ROSSI THREATENS WITHDRAW

Bunyip said:

...


ps. I am still struggling to understand how you could sit idly by while Keshav was being hounded, and then put a boot in as well , while he was still on the ground.

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I see, you want your own personal explanation. You want him to summarize for you in a special way because you don't want to go back and read pages of pages and threads upon threads of how we got to this point.

Why don't you go back and read the forum from about a year ago until now. Then if you arrive at the same conclusion then just accept it and move on like the rest of us had from this thread. Go back and read then shut up.

He has explained it sufficiently, but you must have gone back a few posts, failed to do your homework, blew an aneurysm, then started spouting off ignorantly without any self control into a thread (that has had plenty of precursors on the subject) that had died. You let your old emotions get the best of you, wouldn't be the first time.

As you say, you're still struggling to understand. Quite correct.

Bunyip said:

Stop the crap guys. Enough is enough.

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Very genuine of you. You clearly want to be the voice of reason. Now how do you plan on taking the high road after following it up with attacks? You never did intend it, so now let's walk the low road together. You fool.

michaelm said:

So you made the profound leap in logic that I am older than you after I told you I had followed the punk movement, reference to which you would seem to think confers on you some sort of cachet, at its actual time (Einstein will be quaking in his grave at being so comprehensively eclipsed), and this allows you to self proclaim victory in a debate you claim we were having?

Woe is me. I am totally undone. What a trap you laid for me.

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What are you debating here? You attacked me for no reason. After exposing the lie that you don't go ad .... you proceed to talk some irrelevant .... about music. To what end? (Rhetorical question).


You might use some big words but you don't really have anything to say at all in this exchange.
You say one thing and do the other. You don't make assumptions about character?then what is it you keep doing by mouthing off someone you don't even know ?
I was ready to give you kudos for realizing you were wrong but the back paddling threw that out the window.
Too bad.
I can sort of see how a sense of loyalty would prompt one to just attack but how you feel that i pissed on your leg when it is solely you who went personal is totally beyond me.
Who cares. Life's too short for this
Your loss that you insist on making yourself look like a self absorbed ..... Comes with the territory i guess.
I,like others, mistook your gift of the silver tongue as a mark of wisdom. Being erudite is just a great mean of masking the absence of coherent thought and indeed character.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Feel free to not even reply to this. I won't be bothered to go back 10 pages to prove my point again. Its all there to read. I don't feel like adding another flame war to this forum. Its tiresome for others and showing you up truly don't add inches to my .....

Jumks,
thankyou for your kind words.

I really don,t know what has happened to you. You have (or did) have quite a fine mind and I found that I agreed with you on most political/ topical subjects. However I don,t understand where this vitriol has emanated from. Maybe there are home/ work/ relationship issues, that most of have to some degree. I have had my fair share, and my apparently slashed wrists attest to that, but I think you should be aware that you have progressed beyond the point where most of us would want to be. I say that as a person who comes here to share a common interest in motogp racing and enjoys your posts that happen to be informative.
Although , not a particularly brave person, I could not sit idly by while a forum member, who I respect greatly, was subject to constant harassment by yourself and cohorts. I am probably one of the older members here, being over 60, and felt a duty to call out infantile behaviour. I believe Keshav is of a similar age, and should not have been subject to the treatment for many reasons. I know this all blew up because of personality clashes at a forum re-union years ago, but for Christs sake, move on. If I am now the butt of your vitriol , I am kinda happy, because at least it has forced a rethink.
Your previous response has not addressed my question as to why you stirred this up all over again. It appears that, as is the internet norm, when you are devoid of excuses, you resort to personal attack. I thought you could do better than that. Please start again and lets see what you are capable of (in a good way)

Bunyip said:

Jumks,
thankyou for your kind words.

