Repsol done after 2010?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 7 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sounds like you are running a bit more of that "dubious reporting" again this year too Rog.

If I recall correctly yourself and a few other boppers on here were saying he used the most TC ( whatever that means ) ........ with complete disregard to the fact that if he was it would be slowing him down to about the "other Duc. riders" speeds.

You boppers were reporting him to be running so much TC ( and borrowing some from Rossi ) that he would have been moving backwards
Bopper this bopper that, we have a name for people like you in the uk. PRICK !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 7 2010, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> I don't get it? You don't disagree now


is it the crack speaking?
Even when someone concurs with you, you have to object. We are not talking about backing it in here Berry, we are talking about Casey's superhuman throttle control. Of course that is derived from his dirt-track experience. This is a completely different discussion to backing a bike in.

As Michael M duly observed on this subject:
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The only crack speaking on here is your own arse, which you talk out of on a regular basis.

TC & how its used...Fooking thing...got to love it though

8988:can_o_worms.gif]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Mar 8 2010, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>TC & how its used...Fooking thing...got to love it though

8988:can_o_worms.gif]


Thats about the best description of it I've ever seen

Duc.Yam.Honda..sure this thread was about Repsol.

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 8 2010, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is a completely different discussion to backing a bike in.

This is where we differ, I don't think that it is a different discussion when one is talking taking a corner as fast as you possibly can, so that you aren't slowing too much, so that you don't get run up the arse of, so that you aren't fighting for last place.

Watch Stoners PI slides ...... its all there, shear technical beauty!

Perhaps its why he hits the straights so fast, cos he's using an old skill he got from riding a bike on the edge, with the back end loose enough for taking the corner but just enough spin to maintain speed and maintain enough kinetic energy in the drivetrain at the end of the corner. When you are done with the sliding part of the corner the regaining of traction by positioning the body rearwards, when the rear wheel is spinning faster, gives you a slingshot type burst of speed onto the straight.

If you break traction with the rear brake ....... this can never happen ...... so you go very slow around the corner ........ and onto the straight. I'd be surprised if anybody at MGP level is doing that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Mar 8 2010, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Duc.Yam.Honda..sure this thread was about Repsol.

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So where is the bit with the TC there?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Mar 7 2010, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Duc.Yam.Honda..sure this thread was about Repsol.

I believe there is something like Stoner's Corollary to Godwin's Law, which states that every discussion on a motorcycle racing forum will eventually turn into an argument about Traction Control.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Mar 7 2010, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe there is something like Stoner's Corollary to Godwin's Law, which states that every discussion on a motorcycle racing forum will eventually turn into an argument about Traction Control.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Mar 8 2010, 03:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe there is something like Stoner's Corollary to Godwin's Law, which states that every discussion on a motorcycle racing forum will eventually turn into an argument about Traction Control.

Thats when it wasn't an argument about "the Ducati being the best bike out there", "the tyres", and how the "Ducati rode itself", or I think even "shear luck" may have been touted




And as far as "Cans of Worms" go , it sure was/is an entertainingly funny can of worms.

Like said "TC video" above


But anyway, hey we are well over TC aren't we!?, that dissappeared when we discovered that Stoner isn't an "entertainer"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 7 2010, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is where we differ, I don't think that it is a different discussion when one is talking taking a corner as fast as you possibly can, so that you aren't slowing too much, so that you don't get run up the arse of, so that you aren't fighting for last place.

Watch Stoners PI slides ...... its all there, shear technical beauty!

Perhaps its why he hits the straights so fast, cos he's using an old skill he got from riding a bike on the edge, with the back end loose enough for taking the corner but just enough spin to maintain speed and maintain enough kinetic energy in the drivetrain at the end of the corner. When you are done with the sliding part of the corner the regaining of traction by positioning the body rearwards, when the rear wheel is spinning faster, gives you a slingshot type burst of speed onto the straight.

If you break traction with the rear brake ....... this can never happen ...... so you go very slow around the corner ........ and onto the straight. I'd be surprised if anybody at MGP level is doing that.
bla bla bla if you look at about 50 secs on this vis you will see vdb change down to initiate a backing in slide.

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now you have been proved wrong stfu.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 7 2010, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is where we differ, I don't think that it is a different discussion when one is talking taking a corner as fast as you possibly can, so that you aren't slowing too much, so that you don't get run up the arse of, so that you aren't fighting for last place.

Watch Stoners PI slides ...... its all there, shear technical beauty!
But those are powerslides around a constant radius coner, not backing it in - and the original crux of this concerned the fact that you said you slide when slowing for corners - I am not debating the powerslides that Casey produces. For a good example of backing it in in MotoGP watch again Toni Elias's antics at Estoril '06.

I agree, Casey's slides are indeed sheer technical beauty and a product of his mastery of flat tracking. As I have agreed many times with you Barry, given such a technique, throttle control and body position are everything - and I also agree that is derived from his dirt bike pedigree as it has been for many riders before him.

But you keep deviating from the original debate which was backing it in, which is accomplished form totally different mechanisms to powersliding. You insist on returning to the latter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 8 2010, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But you keep deviating from the original debate which was backing it in, which is accomplished form totally different mechanisms to powersliding. You insist on returning to the latter.

