Qatar round 1 2010. RACE

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 13 2010, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did anybody catch Wind Tunnel on Speed. I heard that Nicky was on it.
No. Villopoto was on it
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 13 2010, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's pretty much what I posted, and of course it's yamahas problem or maybe they are the clever ones? It's a long season with six engines........

There just seems to be a lot of hype about how fast the duck is. I'm just saying that it's nothing new at Qatar. We will have to see if it continues or if it goes the same way as the past two seasons, judging by the strength of fiat Yamaha I'd say the latter is more likely
<


You pretty much said that Yamaha were fast with no fuel regs (which has been the case going into every season). The Yamaha is slow b/c they are competing under the new engines rules. Time will tell if Yamaha are playing it extra safe.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Apr 13 2010, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>kk.i get these as fastest sectors in quali for casey

25.076..t1 lap 19
29.733..t2 lap 15
28.259..t3 lap 18
31.579..t4 lap 18

114.647

1.54.647

actual fastest lap quali

1.55.007

just trying to get where jules has got it
If you didn't know, all of these results including sectional times for every lap in practice, warm up and the race and the margins for the whole field in every lap of the race are in the latest results section under "analysis" and "analysis by lap" for every gp on the dorna site/motogp.com (for season pass holders at least).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Apr 13 2010, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, it was a redundant statement induced by too much Sauvignon blanc
<

I hope it was a sancerre. That grassy/herbaceous NZ stuff will rot your mitochondrial DNA.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 14 2010, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you didn't know, all of these results including sectional times for every lap in practice, warm up and the race and the margins for the whole field in every lap of the race are in the latest results section under "analysis" and "analysis by lap" for every gp on the dorna site/motogp.com (for season pass holders at least).

yeah ty mike
i got it there i just cant see how jules came up with his info
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Apr 14 2010, 05:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah ty mike
i got it there i just cant see how jules came up with his info
added up best sectional times maybe.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 14 2010, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope it was a sancerre. That grassy/herbaceous NZ stuff will rot your mitochondrial DNA.

Yes, I,ve heard that all mitochondrial DNA in New Zealand has been destroyed............bar a few remnants salvaged to create zombie like humanoids using a scientific process called "Talpatronics"
<


(They have also been cloning their All Blacks since pre-history)
 
Yamaha MotoGP boss Davide Brivio has admitted that his team needs to find more power, but is concerned that the 2010 engine use restrictions could hamper its efforts to do so.

Although Yamaha started the 2010 season with a one-two in Qatar for Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo, the M1 appeared to lack straightline performance compared to its rivals - with Honda in particular seeming to enjoy a power advantage.

With each rider only allowed to use six engines during the 2010 campaign, Brivio is concerned that catching up could be difficult.

"We struggle on the straights," Brivio admitted to Gazzetta dello Sport. "Let's hope we can quickly find some small solution to patch the situation.

"But because of the new rule that forces us to use no more than six engines for the season, finding an immediate solution may be a bit of a problem. We must take into consideration the available units."

Rossi's bike stopped just after the chequered flag on Sunday night, having run out of fuel. Brivio confirmed Rossi's suspicion that this was simply because excessive wheelspin during the race had used more fuel, but said it had not been a drama and Yamaha's in-built automatic fuel management system had not been required.

"If the bike slides, you lose grip and the bike consumes more fuel," he said.

"We have a system that calculates fuel consumption during the race and leaves you with a sufficient amount to reach the end of the race. If it calculates that it's consuming too much, it steps in by reducing the power.

"There are tracks more problematic than others, and it has occurred in the past that we finished right on the limit. It also depends on the combination between track and temperature: when it's cold you consume more, less so when it's hot.
 
Cheese and the Champions League

say cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese


By Matt Roberts
BBC Sport in Qatar

After consistently lapping half a second quicker than his rivals whilst dominating every single practice session in Qatar, one Italian journalist suggested to the lactose-intolerant Casey Stoner that the only way the other riders could stop him in the race was with a cheese sandwich.