I really don,t know what has happened to you. You have (or did) have quite a fine mind and I found that I agreed with you on most political/ topical subjects. However I don,t understand where this vitriol has emanated from. Maybe there are home/ work/ relationship issues, that most of have to some degree. I have had my fair share, and my apparently slashed wrists attest to that, but I think you should be aware that you have progressed beyond the point where most of us would want to be. I say that as a person who comes here to share a common interest in motogp racing and enjoys your posts that happen to be informative.
Although , not a particularly brave person, I could not sit idly by while a forum member, who I respect greatly, was subject to constant harassment by yourself and cohorts. I am probably one of the older members here, being over 60, and felt a duty to call out infantile behaviour. I believe Keshav is of a similar age, and should not have been subject to the treatment for many reasons. I know this all blew up because of personality clashes at a forum re-union years ago, but for Christs sake, move on. If I am now the butt of your vitriol , I am kinda happy, because at least it has forced a rethink.
Your previous response has not addressed my question as to why you stirred this up all over again. It appears that, as is the internet norm, when you are devoid of excuses, you resort to personal attack. I thought you could do better than that. Please start again and lets see what you are capable of (in a good way)

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Spare me your appeal to sympathy. I responded to you in exactly the way you deserved. I’ve tried all kinds of approaches, this is the one I’ve settled on. This thread had mercifully died, and Mikem alerted you with a simple non-emotional post to make you aware of the fact. At that point an ah-ha moment should have gripped you, stepping away realizing all of us had said our peace and were ready to move on. But that wasn’t satisfactory to you was it? No, you needed to get your satisfaction, a reaction, a dig here and there, and ignite a sore thread that had concluded--much to the credit of those involved I should add. I’m supposed to believe you had lofty intentions? By going after one of the most level headed members on the forum because his position didn’t align with yours? Nah man, I call ........ on you.

You want an explanation? Oh yeah, let me go back and write pages of the same .... so you can successfully rehash this flame war. Your not so subtle attempt at poking around to get a reaction is chickenshit at best. You don't deserve your personal explanation, besides, who the hell are you to require it; you want to know what's what? Go back and read a year's worth of threads, then when you get informed, go tell your opinion to someone who cares.

Bunny, you made your point, you chimed in your ignorant opinion, took a few undeserved digs at people, got a reaction (which I'm sure was your aim) let me ask you, are you going to drag this .... out (which I'm happy to oblige) or you gonna move forward toward our better angels and talk about racing (god knows that can be contentious enough)?

propagandhi said:

What are you debating here? You attacked me for no reason. After exposing the lie that you don't go ad .... you proceed to talk some irrelevant .... about music. To what end? (Rhetorical question).


You might use some big words but you don't really have anything to say at all in this exchange.
You say one thing and do the other. You don't make assumptions about character?then what is it you keep doing by mouthing off someone you don't even know ?
I was ready to give you kudos for realizing you were wrong but the back paddling threw that out the window.
Too bad.
I can sort of see how a sense of loyalty would prompt one to just attack but how you feel that i pissed on your leg when it is solely you who went personal is totally beyond me.
Who cares. Life's too short for this
Your loss that you insist on making yourself look like a self absorbed ..... Comes with the territory i guess.
I,like others, mistook your gift of the silver tongue as a mark of wisdom. Being erudite is just a great mean of masking the absence of coherent thought and indeed character.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Feel free to not even reply to this. I won't be bothered to go back 10 pages to prove my point again. Its all there to read. I don't feel like adding another flame war to this forum. Its tiresome for others and showing you up truly don't add inches to my .....

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So basically you thought I was wise because I have a large vocabulary, but now that I have a different opinion than you do I am an .....? Your problems, not mine. I don't claim wisdom or expect to be recognised as having wisdom, and I write how I write, with writing pretty much what I do for a living, and my prose style is the same on or away from the forum.

I will explain one more time. The post you claim was an unprovoked attack was in reply to a post of yours which finally got me off the fence; I had attempted to be conciliatory previously, Keshav having never tried to sit in judgement of my lack of civility whilst simultaneously offering me egregious and highly personal insults, and I have had many good discussions about actual bike racing with him over the years, he and I both being Stoner fans when that was not a highly regarded position even on this forum.

I found your post which basically applauded a post in which Keshav made a claim that Jumkie wasn't a good family man because he and his friend Roger were the type of people who visited Mexican whorehouses on the eve (so to speak) of Roger's wedding, exactly the kind of thing which is the genesis of all this, objectionable and if you found the post concerned by Keshav acceptable then again the problem is yours. Jumkie doesn't care if you call him a ...., he considers that to be robust debate, but considers deeply personal insults particularly those involving the families of him or others such as the aforementioned to be beyond the pale. How unreasonable.

