Rossi on a Ducati, WHne will they win?

Ok,couch professors.........let the racing begin.........in a coupla months,mind.

I chose within the first 5 rounds. The combination of Rossi/Burgess along with the unlimited budget to get the Duc right will transpire quickly.

As far as the Valencia test, I believe Mental mentioned they would put Rossi on Stoners bike with black kit....lol I bet if they told Rossi that, he would balk, and ask to be put on Nicky's bike, I don't know if anyone has figured out how to ride with Stoners settings, he just does what works for him.



-If all of these resources are thrown into the MotoGP program, wouldn't they most likely be put into the 2012 bike?

-Why test the screamer, I thought it would not work with the current engine rules...i.e. not reliable enough?

-Will Nicky benefit from Rossi? Does Ducati now turn it's back on him giving him nothing, or make him a test mule? Last time he was a test mule for the next season he won the championship..

First five rounds definetly. Like Jumkie said before, Ducati will give Rossi all the support he needs to win. An Italian Rider winning the championship on their Italian bike is a dream for them. Never count out Rossi!

Mental Anarchist said:

Test day 1 at Valencia they will give him Stoner's bike with black fairing. Rossi will be 2+ seconds off the pace and will comment on how was Stoner able to ride that thing.



Then they will give him the 2011 bike and he will get to work. That work will take some time. He will be fast but the talent on the grid who will all be on bikes that are of a standard style i.e. not carbon fibre chassis, will need no time to get up to speed. I predict it could take all of the first 10 rounds for Rossi to win. Not because he will be slow but because the others will be too fast and his Ducati will not handle sublimely like his Yamaha so he won't be able to do 'controlled' block passes like he does now.



Stoner will be fastest on the Honda from his second lap because that is just what Stoner does.

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Yup and on the third lap he'll crash just like he used to and still frequently does

ptk50 said:

Yup and on the third lap he'll crash just like he used to and still frequently does

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I know you say this as a joke because otherwise it would show a level of ignorance that would be embarrassing for you. I say this because it is common knowledge by any follower of MotoGP that Stoners crashes in his only year on a Honda were largely due to a Michelin front tyre that was not a top spec tyre that was on offer to factory riders. It would also be quite ignorant to try to compare a rider in his first year of MotoGP riding in a single rider team who were also in their first year of MotoGP with a leased bike that was the lowest spec level of all the satellite Honda's against the same rider 5 years later with a MotoGP WC, more 800cc MotoGP wins than any other rider being drafted into the factory team on a salary in excess of 5 million euros. However just for some facts when looking at the crash stats for the aliens in the 800 era it shows that:



Rossi is the best at keeping the rubber side down with only 5 crashes in races on an 800.

Stoner comes next with 7.

Lorenzo has 8 race crashes.

Pedrosa the worst offender with 9 race crashes.



It is also noted that their are guys on the grid who have far less crashes than all the aliens but they also have no race wins. Crashing happens when you ride at the limit of the bike, the track and your ability. It has been said that 'win it or bin it' is to be respected under the right circumstances so I see nothing wrong with the guys that are winning all the races crashing a couple of times each season in the process.



So next time you try to crack a joke put a smilee or something after it so you don't sound so silly.

We’ve got something very, very good to start with. I think a lot better perhaps than when we arrived here in 2004. ”What I said to Yamaha when I came here, I said, ‘I can’t fix your bike. But if you listen to Valentino Rossi, we’ll go forward. Ignore him at your peril.’ And it’s the same deal here at Ducati.





JB











silly is he that ignores history

xx CURVE xx said:

We’ve got something very, very good to start with. I think a lot better perhaps than when we arrived here in 2004. ”What I said to Yamaha when I came here, I said, ‘I can’t fix your bike. But if you listen to Valentino Rossi, we’ll go forward. Ignore him at your peril.’ And it’s the same deal here at Ducati.





JB











silly is he that ignores history

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All fanboyism aside, if stoner can win on it you would think rossi could, certainly in the first 5 races, quite possibly in the first (depending how fast the honda is perhaps from my biased viewpoint).