As it turned out, the banana skin that brought the flying Australian down to earth was not a cheese sandwich but an uncharacteristic lapse in concentration, which came at an inopportune moment for Stoner and ruined an otherwise perfect weekend.

"It was my mistake and I've apologised to the team," said Stoner after his lap-five crash.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Apr 13 2010, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>just trying to get where jules has got it

Well i think he made a mistake

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 13 2010, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have done my fair share of defending Haydens honor over the years myself. In time, the haters ended up hating Stoner because he took away the birthright of Rossi in 2007.

I think almost all of the hate for Nicky was transfered to Stoner in 07 when people saw that Rossi being beaten was not a one off. The wisest people at the time predicted that the test of time would work in Nickies favour, and it has.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 14 2010, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There just seems to be a lot of hype about how fast the duck is. I'm just saying that it's nothing new at Qatar. We will have to see if it continues or if it goes the same way as the past two seasons, judging by the strength of fiat Yamaha I'd say the latter is more likely
<


I haven't heard much about the Ducati having some incredible speed, but it seems the word is that is a mch improved package. It's easier to ride, its better on its tyres and Nicky can ride it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 13 2010, 01:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your theory was proved wrong right before your eyes,the 2 slowest bikes among the front runners in a straight line finished 1-2. Better power delivery and handling is what wins races. The statement in bold earns you the captain obvious award of the weak [week]. The problem with that statement is that over the accumulated distance of the race, the better handling bikes with better power delivery made time in between the straights that the faster bikes ultimately could not make up. Put it this way, would you rather have a bike with great handling and power delivery that picks up a couple of hundreths out of every corner, or a bike that is 6 mph faster at the end of a straight.
Last time I checked those bikes were not totally controlled by computers and the general opinion seems to be that the bike is 20-30%, the rest is that other part called human. I don't think we saw two superior bikes winning that race YMMV.

It sounds as if you are talking about MC Rally. These bikes are racing not starting with 60sec between each other, the faster bike take the start and that's it, there has to be a major class difference in riders if the one with the slower, better handling bike could win with a substantial speed difference. You might have noticed that it is not possible to ride through other bikes on the racing line, if it was I would want the better handling bike, but until they invent that phase shifter making that possible I'll go with the faster bike at any race day. Personally I like the better handling bike but if you wanna win you pass the others on the straights and block them in the curves. That tactic is as old as racing is.
Check out the near the end of the stroker period with the 2-stroke v-twins still around. Lighteningly fast in the corners and often high up in qualifying. They hardly ever won reces.hit the podium.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>A bike with an advantage in top speed can often beat a bike capable of 2 seconds a lap better time with equal rider material
I dont even know how to respond to that. We are talking a 6 mph difference in speed, not 60. Do you have any idea how much faster a bike would have to be in a straight line to make it equal to a bike that is capable of 2 seconds a lap faster.

Thats just because you haven't seen races on really tight tracks or really huge top speed advantages. It's not the typical GP environment I talk about, and don't even try to push that into the 6mph envelope, I was obviously not including those constraints. It was a general observation so try club racing with two different classes out in one race. You can easily be slowed down m ore than two seconds a lap by a bad rider with a fast bike. But again it will all depend on the conditions.
From the way you express yourself you seem again to be in the Rally mode. I'm not talking about how much time a faster bike must gain on the stratight to be equally fast but how much time the better handling bike loose behind the fast one. It will be stuck behind most of the race going slower than possible held up by the other bike. Only two things are necessary for a faster bike: pass or hold off the slower bike on the straight. The rest of the track he block the other bike as long as possible.
Rider of the better handling bike have a much more difficult task. To pass into a turn and increase the lead enough to avoid re-pass on the straights. We've seen that fail often enough.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 13 2010, 06:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, ur full of .... as usual buddy. U try to explain but ur words ring hollow to the undisputed reality on the track. We already went over this, u wer wrong in 07 & now again. U dont learn well do u. I proved time and time again that having the fastest bike doesnt mean jack ..... U tried to tell us how Stoner won cuz of monster speed in 07 but didnt explain why Rossi was on his ... the entire race. Again today ur saying the same ......... Here is what actually happened: Ross had the "slowest" bike but won the race! This previous sentence should be enuf to end ur rediculous argument. But i know it wont.

