I think that is more a case of Ducati saying the bike is fine when it clearly wasn't. If they were prepared to listen to the riders & try to engineer solutions from when the 800's were implemented, I think they would be a lot further ahead of where they have ended up.
I think that is more a case of Ducati saying the bike is fine when it clearly wasn't. If they were prepared to listen to the riders & try to engineer solutions from when the 800's were implemented, I think they would be a lot further ahead of where they have ended up.
There is more to innovation than building a bike, do you think about what you read? Innovation in tyre selection, innovation in setup, innovation in strategy, all dealing with the team. All crushed do to regs. Simple enough?
Ducati have innovated previously, and we're subsequently uncompetative, thus regs creating a need for conformity and killing innovation.
Regs have killed team innovation and manufacturer innovation IMO.
There is no doubt at this point in time that rossi is not the best ducati rider of all time, and that stoner is, and this situation would seem unlikely to change this year or next. The drawing of more widespread conclusions based on rossi's performance late in his career on a bike antithetical to his (and thus far pretty well everyone else's other than stoner's) riding style is more problematic, imo. Conclusions about there being an element of hubris in his decision to go to ducati, perhaps not so much.
You know Mental better than he knows himself! And thats saying something as we all know Mental's got his head up his own ... most of the time!!
Check out Kropos Site, one little harmless yet very true critique from Krop of Stoner, and he's caused an uproar amongst the Boners, Hilarious-Krops not too popular in OZ.
And MickM, I never said that anyone deliberately changed regs to favor Stoner, I only said that the regs did favor him. The Regs were changed for Honda and Dani, Stoner and Ducati were the highly unlikely beneficiary.
Personally, I feel as though Rossi would be better off to retire if the bike continues along its current path, I don't feel as though a rider and crew like Rossi's can compete anymore with the regs that we have in place, which are designed to crush innovation.
Their talent lies in their ability to dial up solutions on a race weekend-to suit the circuit and conditions, which requires a flexible equipment supply approach. This is not possible anymore, and certainly not with Ducati, who are still well behind-but thats what happens when you play against the ones who made the rules......
I take it you agree with the rest of david emmett's article, then
As some also said though he is what he is, could not be like valentino rossi personality-wise if he tried, and it would be fake for him to try.
I was exaggerating in regard to your comment about the rule changes helping stoner in 2007, but you still imo have an underlying agenda of discrediting stoner's titles with which I disagree. This is independent of any argument about the msma and dorna having stuffed up the rules, particularly the tyre rules, concerning which I agree with you.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
I take it you agree with the rest of david emmett's article, then? The exception that was taken to basically one line in what was a paean of praise of stoner was amusing, particularly since as some stoner fans pointed out stoner himself has indicated that he doesn't want to do PR work and doesn't like it, has even offered to accept a pay-cut to avoid it, and would very likely agree he is not good at it anyway.
As some also said though he is what he is, could not be like valentino rossi personality-wise if he tried, and it would be fake for him to try.
I was exaggerating in regard to your comment about the rule changes helping stoner in 2007, but you still imo have an underlying agenda of discrediting stoner's titles with which I disagree. This is independent of any argument about the msma and dorna having stuffed up the rules, particularly the tyre rules, concerning which I agree with you.
Some of Kropos opinions in that piece I disagree with, but I found it indicative of what the majority (not you of course-you are rare and exemplary) of Stoner Fans have become, if Jorge continued on his Qatar form for the last two races, I'm sure their attitudes would be far different in regards to the spectacle.
One line in the article prompted most of the reaction, and very little is/was being said about the adoring praise Kropo heaped on one Casey Stoner at the same time. Says a lot.......
If you take it that my stating that Stoner benefited hugely from Reg changes as discrediting his title in 07, then so be it-on this occasion it wasn't my intention, the regs happened, the title stands, he still rode the Duck, and BS's far better than anyone else that year-and the others were caught with their pants down, and Michelin couldn't adjust to the Bridgestone style tyre supply reg implemented that year. When the other manufacturers caught up and got Bridgestones, Ducati / Stoner combo never came close to winning another title-which was also due in part, rather ironically, to more regs. My point always was that Stoner did benefit greatly from the reg changes back then, for without the regs I don't believe he would have had the success he did-not discounting what happened just offering hypothetical's, and what happened after as reasoning for my opinion.
