up ur lofty "im not bored" campaign dont get; that formulas are not some perfect thing handed down from heaven like mana. It can produce close and processional racing. The current one is producing processional racing. Newsflash, a rules formula is created by men and produces a resulting type of racing. Do u understand logic? Or are u gonna shelve it as "Jumkie logic"?
Dude I have never layed claim to knowing how to fix all of MGP's current ills....and ad hominem argumentum does not sit well with me so answer the question and dont attack me as if I have zero credibility on this point and have been inconsistent in all of my previous posts.
As I have already stated (which you conveniently ignored) show me a single post I have made where I have ever stated the rules should be changed to produce closer racing in THIS particular prototype racing series because I am "bored" with who is winning. If you can I will admit you are right...if not STFU
Absolutely 100% Vale would be fighting at the front on a factory Yamaha or Honda. You dont gain the success he has achieved by being "lucky" nine times. I have no problem giving him his cudos for his amazing career and skill on a motorbike - only a nincompoop would say otherwise...but rather I take exception to the zealots who have sought to denigrate the achievements of other riders and belittle their talent when compared to "the great one".
This is the main reason why I have enjoyed this season immensely....it has shown categorically that WITHOUT the right tools he is not the supreme god of motorcycling that many have intimated over the years and is in fact mid-pack with all the other riders who have slung a leg over the Duke bar one person....the guy who so many slated as "mentally weak", "sub par in development skills" and a "serial crasher". With the evidence before them many still attempt to make excuses for Rossi and his sub par Ducati experience but the damage is done and Rossis reputation has been forever tarnished....so much for the GOAT hey?
The fact we see so many grown men crying about this reversal of fortune is of great comedic value to me and a source of much mirth. I wont lose any sleep if it continues
Gretzky?
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Squiz, so then u think the current formula is perfect, and hav never had an issue with it? I dont need to look it up if thats what ur claiming. Ive heard enuf. Here is what u and a few others who are lathering up ur lofty "im not bored" campaign dont get; that formulas are not some perfect thing handed down from heaven like mana. It can produce close and processional racing. The current one is producing processional racing. Newsflash, a rules formula is created by men and produces a resulting type of racing. Do u understand logic? Or are u gonna shelve it as "Jumkie logic"?
You really need to follow speedway Jum.
MGP has never been about "close racing". Its prototype racing, where they are constantly trying to find an advantage over the other bikes/rider combo. You need a homologated series like say the Pee Wee cup. where all the bikes are produced the same ......... result ....... is generally pretty bike independent.
Expecting close racing, and indeed whining about it, from a series not designed to give "close racing" is just banging your head against a brick wall.
It also stuns me that so many claim to be fans of "close racing" ......... in any race I ever entered, it was never a goal "lets all go out there and swap position right up till the end of the race!!" what an absolutely idiotic proposition. In reality I guess it shows the predominance of fans these days who have absolutely no empathy for the riders/racers at all. HTF can you ever appreciate racing if you have absolutely no idea of what each rider/racer is attempting to do!?
Close racing ........ pffft ..... get real ! Buy a slot car set and have the cars linked to lap around side by side if thats how you get your kicks.
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