I also tried to explain to you why Keshav's claim wasn't and couldn't be true ie because Roger was with his family and was getting married the day immediately after the Laguna Seca race, which I knew because I was invited although in the end I didn't make it to LS that year, and BECAUSE ROGER'S WIFE WAS AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT ON THE FORUM, the whole crux of the issue of insulting people's families, something which you still don't seem to have grasped, hence the grievous insult of calling you slow on the uptake.

You have since offered me nothing but personal insults and unfavourable assessments of my character (the "self absorbed ...." line was a particularly good one, demonstrating both your capacity for mature debate and your lack of understanding of the concept of irony despite your considerable language skills) to which I have responded mainly by picking apart your posts, but insulting me is apparently fine and justifiable, while the further insult I offered you, by implication only, that I consider you referring to punk rock 40 years after its time pretentious, is apparently an entirely different matter. I am also not self-proclaiming victory in whatever debate you think we are having, merely not letting you have the last word in the time honoured Keshavian tradition.

Reading the last couple of posts I had this song ringing in my head.

So much of this thread has been completely tl;dr, but I usually enjoy your posts, mm.
A serious question to you (and the forum in general).
Please try to disconnect this from the current fight at hand, it's not meant to fan any flames, nor dredge up past arguments.

I've seen people called all sorts of things here, I've seen people called thieves, accusations of paedophilia, anti-gay and racist insults all over the place, accusations of wife-beating, etc etc. What places attacks on people's parenting or family standards beyond the pale?

As I wrote, this is a rhetorical question.

Dr No said:

So much of this thread has been completely tl;dr, but I usually enjoy your posts, mm.
A serious question to you (and the forum in general).
Please try to disconnect this from the current fight at hand, it's not meant to fan any flames, nor dredge up past arguments.

I've seen people called all sorts of things here, I've seen people called thieves, accusations of paedophilia, anti-gay and racist insults all over the place, accusations of wife-beating, etc etc. What places attacks on people's parenting or family standards beyond the pale?

As I wrote, this is a rhetorical question.

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Let me get this straight Dr. No, Bunyip quotes Mike, and in his post assess Michael as "the height of gutless" and you show your approval by liking this post. In effect you agree Mike is gutless, oh im sure you'll try to walk it back now. I don't consider you to have much of a backbone. Its clear you have generally taken this side of the flame war, and now you want to pretend to just benignly ask a philosophical question that we are not supposed to read as your position and extension of this flame war? Who the hell do you think you're fooling? Oh let me answer your question so you can try one of your signature gotcha posts you're good at failing.

Dr No said:

A serious question to you (and the forum in general).
Please try to disconnect this from the current fight at hand, it's not meant to fan any flames, nor dredge up past arguments.

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Answering for myself only .............

I have only really been offended if that is the correct word by one post (from memory) as it was way to close to home given the content of the post itself. It was not a post directed at me but I raised my objection as did others and the poster responded.

No doubt that the poster did not intend to offend and it was intended purely as a joke (some may see it as a bad taste joke, but it was intended as a joke) but unfortunately in this case the poster was unaware of others for whom the comments may have been close to home.


My thoughts as to why some things slide by whilst others ignite are many and varied but no doubt that there is friendly banter between people who know the other but the acceptable comments from within the circle may be seen as offensive to those outside the circle. Likewise, a comment from outside the circle may be offensive to those inside, but were the comment made from inside it would not be taken in any offensive way.

Context and intent are important as to give an example, when I tried to play cricket (I say tried - I was hopeless) I would literally call myself every name under the sun when I ...... up - most people had no issue as I was directing the comments at myself. One day I found myself in strife with an umpire who had decided that I was abusing the opposition players and I would likely have been reported were it not for the other team and my team captain explaining that I was directing all at myself as was my nature.

Whilst this is no answer it is the way I take it and look at it.

Jumkie said:

Let me get this straight Dr. No, Bunyip quotes Mike, and in his post assess Michael as "the height of gutless" and you show your approval by liking this post. In effect you agree Mike is gutless, oh im sure you'll try to walk it back now. I don't consider you to have much of a backbone. Its clear you have generally taken this side of the flame war, and now you want to pretend to just benignly ask a philosophical question that we are not supposed to read as your position and extension of this flame war? Who the hell do you think you're fooling? Oh let me answer your question so you can try one of your signature gotcha posts you're good at failing.