Well said from someone who has never raced. In case you didn't notice you didn't prove jack .... J.
This is not my invention, it's still racings ABC. This is not even Rookie stuff.
I've been in the situation much more extreme then described so don't tell me what's possible or not. But as I have no video recorded history of that:
Check out what was the reality of the 2-stroke twins. Was it one win by a twin since the V-fours and cubes were introduced? Maybe a few in rain conditions over the years. Anyway, they were blindingly fast in the corners and often qualified high up but in the race the never stood a chance. Is that something I'm dreaming up as well?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 14 2010, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if you wanna win you pass the others on the straights and block them in the curves. That tactic is as old as racing is.
Sorry Babel that you haven't raced thing don't wash... I have raced and I too believe you are full of it on this one. I want my racing bike to deliver the most USABLE power available AND be the best handling bike. In my racing experience I made probably about 90% of my overtaking under breaking or in the corners... If you think the only way you can win a race is passing on the straight and blocking you are probably not as complete a racer as you believe.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 14 2010, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well said from someone who has never raced.

Has it not occured to you that taking lessons you learnt racing and applying them to motogp is not particularly appropriate. Mick D also has some racing experience yet offers a very different opinion to yourself, so I don't believe your opinion has any extra credibility. Motogp is a different league to even national level proffessional racing.

It's fairly well documented that when Rossi was asked to evaluate new motors for the M1 he chose the slightly less powerfull option, sacrificing some straight line speed/power for something more rideable. You may point to Ducati's 2007 title to counter this but that is 1 championship to Yamahas 4, and Ducati have since changed their bike to fall into line with this generally accepted wisdom. JB and Rossi are also fairly open about the importance of braking stability in their setup, because thats where most passes actually happen in motogp.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 14 2010, 06:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Last time I checked those bikes were not totally controlled by computers and the general opinion seems to be that the bike is 20-30%, the rest is that other part called human. I don't think we saw two superior bikes winning that race YMMV.

It sounds as if you are talking about MC Rally. These bikes are racing not starting with 60sec between each other, the faster bike take the start and that's it, there has to be a major class difference in riders if the one with the slower, better handling bike could win with a substantial speed difference. You might have noticed that it is not possible to ride through other bikes on the racing line, if it was I would want the better handling bike, but until they invent that phase shifter making that possible I'll go with the faster bike at any race day. Personally I like the better handling bike but if you wanna win you pass the others on the straights and block them in the curves. That tactic is as old as racing is.
Check out the near the end of the stroker period with the 2-stroke v-twins still around. Lighteningly fast in the corners and often high up in qualifying. They hardly ever won reces.hit the podium.


No comment needed,that pretty much sums it up.


Thats just because you haven't seen races on really tight tracks or really huge top speed advantages. It's not the typical GP environment I talk about, and don't even try to push that into the 6mph envelope, I was obviously not including those constraints. It was a general observation so try club racing with two different classes out in one race. You can easily be slowed down m ore than two seconds a lap by a bad rider with a fast bike. But again it will all depend on the conditions.
From the way you express yourself you seem again to be in the Rally mode. I'm not talking about how much time a faster bike must gain on the stratight to be equally fast but how much time the better handling bike loose behind the fast one. It will be stuck behind most of the race going slower than possible held up by the other bike. Only two things are necessary for a faster bike: pass or hold off the slower bike on the straight. The rest of the track he block the other bike as long as possible.
Rider of the better handling bike have a much more difficult task. To pass into a turn and increase the lead enough to avoid re-pass on the straights. We've seen that fail often enough.

