Rossi says relationship with Marquez “can never be recovered”

#22 · Apr 25, 2016

Rossi certainly didn't mind it in 2010 at Motegi

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 25, 2016

Thanks.

michaelm · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
No, it's an interpretation of the facts, and applies to both those biased towards or against Rossi.

What part of the burden of proof being on those who allege a conspiracy do you not understand?

He does have the advantage of operating in a context where it is practically impossible for him to be sued for defamation, which makes it worse imo.

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
That's all ........ straw man arguments. Nobody would have had an issue with riders racing the championship contenders. The issue is with any riders intentionally slowing down to interfere with a race or championship result. Which is VERY different.

I asked for information. Didn't declare an opinion or sided anywhere.

The Worst · Apr 25, 2016

Barbedwirebikerr said:
I asked for information. Didn't declare an opinion or sided anywhere.

Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't criticising you, but the suggestin (by others) that Rossi did criticise riders for the sake of being racing him. That did not happen. Rossi criticised Marquez for NOT racing him and deliberately slowing down to interfere. Which is very different.

The Worst · Apr 25, 2016

michaelm said:
What part of the burden of proof being on those who allege a conspiracy do you not understand?

He does have the advantage of operating in a context where it is practically impossible for him to be sued for defamation, which makes it worse imo.

What's this? modern world's corporate groupthink where any dissent is treated as a "conspiracy". You need to learn to defend your own interests man. In this case, we're after the truth. Nothing is true by default. Think about science, you have observations and you have theories that explain them. No theories can be proven "right", they can only be proven wrong. Are Newton's Laws right? No, but they're useful. Are Einstein's theories right? So far, we can't say they're wrong. Can you prove wrong someone that says Marquez interferred? I haven't heard anyone doing that. Can you prove wrong someone who denies Rossi's claims? You can support a lot of evidence against it, but not prove it, because it's just a negative of a theory.

Nobody can prove or disprove Rossi's claims. Marquez did nothing against the rules in any case, because you cannot create a rule against it, even though it is clearly against the spirit of the sport. So that's the bottom line, neither Dorna, Yamaha or Rossi could have done anything about it. But that's not the same as denying it altogether.

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
Nobody can prove or disprove Rossi's claims. .

Precisely - they are unfalsifiable which is the chief weapon of the conspiracy theorist. So why are you so intent on proving them then?

The Worst · Apr 25, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Precisely - they are unfalsifiable which is the chief weapon of the conspiracy theorist. So why are you so intent on proving them then?

I cannot prove them, but I cannot accept explanations that are in conflict with the observations either.

If you toss a coin 100 times and you get heads 90 times, would you think it's an honest coin? You cannot prove that it is or it isn't purely based on that outcome, but it's far more likely that it is not an honest coin. The two scenarios aren't equally likely. Same here, do the PI lap times and other events prove that Marquez is guilty? No. But it's not equally likely that he's guilty or innocent. He's FAR more likely to be guilty. Period.

#22 · Apr 25, 2016

And there it is, a Rossi fan using the word "Period" at the end of an argument.

The fact is, you cannot prove Marquez's supposed guilt any more than you claim we can prove Rossi's.

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
I cannot prove them, but I cannot accept explanations that are in conflict with the observations either.

If you toss a coin 100 times and you get heads 90 times, would you think it's an honest coin? You cannot prove that it is or it isn't purely based on that outcome, but it's far more likely that it is not an honest coin. The two scenarios aren't equally likely. Same here, do the PI lap times and other events prove that Marquez is guilty? No. But it's not equally likely that he's guilty or innocent. He's FAR more likely to be guilty. Period.

Dreadful analogy. There are innumerable variables at play during a motorcycle race, many of them cognitive/psychological, some them capricious, some mechanical and others entirely random. A race evolves and is mutable. If you really believe that your shoehorned 'evidence' is comparable, analogous or as conclusive as the patterns evidenced by a tossed coin which comes up heads 90% of the time then I suggest that you avoid a career in the bar...period.