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I didn't reply to Dr No's post despite some doubt that he was asking entirely rhetorical questions so as not to be the one hypocritically extending the thread, but will now to you since you are the one in a position to correct me if I am wrong.

The difference is that these are not anonymous keyboard warriors arguing the abstract, Keshav has actually met the people concerned including Roger's wife and children, and is using personal information he garnered while drinking your beer in the flame war. When Roger left and started his own forum, genuinely and permanently removing himself from any flame wars here, Keshav followed you guys there to continue his campaign, which he was able to do because as a matter of principle Roger had decided that he would not exclude or ban anyone from his forum.

This has become a matter of principle for me, and I will not agree to disagree just as I won't in the far more trivial matter of MM and not Rossi being the one at fault at the end of last season. If this costs me the regard of the likes of the purported merry joker who has self appointed himself to the role of pricking the pomposity of posters such as me, so be it.

Jumkie said:

Let me get this straight Dr. No, Bunyip quotes Mike, and in his post assess Michael as "the height of gutless" and you show your approval by liking this post. In effect you agree Mike is gutless, oh im sure you'll try to walk it back now. I don't consider you to have much of a backbone. Its clear you have generally taken this side of the flame war, and now you want to pretend to just benignly ask a philosophical question that we are not supposed to read as your position and extension of this flame war? Who the hell do you think you're fooling? Oh let me answer your question so you can try one of your signature gotcha posts you're good at failing.

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Interpret as you wish.
It's not a gotcha post in the slightest.

Despite Jum's absurd interpretations and insults, I like to thank Mm and Gaz for replying. Appreciated.

Dr No said:

Despite Jum's absurd interpretations and insults, I like to thank Mm and Gaz for replying. Appreciated.

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As a final comment, FWIW I don't think Kesh actually has much in the way of malicious intent himself, he simply doesn't understand how hard people take such things as being told their kids aren't up to scratch, particularly given he was enjoying the hospitality of friends.

If you said anything resembling that to any of my sisters or sisters in law, it wouldn't be a question of them taking offence, more a question of whether you would leave alive.

This is absolutely fascinating.

Dr No said:

Interpret as you wish.
It's not a gotcha post in the slightest.

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In the slightest...

Oh, I see. I'm free to make of it what I will. Circle of trust stuff. So it was meant to be absolutely honest, not the slightest judgment, vulnerability, or set up.

Then you said:

Dr No said:

Despite Jum's absurd interpretations and insults, I like to thank Mm and Gaz for replying. Appreciated.

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Are you aware you just wrote these two posts? What happened to the circle of trust? Hahaha. Btw genius, MM explicitly stated he wasn't replying to you. Oh what is the matter Dr.No, you sound 'petty'.

Jumkie said:

This is absolutely fascinating.



In the slightest...

Oh, I see. I'm free to make of it what I will. Circle of trust stuff. So it was meant to be absolutely honest, not the slightest judgment, vulnerability, or set up.

Then you said:




Are you aware you just wrote these two posts? What happened to the circle of trust? Hahaha. Btw genius, MM explicitly stated he wasn't replying to you. Oh what is the matter Dr.No, you sound 'petty'.

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is this a gotcha post? Or just a piss poor attempt at one, JumJums?

I got Mm's perspective. So that's good enough for me.

I'd just like to take the time to thank Jum and Mike for their excellent, well thought out posts that really got to the heart of the matter.

It's something that not even the United Nations would be capable of doing if this matter were put before them.

JPSLotus said:

I'd just like to take the time to thank Jum and Mike for their excellent, well thought out posts that really got to the heart of the matter.

It's something that not even the United Nations would be capable of doing if this matter were put before them.

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Nonsense, I'm still none the wiser whether Rossi actually meant what he implicitly said or whether his threat to withdraw was simply an idle threat.

Oh mikey my little friend. I won't be arsed to read through this. The matter at hand were your failings to hold down a conversation and skimming through it ,all i read is roger roger jpslotus likes this. Marks it as a waste of time.
Maybe i can suggest you look up grices maxims? Maybe that will help you in the future.

That you resort to bringing up kesh and co all the time just proves my point. You were talking out your ... when you acted a .... towards me. And i have every right to be a self absorbed .... about it.

Cheers m8