Qatar round 1 2010. RACE

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 15 2010, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That wasn't my point at all, I'm not religious and not interested in GOATs and holy wars
I just stated that the 800cc class was the biggest change of them all in recent years, and it surely wasn't engineered to help Valentino Rossi -- that's all.
The biggest argument against dorna trying to help rossi with rule changes is their record of stunning incompetence in this regard; such is their talent in this direction that if they were trying to help him they would probably stop even him . However whilst rossi has (rightly) disapproved of the 800 formula from fairly soon after its inception, I am not aware that he opposed it prior to its introduction. Certainly yamaha with whom he presumably has some influence did not. Ironically to my knowledge ducati was the only manufacturer to oppose the formula.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Apr 15 2010, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, how many races did Ducati win in the 990 era? They were the fastest bike from day one, yet Cappers only managed six wins in four seasons. Top speed is great, no doubt. And it's certainly an exaggeration to say it falls well down the order of priorities. But I don't think there are many engineers who would place it above handling, stability and usable power.

Ducati were rolling on Bridgestone before it was the to tire to have. Hard to say that Ducati's obsession with top speed was unfruitful. More difficult to bring lessons learned during the tire war into the era of the control tire.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 15 2010, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That wasn't my point at all, I'm not religious and not interested in GOATs and holy wars
I just stated that the 800cc class was the biggest change of them all in recent years, and it surely wasn't engineered to help Valentino Rossi -- that's all.

Your right, they never went to Rossi for his "Opinion" on the move to the 800's, nor did he publicly come out in support for the move

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Apr 15 2010, 04:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex it could have been that Nicky was in shock like a lot of his fans were, and didn't realize he had the pace to hang, maybe he will take some confidence from Qatar and we will see an agressive Hayden for the remainder of the season? I know, I know...unlikely to happen but I can dream can't I?

BTW...Nick and the offseason...my guess, not eating and getting skinny! Nick's weight(or lack of weight) could explain some performance gains at Qatar.

Weight is definitely part of it. Several reports have linked Nicky to a rigorous crash diet and training regimen during the off season; although, this may have as much to do with alleviating arm pump as it does with improving performance. The Yamaha stable isn't populated with small 250 kids so I don't think it is necessary to weight 60kg or less to run at the front.

However, I think Nicky's performance is attributable to much more than weight loss. It really looks like Nick, Roger, and Tommy all went out for some track days on Aprilia 250s and Nick was forced to follow them around until he learned how to ride on the front tire again. His lines are completely different, and his setup has got to be completely different. He turns in much more aggressively and he doesn't steer the bike with the rear wheel by opening the throttle. The rear is bolted to the deck like he's riding with a rearward weight bias like the other aliens at the front.

Nicky had made many allusions to changing his mental approach and his riding style during several OTT interviews with Dave Williams. Much ado about nothing, since he's said the same thing every season since entering MotoGP, but obviously he's been doing some very serious work.

Nicky let people through, recovered his rhythm, and then responded several laps later. Who is this guy? Certainly not the same guy who tries to ride around the outside every time some dives down the inside on the brakes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Apr 15 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, how many races did Ducati win in the 990 era? They were the fastest bike from day one, yet Cappers only managed six wins in four seasons. Top speed is great, no doubt. And it's certainly an exaggeration to say it falls well down the order of priorities. But I don't think there are many engineers who would place it above handling, stability and usable power.


As usual, sir, a pleasure to read.


True. Michelin have said they have no interest in a closed competition.
Not being combative, but fourth on the list is well down the order. If you really think about it, what else is there that wouldnt fall into the category of handling, stability, and usable power.

Front and rear suspension = Check

Swing arm= Check

Frame Check

Electronics= Check

Braking= Check

Aero=Check

Did Nick make a slight mistake on that last corner to let Dovi take 3rd? I just saw the post race interviews and Dovi said something along these lines. When I first saw it I thought Nick was trying to throw Dovi off his rythm in order to disrupt the drive that he was getting off that final corner. As you can see it looks like Hayden backs off slightly causing Dovi to back off as well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 15 2010, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Nick make a slight mistake on that last corner to let Dovi take 3rd? I just saw the post race interviews and Dovi said something along these lines. When I first saw it I thought Nick was trying to throw Dovi off his rythm in order to disrupt the drive that he was getting off that final corner. As you can see it looks like Hayden backs off slightly causing Dovi to back off as well.
Not sure if it was a mistake, but more like that was the weak point of the whole track for his setup.He said that the last turn was where he was losing time all weekend. I was hoping he would suck Dovi in and brake check him like Rossi did to Stoner at Laguna. Maybe that is what he tried and was not successful.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 15 2010, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Nick make a slight mistake on that last corner to let Dovi take 3rd? I just saw the post race interviews and Dovi said something along these lines. When I first saw it I thought Nick was trying to throw Dovi off his rythm in order to disrupt the drive that he was getting off that final corner. As you can see it looks like Hayden backs off slightly causing Dovi to back off as well.