Well you just keep separating your "backing in" with your "sliding out".




What happens in the middle, with your theory



I ain't doing it Arab ................................. its just plain silly!!

And as has been published is a "common misconception" ............ so thats pretty clear, you are misconcieved ...... commonly.


I'm sure there are a bunch of "guys" out there, finding a corner and saying to their mates " hey watch me back it in!!" and then doing the biggest most impressive "kids skid" known to man. But they'd never get around a track fast like that


Try it with Repsol spread all over the track to over emphasise what occurs! ...... is that keeping it OT?

Her is a very handy picture I actually lifted from Kropotkin's excellent forum which I think might be quite helpful in explaining to you what I mean where untold gigabytes of previous posts have otherwise failed Barry.

8989:43688563...53fe1a1e.jpg]

Notice at the end of the home straight - into turn 1 all the riders are under very heavy braking - slowing into the corner. They are not on the throttle, and they are not sliding around a constant or increasing radius corner. Toni is stepped out the most due to a result of engine braking - feathering the clutch having stomped down a couple of cogs, and I would also suggest that in comparison with KRjnr and Vale, perhaps in the shot - perhaps a frame or so later, liberal application of back brake to haul himself up, following such an outrageous outbraking maneuver. Some argued that it wasn't pretty, some called it wild, and it's certainly not as refined as Casey's powerslides that have been mentioned - but it bears no relation to them.

This is not a throttle induced powerslide. This is backing it in - the 'in' being the nub of the argument. Backing it INTO a corner. Not around a corner, or out of a corner. Sure, riders will powerslide into turns on throttle control alone, but like you say these are high speed corners, and do not involve slowing - and this is not what we refer to as backing it in.

Barry you don't seem to understand - I am not exhorting anybody to get on their bike and stamp on the back brake to produce a slide to impress their mates. Riding a flat tracker on an oil slicked dirt track is not backing it in. Why can't you comprehend that? It is sliding off the throttle. Backing in is used on the approach and entry to a corner, and I'm not arguing that it's any better than a throttle induced slide - or even advocating it; I'm simply saying it's a different technique altogether hinging on the downshift and for some, augmented by the use of the rear brake.

I also concur, as I said in an earlier post, currently in Moto GP the technique is all but redundant.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kropotkin @ Mar 7 2010, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe there is something like Stoner's Corollary to Godwin's Law, which states that every discussion on a motorcycle racing forum will eventually turn into an argument about Traction Control.
Don't forget, the Nazis invented TC!  

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 7 2010, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Her is a very handy picture I actually lifted from Kropotkin's excellent forum which I think might be quite helpful in explaining to you what I mean where untold gigabytes of previous posts have otherwise failed Barry.

8989:43688563...53fe1a1e.jpg]

Notice at the end of the home straight - into turn 1 all the riders are under very heavy braking - slowing into the corner. They are not on the throttle, and they are not sliding around a constant or increasing radius corner. Toni is stepped out the most due to a result of engine braking - feathering the clutch having stomped down a couple of cogs, and I would also suggest that in comparison with KRjnr and Vale, perhaps in the shot - perhaps a frame or so later, liberal application of back brake to haul himself up, following such an outrageous outbraking maneuver. Some argued that it wasn't pretty, some called it wild, and it's certainly not as refined as Casey's powerslides that have been mentioned - but it bears no relation to them.

This is not a throttle induced powerslide. This is backing it in - the 'in' being the nub of the argument. Backing it INTO a corner. Not around a corner, or out of a corner. Sure, riders will powerslide into turns on throttle control alone, but like you say these are high speed corners, and do not involve slowing - and this is not what we refer to as backing it in.

Barry you don't seem to understand - I am not exhorting anybody to get on their bike and stamp on the back brake to produce a slide to impress their mates. Riding a flat tracker on an oil slicked dirt track is not backing it in. Why can't you comprehend that? It is sliding off the throttle. Backing in is used on the approach and entry to a corner, and I'm not arguing that it's any better than a throttle induced slide - or even advocating it; I'm simply saying it's a different technique altogether hinging on the downshift and for some, augmented by the use of the rear brake.

I also concur, as I said in an earlier post, currently in Moto GP the technique is all but redundant.
Great picture to illustrate mark. Notice how our special needs student ignored the vid i posted that shows the technique

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Mar 7 2010, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Great picture to illustrate mark. Notice how our special needs student ignored the vid i posted that shows the technique
Barry doesn't even watch WSBk - so it's a fairly safe assumption that he's never come across 'tard coverage - ...... coverage maybe. He wont know .... all about VDB either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry doesn't even watch WSBk - so it's a fairly safe assumption that he's never come across 'tard coverage - ...... coverage maybe. He wont know .... all about VDB either.
Arrab you not going get any where with BM, you better off talking to brick wall mate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Mar 7 2010, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Arrab you not going get any where with BM, you better off talking to brick wall mate.
Or banging my head against one

There was a program on `Motors` tv with Warren Pole learning how to back a motard in,he was being taught by one of the frontrunners in the world champ`s .We need to dig it up as I`m sure it would shed some light on this ,ahem ,debate.Anyone remember watching it?(twas a year or two ago)