However while the 2010 ducati is obviously better performed than the 2003 yamaha, the yamaha was pretty much the same aluminium spaceframe or whatever chassis as the honda which rossi and jb had burnished to perfection, and there was probably a lot they could carry over, whilst the carbon fibre etc ducati may be quite a different thing. I guess jb would know though, and whilst rossi and he presumably have not directly encountered the bike jb very possibly has seen some data, and as has been said valentino has had quite some opportunity to observe the characteristics of the ducatis closely recently, particularly in the last 3 laps at PI.

One thing is for sure, the first 5 rounds will answer many of the speculations folk have. I tend to agree that within the first 5 rounds JB will have the Duc. working well, but perhaps Rossi will be the weak link, as has been the case in 2010.

Mental Anarchist said:

I know you say this as a joke because otherwise it would show a level of ignorance that would be embarrassing for you. I say this because it is common knowledge by any follower of MotoGP that Stoners crashes in his only year on a Honda were largely due to a Michelin front tyre that was not a top spec tyre that was on offer to factory riders. It would also be quite ignorant to try to compare a rider in his first year of MotoGP riding in a single rider team who were also in their first year of MotoGP with a leased bike that was the lowest spec level of all the satellite Honda's against the same rider 5 years later with a MotoGP WC, more 800cc MotoGP wins than any other rider being drafted into the factory team on a salary in excess of 5 million euros. However just for some facts when looking at the crash stats for the aliens in the 800 era it shows that:



Rossi is the best at keeping the rubber side down with only 5 crashes in races on an 800.

Stoner comes next with 7.

Lorenzo has 8 race crashes.

Pedrosa the worst offender with 9 race crashes.



It is also noted that their are guys on the grid who have far less crashes than all the aliens but they also have no race wins. Crashing happens when you ride at the limit of the bike, the track and your ability. It has been said that 'win it or bin it' is to be respected under the right circumstances so I see nothing wrong with the guys that are winning all the races crashing a couple of times each season in the process.



So next time you try to crack a joke put a smilee or something after it so you don't sound so silly.

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Better to be mistaken for silly than be pompous and trying to blind with spurious

detail. For the record I believe that Stoner' s win last weekend at PI was fantastic. That said he did fall off the Honda and has a habit of falling off the Ducati in situations where he was not under attack or opponent pressure. JL is far from my favorite rider, but you need to be fair and be so protective about Stoner in his rookie year you should at least adjust

your crash # comparison for that.

These are especially for you

ptk50 said:

has a habit of falling off the Ducati in situations where he was not under attack or opponent pressure.

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I think you don't get Stoner here. He is not against oponents, he allways races the track/bike. What oponents are doing does not seem to matter to him, the Rossi brake check incident at Laguna Seca shows that Rossi also knows this.



This is also another point that makes a farce of folk saying Stoner can't develop a bike. On the contrary a guy who is pushing the bike to the limits will allways be better for developmet than someone who just races the oponents ( they can only produce a machine that is better than the opposition) . If a team can keep a bike under a rider that can overun the rest of the competition and finds the machines limitations, they have further insight into producing a good machine.

inam said:

You entitled to have your opinion, nothing wrong with that but unfortunately stats doesn't back your opinion.

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There is no stat that measures talent. As I said, I believe Casey is more talented than Rossi. I did not claim that he was a better racer than Rossi. There's a difference.

I think it will take Rossi at least 5 races to find the winning formula. His shoulder surgery is going to be a little more complicated to return from especially after a whole winter break of rehab. Of course the most speculation is on the bike but he still has to race the other riders and there is some strong competition no matter what he is riding. Jorge has shown he can beat Rossi on equal machinery and a very good bike. Rossi is going to have come up with something good.

Mental Anarchist said:

Just to test a conspiracy theory for no other reason than I like conspiracy theories:

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I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. I think the tires were taken away from Stoner and that's when we saw him start to have less consistency.

So far a decent discussion. Here's what I think, I don't underestimate Alberto Puig. And I don't underestimate Ducati under the direction of their dream team.



