Rossi on a Ducati, WHne will they win?

Mental Anarchist said:

Just to test a conspiracy theory for no other reason than I like conspiracy theories:



Now that it has been released that Rossi is to be given the option of having the screamer engine for 2011. Who thinks that perhaps the screamer was taken away from Stoner so he couldn't win the 2010 championship and therefore Rossi can be seen more as the great Italian savour for the great Italian brand after another defeated season by their current riders. After all there was no doubt in their minds that Stoner was leaving and Rossi was coming and that all of Ducati's efforts were to be thrown at Rossi. Some of the gloss would certainly have been removed if Stoner had of won the 2010 Championship then leave and Rossi at great expense comes in and fails to win. This would not have looked good at all. Therefore I see it as quite reasonable that 2010 could have been sacrificed to ensure that 2011 was better.



Another spin off to this is that in order for Ducti to offer Rossi the type of engine he is used to, 'big bang', it needed to be tested for a season. So perhaps Stoner has been Rossi's test ..... without even knowing it and really he could have been riding the screamer this season without a problem.

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J4rn0 said:

Your conspiracy theory is nice, but as all conspiracy theories has a fatal weak point. It does not explain the fact that Stoner actually chose the big bang, and ignores that he has the option to revert to the screamer any time he chooses. It wasn't imposed on him (assuming such a thing is possible, knowing Stoner). If you remember, he himself was asking for something sweeter and easier from Ducati last year. He's been given what he asked for.



To kill time waiting for next GP, I can offer you the conspiracy theory I recently read on an obscure Italian MotoGP site: Stoner returned to victory because Rossi has already begun sending tips to the development team that works full time at Mugello since two months (with test rider Battaini). Rossi checks the feedback from Battaini every day and sends his recommendations. Test team gave the racing team a few solutions to test on track and voilà, they worked so well Stoner re-found his front end!



Well... Before the flak begins, let me state that I do not subscribe to that point of view either

As I said all conspiracy theories have a weak point, and this too has a rather weak one. Is it possible that Rossi can fix a Ducati he knows just by hearsay, while he's struggling to fix the Yamaha he knows firsthand so well, and rides since 7 years?

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Jumkie said:

While we are talking conspiracy, may I add a bit your yours... Loris Capirossi, personal test rider #2.

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Mental Anarchist said:

Hahaha... I like your conspiracy theory. What you could have added is that Ducati have seconded a satellite from NASA so Rossi can watch it live from space and intercept all the GPS data at the same time!!!!



As with all conspiracy theories (well most anyway) you need to have your 'suspicious of the MAN' hat on. Not sure if Stoner has the pull to demand a big bang engine. That would suggest he was Rossi like and that could seriously get you into trouble here. I also doubt that he could go back to the screamer as this would mean they would have needed to have a screamer engine developed and built capable of doing 3 rounds just sitting there in case Valentino Stoner asked for it.



I agree my conspiracy is weak but as my PS Username suggests I refuse to conform my mind and this is what it can come up with from time to time.



To back up my theory MotoGP teams/manufacturers and particularly Ducati think along time in advance. I think they knew they would have Rossi from 2011 on and I think they began preparing for him well before the start of 2010. If I was leading Ducati and was sitting down in a brain storming session in 2009 and the topic was what do we need to do to get Vale? Having a range of engines to choose from would definitely have been discussed. After all this is what Yamaha did.



I also think the discussion with Philip Morris would have gone something like this....



FP - "we are going after Rossi for 2011. We think we need to offer him a full gambit of options so he can put together the best package. We need to test these options at the limit first. How would you feel if we sacrificed Stoners 2010 campaign and had him test all these new things. We can make it look like we do it all for him."

PM - "yeah .... Stoner make him the test .....!"



Hahaha... I can almost visualise that conversation!

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Talpa said:

Funnily enough, Stoner's teammate has had some of his best results since 2006 and considering last year I'm sure you will need to change you name to 'Mental incapability' if you continue to propose that the Ducati is a lesser machine than last year.



What you need to admit is, that Stoner has been seriously on the pace, and above it, at many rounds this year. His inability to accurately determine his issues with the front end, correct them, and stop crashing has led to where he is now in the title race-third isn't too shabby really.



This has happened many times in his Motogp career, the man knows how to ride fast-that's for sure. His ability to ride fast and consistently around his problems with losing the front however, needs serious improvement.



You can admit it, let me hear you say it Dorothy



'It's not all Ducati's fault'

'Its not all Ducati's fault'



'They did land on the moon'

'They did land on the moon'

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Mental Anarchist said:

Never said the bike is less than last season.

Never said Stoner has not been on the pace.



Don't agree that Stoner wasn't able to sort out the front end issue. It is reported that he felt his position on the bike was wrong, changed it and won 3 out of 4 races. Problem solved. Crashing in the 3rd of those 4 races was due to going to hard on a cold tyre. His mistake and he admitted it. Not a front end problem.



Don't agree he is not consistent. 10 race wins in a season, more race wins than any other rider in the current era and less crashes then 2 other aliens in the current era doesn't spell hugely inconsistent to me.



Don't get your nickers in a twist Talpa I am no more a Stoner fan than a Rossi fan or an Aoyama fan or a Simoncelli fan or a Bautista fan or a Kallio fan. I like them all, respect their talent and just enjoy the many aspects of the sport.