I do believe Stoner shouldn't really be up in arms about the potential for more changes to the rules, as the majority of observers agree that a lot more needs to be done, currently its not working too well-and it will only get worse if it remains the same, we have processional/predictable racing, which despite Dorna's best efforts remains fairly unchanged since 2007-riders and fans calling for less electronics, less factory bikes than ever, less prototypes than ever (if you can call them that anymore), Factory teams unable to find title sponsorship, Some of the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturing corporations not interested in competing at all, and a CRT class which is turning out to be a bit of a joke......
Just shows what you know! Rossi is in negotiations to retain his services for next year as a replacement for JB.
Apparently he has to convince the Papal convocation that any rumours about Uccio are unfounded before they will agree to the contract. Vale has been scouring the newspapers for evidence of his heterosexuality, to little avail.
Things are looking grim in Bologna...
The only thing it is indicative of is that there are a lot of people that could do with improving their reading comprehension.
I read the article. I am a Stoner fan. I didn't post anything because there was nothing needed to say. I think you will find that the majority of people that read that article would feel the same.
147 comments out of the how many thousands that would have read it, does not make it indicative of the majority of Stoner fans, just the verbal diarrhoea of some ignorant fanboys.
In fact, very similar to the kind of thing you seem to post with monotonous regularity.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
WTF drugs are you on Michael!!?? what has any of what you wrote got to do with what I wrote? This ain't the Yellow Community and folk say it as it is, if you can't cope with that ...... chuck a huge spatty ....... oh wait ..... you have.
Wow, the tyre rules were changed so that Rossi couldn't have his specifically made tyres based on feedback from FP's flown in over night for the race and it was Stoner who benefited from the rule changes.
Am I missing something here? If that is at all true then what Talpa is saying is that Dorna took away Rossi's advantage. So do we have an admission from Bopper Member #1 that all of Rossi's Michelin shod titles were achieved because Rossi had an advantage? It seems logical to me that if Stoner had an advantage in 2007 due to tyre regs than Rossi had an advantage in 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005. As soon as that advantage was taken away he was unable to compete until Dorna stepped in the following year and blackmailed BS into giving Rossi back the advantage whilst removing it from Stoner.
Finally something I can agree with Talpa on: Rossi's 4 championships won on SNS Michelins were won because Rossi had a tyre advantage. And without an advantage Rossi can't win.
Am I missing something here? If that is at all true then what Talpa is saying is that Dorna took away Rossi's advantage. So do we have an admission from Bopper Member #1 that all of Rossi's Michelin shod titles were achieved because Rossi had an advantage? It seems logical to me that if Stoner had an advantage in 2007 due to tyre regs than Rossi had an advantage in 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005. As soon as that advantage was taken away he was unable to compete until Dorna stepped in the following year and blackmailed BS into giving Rossi back the advantage whilst removing it from Stoner.
Finally something I can agree with Talpa on: Rossi's 4 championships won on SNS Michelins were won because Rossi had a tyre advantage. And without an advantage Rossi can't win.
The post was such a revelation the world wide web thought it should be posted twice. I agree but I know how fragile Talpa is so I have removed the double.
If the Papal ever finds out how many Male Boppers whack off to their Rossi posters he stands no chance!
WTF drugs are you on Michael!!?? what has any of what you wrote got to do with what I wrote? This ain't the Yellow Community and folk say it as it is, if you can't cope with that ...... chuck a huge spatty ....... oh wait ..... you have.
Don't whinge at me cos I don't suck up the fairytales.
Alcohol and caffeine are the only drugs I imbibe, including a modicum but not an excessive amount of the former (a new zealand pinot as it happens) last night. I was over the top I will concede, but I am very weary of continuous rossi bad/stoner good posts here and elsewhere, just as I was of similarly constant rossi good/stoner bad posts in the past, and you bore the brunt. I actually agree with pete that you are a clever and knowledgeable man, and as I have said quite often enjoy your posts other than the rossi bad/stoner good ones, whether or not the latter are mainly a wind-up as well may be the case.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Do we have to hear this kind of bullshite in 2012? Michelin made the same tires available to (at least) both Honda and Yamaha factory teams. The same 'saturday night special' services were customized for both. Can anybody really think that Honda would have tolerated being discriminated by Michelin in such a gross way? Give us (and yourself) a break...
Do we have to hear this kind of bullshite in 2012? Michelin made the same tires available to (at least) both Honda and Yamaha factory teams. The same 'saturday night special' services were customized for both. Can anybody really think that Honda would have tolerated being discriminated by Michelin in such a gross way? Give us (and yourself) a break...
I know Jarno, what do you call someone who is obsessed by not 1 but 2 riders? Uberbopper? He cant write a post without mentioning both riders!
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
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