The one thing that struck me about Burgess' interview was the direct line they will have to the engineering department. He said, normally (that means everybody else on the grid) have to request a project concern and then its put on the cue. With Rossi, its a direct request to the team of engineers through Filippo Preziosi (he stated it was the same with Yamaha). This is in part what makes the Burgess/Rossi duo so effective. Its a position that I think none have with their manufactures. Honda or anybody else doesn't have an engineering crew on standby as Burgess describes. At the moment, I can't remember who recently said this, but that person said one of the most important things for a rider is the complete and total support of their manufacture.



I for one think Rossi will do well on the new Ducati. Put him side by side with Stoner on Stoner's current Ducati, we'd see a different picture. Again, MotoGP is not a competition about who is the best rider, its about the mouse trap.

Ready, everybody. Roll and turn on your crystal balls.

i'll go for within the first 5 races.

Yeah!! I cant wait to see the best rider on the grid riding the Ducati...As Burgess says, Rossi likes a bike set up hard and the Ducati is hard with its carbon fibre chassis....he could take to it like a duck to water.



As for the conspiracy theorists saying Ducati gave Stoner the big bang engine to test for Rossi or they didn't want Stoner to win on the screamer, surely you jest.

bigt46 said:

Yeah!! I cant wait to see the best rider on the grid riding the Ducati...

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oh boy..thats gonna not go over well with some haha....i agree tho

Ngads said:

First five rounds definetly. Like Jumkie said before, Ducati will give Rossi all the support he needs to win. An Italian Rider winning the championship on their Italian bike is a dream for them. Never count out Rossi!

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But so far only Casey Stoner has jumped straight on that machine and clicked with it immediately, look how long its taken Nicky to start scoring decent results... I know Ducati are going to throw everything they have into ensuring Rossi wins, at some point, but dont count out the beast that is the Duke either... First ten rounds i'll say. I guess we will see...

I just had a scary thought, what if the bike suits Rossi like the 07 Duc suited Stoner?

stop_killing_dead_things said:

But so far only Casey Stoner has jumped straight on that machine and clicked with it immediately, look how long its taken Nicky to start scoring decent results... I know Ducati are going to throw everything they have into ensuring Rossi wins, at some point, but dont count out the beast that is the Duke either... First ten rounds i'll say. I guess we will see...

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Yeh good point, the duke has given all its riders problems. However, Rossi has won on so many different types of machinery throughout the years. I think it is fair to assume he will do well with the Ducati faster than the average rider. But like you said, we just gotta wait n see.

Jumkie said:

I just had a scary thought, what if the bike suits Rossi like the 07 Duc suited Stoner?

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This would be the worst case scenario, really. I'd hate to see a runaway season. At this point of speculation, the championship is wide wide open for next year with so many team swaps, and every single factory rider is capable of winning races. Someone mentioned it previously that its unbelievably rare to have four premier class champions on the grid at the same time, so I really hope we get some awesome races and a very tight title fight. There's bound to be tons of surprises and who knows what bikes will be faster or slower, but for our fantasyland predictions, here is my 2011 fiction:



Yamaha comes out swinging in the first 2-3 rounds and Lorenzo wins Qatar. Not a huge transition for Jorge and Ben to stay on their bikes. Same can be said of Pedro and Dovi, but Pedro has had a poor showing for the last two years, and there may be some internal drama on the 3-rider team. I think the Duc will not be great out of the gates and despite the development resources, may have a teething period.



After the first few races, Honda will start really charging for wins considering the strength of their team, but I do think Rossi will sneak a win in somewhere within the first 5, but I think the Duc will still be missing something.



By midseason, the Duc will be ready and Rossi will win Assen and Mugello on back-to-back weekends to really tighten up the championship.



The last half of the season will be the most exciting we've had since 2006. Who knows who the contenders will be? Jorge will have a chip on his shoulder as the man to beat but can he do it without Rossi's bike development skills? I don't think Spies will be in the running for the title but I know he will win at least a race, maybe more. Stoner is a real mystery to me. I could really see it going to either extreme: he could be a phenom on the Honda and just dust everyone, or struggle with the bike and pull a few wins but never be in title contention. Dovi is getting better and it could finally be his year. Dani has had a lot of chances to win it on the 800 and hasn't come through, but I'm not going to count him out either. And poor Nicky, maybe Rossi will get a bike sorted that he can ride but I'm just holding out for 2012 for him.