Dr No · Apr 25, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Dreadful analogy. There are innumerable variables at play during a motorcycle race, many of them cognitive/psychological, some them capricious, some mechanical and others entirely random. A race evolves and is mutable. If you really believe that your shoehorned 'evidence' is comparable, analogous or as conclusive as the patterns evidenced by a tossed coin which comes up heads 90% of the time then I suggest that you avoid a career in the bar...period.

.....your variables, Arrab. All we have to do is run the race 100 times. Easy.

The Worst · Apr 25, 2016

Dr No said:
.....your variables, Arrab. All we have to do is run the race 100 times. Easy.

Not really. There are 100s of races you can compare those patterns to and quantify their likelihood conditional to no-wrongdoing.

Dr No · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
Not really. There are 100s of races you can compare those patterns to and quantify their likelihood conditional to no-wrongdoing.

Ok.

#22 · Apr 25, 2016

100's of races held at Phillip Island with 2015 MotoGP bikes and riders and tyres and identical weather conditions? :bounce:

michaelm · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
What's this? modern world's corporate groupthink where any dissent is treated as a "conspiracy". You need to learn to defend your own interests man. In this case, we're after the truth. Nothing is true by default. Think about science, you have observations and you have theories that explain them. No theories can be proven "right", they can only be proven wrong. Are Newton's Laws right? No, but they're useful. Are Einstein's theories right? So far, we can't say they're wrong. Can you prove wrong someone that says Marquez interferred? I haven't heard anyone doing that. Can you prove wrong someone who denies Rossi's claims? You can support a lot of evidence against it, but not prove it, because it's just a negative of a theory.

Nobody can prove or disprove Rossi's claims. Marquez did nothing against the rules in any case, because you cannot create a rule against it, even though it is clearly against the spirit of the sport. So that's the bottom line, neither Dorna, Yamaha or Rossi could have done anything about it. But that's not the same as denying it altogether.

I am saying that he made allegations of malfeasance which have already had serious consequences for MM and will it seem likely continue to do so without being able to prove them, which is rather different than postulating a scientific hypothesis, a process with which I am familiar. That being my background I am no lawyer, but I do believe in other contexts this is known as defamation.

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
Not really. There are 100s of races you can compare those patterns to and quantify their likelihood conditional to no-wrongdoing.

Don't mean to trouble you, but you couldn't possibly knock up a graph or two for these could you when you have time?

michaelm · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
What's this? modern world's corporate groupthink where any dissent is treated as a "conspiracy". You need to learn to defend your own interests man. In this case, we're after the truth. Nothing is true by default. Think about science, you have observations and you have theories that explain them. No theories can be proven "right", they can only be proven wrong. Are Newton's Laws right? No, but they're useful. Are Einstein's theories right? So far, we can't say they're wrong. Can you prove wrong someone that says Marquez interferred? I haven't heard anyone doing that. Can you prove wrong someone who denies Rossi's claims? You can support a lot of evidence against it, but not prove it, because it's just a negative of a theory.

Nobody can prove or disprove Rossi's claims. Marquez did nothing against the rules in any case, because you cannot create a rule against it, even though it is clearly against the spirit of the sport. So that's the bottom line, neither Dorna, Yamaha or Rossi could have done anything about it. But that's not the same as denying it altogether.

I am saying that he made allegations of malfeasance which have already had serious consequences for MM and will it seem likely continue to do so without being able to prove them, which is rather different than postulating a scientific hypothesis, a process with which I am familiar. That being my background I am no lawyer, but I do believe in other contexts this is known as defamation.

The Worst · Apr 25, 2016

michaelm said:
I am saying that he made allegations of malfeasance which have already had serious consequences for MM and will it seem likely continue to do so without being able to prove them, which is rather different than postulating a scientific hypothesis, a process with which I am familiar. That being my background I am no lawyer, but I do believe in other contexts this is known as defamation.

He based his case on data and his and Iannone's testimony, he didn't just say it. You don't even bother to offer alternative explanations to the data, you just refused to consider it. You don't sound too familiar with scientific reasoning.

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 25, 2016

The Worst said:
He based his case on data and his and Iannone's testimony, he didn't just say it. .

Case closed then.

The Worst · Apr 25, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Case closed then.

Ad hominem again...

Jesus guys, you have no limit.

Rossi says relationship with Marquez “can never be recovered”

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