I am pulling for Rossi at Ducati because it will be good for the sport. I am pulling for Stoner at Honda because it will be good for the sport. I am pulling for Spies at Yamaha because it will be good for the sport. Who wins I could care less because who ever it is will deserve it because this is an incredible era of rider talent.

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J4rn0 said:

Your conspiracy theory is nice, but as all conspiracy theories has a fatal weak point. It does not explain the fact that Stoner actually chose the big bang, and ignores that he has the option to revert to the screamer any time he chooses. It wasn't imposed on him (assuming such a thing is possible, knowing Stoner). If you remember, he himself was asking for something sweeter and easier from Ducati last year. He's been given what he asked for.

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Mental Anarchist said:

Ok Talpa you got me. The implication could read as you said.



I don't however think they were aiming to develop a crap big bang nor did they and it was not my intention to imply this. My conspiracy theory was to imply that they used Stoner as a test mule for Rossi in 2011. What better test mule than someone who has to date more consistently won races in 2010 than Rossi and more consistently won races on an 800 than Rossi.



If you don't think that any planning went into get Rossi before they made the first approach then say no more as I can't play with you because your ability to look deeper than the ripples on the surface of the water doesn't exist. I would say the latest that Ducati started thinking and planning to get Rossi was end of 2008 season and the earliest was probably about 2006.



As someone who suckles with such gusto at the Rossi teet I am surprised you would be disappointed with my little conspiracy theory.

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Talpa said:

On the contrary, I believe Ducati has been planning to get Rossi since they returned to Motogp! Most motorcycle manufacturers have plotted to get him and Burgess, not too mention leading F1 and World Rally teams.



I also believe that a good conspiracy theory has some merit, and to suggest that a Manufacturer would sacrifice loads of dollars and the potential to win races and titles on the premise that they may sign Rossi, and in turn throw away their last chance with their most successful Motogp rider (and really only successful rider in the 800cc era) in the process, all to make Rossi look better, isn't anywhere near the ripples on the surface of the water, but closer to the bottom dwellers in the Mariana Trench.......

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michaelm said:

There is arguably some precedent for major racing teams only wanting to win a championship with their favoured rider/driver (schumacher/irvine, pedrosa/hayden, maybe webber this year ( I won't say hamilton alonso out of deference to our F1 fans who are more knolwedgeable about F1 than me). I absolutely agree that ducati would have wanted to have every success possible this year though, particularly since they were not sure to get rossi for 2011 at the sart of the year, and indeed had chased lorenzo hard.



I do agree with an earlier post of yours that there was significant opinion at ducati last year that he had gone off the rails psychologically, partly because of all the theorizing that rossi had broken him etc by those with a mind-set similar to yours, and even as fair-minded an insider as kropotkin has said he thought this at the time. I even wonder if suppo's separation was due to him being a stoner supporter, although his management skills with other riders especially melandri were not very impressive. I think they made a decision that he was not their future and ceased developing in his direction, and it also seems likely he preety much had committed to honda before the season.

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Mental Anarchist said:

Hahaha... I like your conspiracy theory. What you could have added is that Ducati have seconded a satellite from NASA so Rossi can watch it live from space and intercept all the GPS data at the same time!!!!



As with all conspiracy theories (well most anyway) you need to have your 'suspicious of the MAN' hat on. Not sure if Stoner has the pull to demand a big bang engine. That would suggest he was Rossi like and that could seriously get you into trouble here. I also doubt that he could go back to the screamer as this would mean they would have needed to have a screamer engine developed and built capable of doing 3 rounds just sitting there in case Valentino Stoner asked for it.



I agree my conspiracy is weak but as my PS Username suggests I refuse to conform my mind and this is what it can come up with from time to time.



To back up my theory MotoGP teams/manufacturers and particularly Ducati think along time in advance. I think they knew they would have Rossi from 2011 on and I think they began preparing for him well before the start of 2010. If I was leading Ducati and was sitting down in a brain storming session in 2009 and the topic was what do we need to do to get Vale? Having a range of engines to choose from would definitely have been discussed. After all this is what Yamaha did.



I also think the discussion with Philip Morris would have gone something like this....



FP - "we are going after Rossi for 2011. We think we need to offer him a full gambit of options so he can put together the best package. We need to test these options at the limit first. How would you feel if we sacrificed Stoners 2010 campaign and had him test all these new things. We can make it look like we do it all for him."

PM - "yeah .... Stoner make him the test .....!"



Hahaha... I can almost visualise that conversation!

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notabikerther4useless said:

We can argue the "what if's" till the cows come home....so let's look at the facts....



1. Stoner has 23 race wins in the 800cc era



2. His team-mates have one



3. Next year will be very revealing



4. Talpa and Mdub have seriously good issues



5. These sorts of threads help keep the off-season bearable



6. It's all in good fun



7. notabikerther4afuckwit

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Talpa said:

all fixed

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notabikerther4useless said:

Did you learn that all by yourself? Who's a good boy? Who's a goooood boy?



But seriously Talps, I'm just kidding. If you behave yourself for a while, I'll even scratch you under the ear.

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Talpa said:

Confucius say



'He who flings mud must enjoy getting dirty'

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