I think he just covered the inside which caused him to block Dovi at the apex. Didn't help though b/c the Honda is a rocketship in a straight line.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 15 2010, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The biggest argument against dorna trying to help rossi with rule changes is their record of stunning incompetence in this regard; such is their talent in this direction that if they were trying to help him they would probably stop even him . However whilst rossi has (rightly) disapproved of the 800 formula from fairly soon after its inception, I am not aware that he opposed it prior to its introduction. Certainly yamaha with whom he presumably has some influence did not. Ironically to my knowledge ducati was the only manufacturer to oppose the formula.

It is well known who pushed the 800cc formula more, and which rider they had in mind. It was Honda, and the 800cc was meant for jockey Pedrosa.

Ironically, the clever formula backfired on them in the form of Stoner, Bridgestone and Ducati.

Conspiracy theories are not baseless, since this world is not lacking cunning and eager manipulators; but however astute, they are not ominiscient nor all-powerful, thanks to the gods, and their schemes very often work against them, so that in the end it is down to the usual chaos management for all

Does it show Dorna as mental or fair-minded that they have tried to give three riders & three manufacturers each an advantage?

Or does it show something else completely?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 15 2010, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think he just covered the inside which caused him to block Dovi at the apex. Didn't help though b/c the Honda is a rocketship in a straight line.

Nick made the exact same move on Dovi with 5 or 6 laps to go and led over the line.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 15 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nick made the exact same move on Dovi with 5 or 6 laps to go and led over the line.

Well yeah, but he can't leave the door open in the final turn on the last lap. In theory, if you protect the inside and block your opponent, you can still win the drag race to the line. However, Dovi's Honda proved to have a small advantage off the bottom of the rev range, perhaps it was due to the torqueometer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 15 2010, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your right, they never went to Rossi for his "Opinion" on the move to the 800's, nor did he publicly come out in support for the move

Surely, Rossi did not need anything like the 800cc formula. He was pretty comfortable with the 1000s. We all began 2007 expecting a very strong challenge from Pedrosa, remember?

We all knew very well who the new formula was favoring the most. The proof is that nobody in the paddock was expecting the 2006 World Champion, Nicky Hayden, to repeat his performance... All expert eyes were on Pedrobot vs Vale. The IRTA tests in Jerez seemed to confirm that.
But then, out of the blue, whack! There came Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 15 2010, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Surely, Rossi did not need anything like the 800cc formula. He was pretty comfortable with the 1000s. We all began 2007 expecting a very strong challenge from Pedrosa, remember?

Funilly enough Honda's 'plan' kind of worked... There guy beat Rossi! Didn't bank on Ducati though did they

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 15 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Surely, Rossi did not need anything like the 800cc formula. He was pretty comfortable with the 1000s. We all began 2007 expecting a very strong challenge from Pedrosa, remember?

Of course Rossi didn't need the 800's but nor was he opposed to it. We know what happens when their is something that Rossi doesn't like. You think that Rossi would have willingly gone along with a formula strictly being created for Pedrosa and not said a word.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 15 2010, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funilly enough Honda's 'plan' kind of worked... There guy beat Rossi! Didn't bank on Ducati though did they

One more reason to appreciate Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 15 2010, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funilly enough Honda's 'plan' kind of worked... There guy beat Rossi! Didn't bank on Ducati though did they

Good piont. Although Rossi didn't need much on that last race in 07 though. All he needed was 1 point and Perdrosa needed the win. Rossi DNF'd and Dani won the race. If the championship was on the line I think Rossi would have beaten Pedrosa in points.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 16 2010, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course Rossi didn't need the 800's but nor was he opposed to it. We know what happens when their is something that Rossi doesn't like. You think that Rossi would have willingly gone along with a formula strictly being created for Pedrosa and not said a word.
I know he's the goat and all but I don't think he has a crystal ball and can see into the future......it's borderline impossible to disapprove a formula before even riding/racing an 800........you are trying to villify vr as usual but your basically saying that he should have been objecting to the 800s before he even rode one to make his objections after the fact seem more justfied-- ........!!

The only basis he could have had to object to the 800s back in 2006 would have been his liking for dthe 990s, but of course dornas WOMD excuse 'they are getting too fast' pulled the safety string.......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Apr 15 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nick made the exact same move on Dovi with 5 or 6 laps to go and led over the line.
Yea, but it was by the same margin he lost 3rd - about 2 feet.