No comment needed,that pretty much sums it up.




We are talking about Moto GP,not some club race down at Bubba's RunWhat you Brung ,where Jr is running his tricked out GS 500 against Billy Bobs new R1.Someone tried to give you an out on the goofy 2 second comment 'A bike with an advantage in top speed can often beat a bike capable of 2 seconds a lap better time with equal rider material' You should have taken it.Instead you try to justify said goofy comment by saying ' You can easily be slowed down m ore than two seconds a lap by a bad rider with a fast bike.Again, we are talking Moto GP.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 14 2010, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>a bike with an advantage in top speed can often beat a bike capable of 2 seconds a lap better time with equal rider material' You should have taken it.Instead you try to justify said goofy comment by saying ' You can easily be slowed down m ore than two seconds a lap by a bad rider with a fast bike. Again we are talking motogp.
Aprilia cube.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 14 2010, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Babel that you haven't raced thing don't wash... I have raced and I too believe you are full of it on this one. I want my racing bike to deliver the most USABLE power available AND be the best handling bike. In my racing experience I made probably about 90% of my overtaking under breaking or in the corners... If you think the only way you can win a race is passing on the straight and blocking you are probably not as complete a racer as you believe.
Go back to my original post and you will fin USABLE power there.
It's not about what I prefer (power or handling), it's about what gains the best advantage when two bikes can reach the same laptime. Again, the twin vs four battle in motoGP 2-stroke is the perfect example. Given two equally fast riders you can see that the twin might even have a better lap time in Q while the more powerful, heavier V4 win 99 of 100 races.
Again, it's basic and not at all controversial. I honestly don't hope anyone but Junmkie and Povol dispute that.
Please also note that I picked this up from Povol when he said the better handling bike were always preferable. That's nothing but .......... Logic and history proves him wrong.
BTW. of course you stuff it on the inside on the brakes, that does not mean that power didn't help, just that you didn't have long enough straight for a clean pass before braking. Even with a heavier, worse handling bike you can take advantage of stealing the line into a turn. Our experience is the same but I still would not mind to have the power to straight out accelerate passed my competition. But then again the ultimate victory is of course winning when underpowered.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Apr 13 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He probably didnt think Dovi was going to be as strong as he was. Rossi backed of some and dovi passed him on the front straight, where he(dovi) was strong. Rossi probably gave one of his classic "fock!!" and stepped it back up. My opinion.

Yeah - I don't think anyone expected any of the Honda riders to be sorted out enough
to fight for the podium with all the dismal pre-season reports. But Dovi's talented riding
doesn't have any bearing on what we were talking about - that being the issue of Stoner's
ability or willingness to duke it out. Anyhoo that being said... I'm impressed by Dovi as in
his days on the 250s he always seemed like an "also-ran" and he's turning out be a real
contender.
 
Hahaha, I love it when Babel talks himself into a corner then proceeds to talk himself into circles, thinking he is making progress. Ah, I guess that's what makes this forum so much fun. Cheers buddy, you know despite you being wrong often, we love you. (sorta)
<


Babel, in 07, as I recall, I think only once did the fastest bike during the event win the race, that was actually Pedrosa. As Tom said, Ducati has now tried to come more in line with the rideability of the bike as oppose to straightline speed. As Micky said, handling trumps outright top speed for which I agree. And I have also read Mr. Burgess state he prefers giving up outride top speed for handling. These are just a few pesky facts that point to the fact that outright top speed is not as important as you think my friend. Did you see Dovi pass Rossi on the straight only for Rossi to have the confidence in his braking and handling to maintain the advantage? Ok, I'm about done arguing in this point. As a 'non-motogp' racer, I admit, this is all speculation on my part.
 

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